ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

[Penelope]

bbm - what types of disappearances are you referring to in this sentence? Those that happened in parks/in the wilderness specifically?

I am talking about disappearances of children in National Parks/Forests - specifically ones where they seem to have wandered off. Sorry if my sentence was unclear.

 

[flourish]

I thought dad said it was clear. So clear you could see the bottom from a helicopter. If its muddy, why were they so sure he wasn't there so early on? I still think he's in the creek.

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I think it's one of those clear with a very silty bottom type things and the very presence of the searchers lifted the silt and made it cloudy? That's what I thought of. I grew up in that neck of the woods. Idk. ?


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[ninij9]

I think it's one of those clear with a very silty bottom type things and the very presence of the searchers lifted the silt and made it cloudy? That's what I thought of. I grew up in that neck of the woods. Idk. ?


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Thanks for the clarification Flourish

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[Jules71]

I am assuming the closest store to their campsite would be in Leadore which is a 40 min. drive via forest rd 172/105. Can anyone confirm this?

If they hadn't left the campsite since 1 (according to dad during interview) does that mean they got back by 1 and never left again or does that mean they left to go to the store at 1?

According to my map the distance from the campsite to the reservoir on foot is 0.2 miles and 5 minutes. It appears to be a straight shot up the creek that runs along the campsite. In the video showing the campsite/creek, the direction the guy said the parents went to explore leads to the reservoir.


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[TxJan1971]

I am assuming the closest store to their campsite would be in Leadore which is a 40 min. drive via forest rd 172/105. Can anyone confirm this?

If they hadn't left the campsite since 1 (according to dad during interview) does that mean they got back by 1 and never left again or does that mean they left to go to the store at 1?

According to my map the distance from the campsite to the reservoir on foot is 0.2 miles and 5 minutes. It appears to be a straight shot up the creek that runs along the campsite. In the video showing the campsite/creek, the direction the guy said the parents went to explore leads to the reservoir.


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It's my understanding they went to the store at some time, got to the camp at some time, and never left the camp after 1:00 p.m. (until dad left to get cell service and call 911 at 2:35)

If they did only leave the camp at 1:00 to go to the store, it's a 40 minute drive. They would have arrived at the store at 1:40 p.m. Even if they only stayed one minute at the store, it's another 40 minutes back to the camp which now would be 2:20 p.m. - past the time the dad says they went exploring for 10 minutes (he said 2:00), then 10 minutes exploring - then searching for 20 minutes (now 2:30) and then called 911 at 2:35.

JMO

It has to be that they never left the camp after 1:00 if that timeline is accurate.

 

[concernedmother]

I am assuming the closest store to their campsite would be in Leadore which is a 40 min. drive via forest rd 172/105. Can anyone confirm this?

If they hadn't left the campsite since 1 (according to dad during interview) does that mean they got back by 1 and never left again or does that mean they left to go to the store at 1?

According to my map the distance from the campsite to the reservoir on foot is 0.2 miles and 5 minutes. It appears to be a straight shot up the creek that runs along the campsite. In the video showing the campsite/creek, the direction the guy said the parents went to explore leads to the reservoir.


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If Deorr headed toward the reservoir he would have met them coming back. Which brings me back to him being lodged under something in the creek. jmo

 

[ClaireNC]

I am assuming the closest store to their campsite would be in Leadore which is a 40 min. drive via forest rd 172/105. Can anyone confirm this?

If they hadn't left the campsite since 1 (according to dad during interview) does that mean they got back by 1 and never left again or does that mean they left to go to the store at 1?

According to my map the distance from the campsite to the reservoir on foot is 0.2 miles and 5 minutes. It appears to be a straight shot up the creek that runs along the campsite. In the video showing the campsite/creek, the direction the guy said the parents went to explore leads to the reservoir.

I couldn't find any stores other than the one in Leadore. We haven't had any confirmation from the media or anybody local that it is the closest. I also think it looks like the reservoir is really close to the campsite.

 

[jashrema]

This went up a couple of hours ago..don't know if its been posted yet, shows the divers, dogs, area.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-deorr-lemhi-no-trace/30262877/

I do have a couple points of confusion if someone could clear up

1. Dep. Sheriff Penner said they have asked people not to come and help as it could throw of dogs scenting and they have expanded the search now to BELOW where they were camping.

2. Dad goes off on ATV BELOW where they were camping to search, driving all over.

Wouldn't this throw off the scenting of dogs? If he has handled anything of Deorrs, (particularly his blankie) he is carrying his scent? Why do you think he is able to go searching by himself? Confusing to me..someone with knowledge of dogs may be able to answer

Also, Dep. is not a detective, Are there detectives on this case? What are their names?

 

[travelbug]

BBM
Video of campground, creek, and where parents went exploring (According to the reporter)
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/a-closer-look-the-campground-where-deorr-kunz-disappeared/

Of note on the video:
at 0:11 - shows creek flowing
at 0:51-1:05 - shows campsite area - last place DeOrr seen, steep dropoff to the creek
at 1:22 indicates direction where parents went off to explore - away from the campsite

It appears to me that the direction the reporter indicates the parents went is not near the creek; however, dad did state they were only gone about 10 minutes and on the way back he stopped by the creek, saw some minnows, & thought DeOrr might like to see them etc. -- so we know at some point dad was by the creek since he mentioned seeing the fish.

Oh dear, that drop-off above the creek is very concerning. The little guy could have so easily slipped and tumbled down to the creek in a moments time. It's also worrisome that we're hearing nothing about Grandpa's friend.

 

[Elainera]

I am talking about disappearances of children in National Parks/Forests - specifically ones where they seem to have wandered off. Sorry if my sentence was unclear.

Your sentence was clear, I just wanted to confirm that I understood it correctly.

So in these types of missing cases you found that it is very rare that the parents were involved in the child's disappearance. Do you think involvement of the parents is notably higher when children go missing in cities, for example?

 

[concernedmother]

This went up a couple of hours ago..don't know if its been posted yet, shows the divers, dogs, area.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-deorr-lemhi-no-trace/30262877/

I do have a couple points of confusion if someone could clear up

1. Dep. Sheriff Penner said they have asked people not to come and help as it could throw of dogs scenting and they have expanded the search now to BELOW where they were camping.

2. Dad goes off on ATV BELOW where they were camping to search, driving all over.

Wouldn't this throw off the scenting of dogs? If he has handled anything of Deorrs, (particularly his blankie) he is carrying his scent? Why do you think he is able to go searching by himself? Confusing to me..someone with knowledge of dogs may be able to answer

Also, Dep. is not a detective, Are there detectives on this case? What are their names?

Actually thats a good question. Could that be why the dogs hit at the reservoir? Dad was holding the blanket on NG and he said it was Deorrs blanket. Wouldnt that throw the dogs off?

 

[Jules71]

Wanted to share this as a picture for those who haven't seen the area. You can see the creek and the reservoir. According to Dad the campsite sits just below the reservoir. It's considered the lower campground and there are only two camp sites. The upper campground has five camp sites.

Since the reservoir is above the campsite then the creek would flow opposite the reservoir, right? So from reservoir to the campsite and on down. My very first thought would be him falling down that bank into the creek. Have they thoroughly searched down creek?

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[Elainera]

This went up a couple of hours ago..don't know if its been posted yet, shows the divers, dogs, area.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-deorr-lemhi-no-trace/30262877/

I do have a couple points of confusion if someone could clear up

1. Dep. Sheriff Penner said they have asked people not to come and help as it could throw of dogs scenting and they have expanded the search now to BELOW where they were camping.

2. Dad goes off on ATV BELOW where they were camping to search, driving all over.

Wouldn't this throw off the scenting of dogs? If he has handled anything of Deorrs, (particularly his blankie) he is carrying his scent? Why do you think he is able to go searching by himself? Confusing to me..someone with knowledge of dogs may be able to answer

Also, Dep. is not a detective, Are there detectives on this case? What are their names?

Aren't they cadaver dogs? I think they said they brought cadaver dogs in? They would not be confused if they smelled something Deorr used, they wouldn't be concerned at all with any individual person, they will only search for scent of a decomposing body, any body.

 

[katydid23]

I thinbk that is the most probable scenario: Deorr toddles off towards his parents....veers off to the creek area and falls down an embankment. He is under water before they know he is missing...


[ well, not technically because supposedly Grandpa knew he had vanished instantly, and apparently did nothing about it, just assumed a two year old was capable fo finding his way through a campground to his parents who had hiked ten minutes ahead... ]

 

[TxJan1971]

Local News 8's Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/LocalNews8/posts/10153489202593872

***
I went back to the beginning and was reading posts. I saw this link/photo of DeOrr Jr (Post #2) and began to wonder. Anyone know "when" this pic was taken of DeOrr? Was it taken the same day he went missing or was this taken at perhaps another camping trip?

 

[Jules71]

I really think grandpa had no idea he was supposed to watch little Deorr thus the reason he didn't thinking he was missing. He thought he was with his parents. I'm not buying that he was watching him and little Deorr disappeared or went after his parents. Grandpa didn't know he was missing when Dad came back and asked where he was. He didn't know he was responsible for him and therefore was not hollering for him or looking for him when Dad got back to the campsite.

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[katydid23]

I really think grandpa had no idea he was supposed to watch little Deorr thus the reason he didn't thinking he was missing. He thought he was with his parents. I'm not buying that he was watching him and little Deorr disappeared or went after his parents. Grandpa didn't know he was missing when Dad came back and asked where he was. He didn't know he was responsible for him and therefore was not hollering for him or looking for him when Dad got back to the campsite.

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I think you might be right. Maybe Deorr was sitting happily at the campfire next to Gramps, and the parents thought it was a great opportunity to explore a bit while Deorr was preoccupied. If it hadnt been in a campground, but happened that way at their own home, it would not have been a problem. :cry:

I think you might be right because I cannot understand a scenario where Gramps is watching the baby, he vanishes, and then no one immediately begins calling out and searching. It does not make sense that he would just assume a 2 yr old could find his way through the woods to his family.

 

[SweetT]

I think the toddler went after his parents while they were still in eyesight so grandpa assumed he was with parents but he never actually caught up. .

 

[teeandcee]

***
I went back to the beginning and was reading posts. I saw this link/photo of DeOrr Jr (Post #2) and began to wonder. Anyone know "when" this pic was taken of DeOrr? Was it taken the same day he went missing or was this taken at perhaps another camping trip?

That photo in particular breaks my heart. He looks so little and vulnerable.

I think the toddler went after his parents while they were still in eyesight so grandpa assumed he was with parents but he never actually caught up. .

Somehow that makes it seem even more tragic if it was that close.

 

[TxJan1971]

FWIW, information I found from the link/video below:

00:17 - As far as the nearest store, this link shows a photo at 00:17 of "Stage Shop" which is the name of a convenience store I previously found when I tried to find names of the nearest store to the campground. It's located in Leadore on 100 Railroad. Since they showed a photo in the video of this store, I am "assuming" this may be the convenience store they were at.

01:57 (and a bit after this segment) - discussion about why an Amber Alert wasn't issued

02:14 - same photo of DeOrr I just asked about a few posts earlier. I wonder if that photo of DeOrr was taken the same day he went missing, because IF (and that's a BIG IF) it is the same day DeOrr went missing, 1) he is wearing different clothes, 2) he is by a large body of water (is this by the reservoir?), and 3) he is holding a ball. If the pic was taken the same day, I was wondering what time they went that close to the water (reservoir?) and if it may have been between 1 and 2, and then they all went back to the camp/tent/grandpa and at 2:00 maybe he toddled back to the area of the water - dropped his ball... chased after it... ? Then again, it may be from a different day, different camping outing.

02:41 - news reporter states: "...no evidence of a wild animal attack..." but then she added: "an adult sock was found in an area searched numerous times before..."

http://www.localnews8.com/news/search-contiunes-for-missing-two-year-old-in-lemhi-county/34110688