ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

[Ragamuffin]

Looks like maybe they ruled out Mountain Lion in that case and were down to murder or exposure http://www.mountainlion.org/newsstory.asp?news_id=258

Oh wow, I hadn't seen that, thanks! Last news reports I remember were about the marks on the bone and skull, and I suppose they must have just assumed it was a cougar that dragged him off.

That changes things, for sure!

 

[iamnotagolem]

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer but I think statistics are important to keep in mind when coming up with theories. Mountain lion attacks are extremely rare, very statistically unlikely, although not impossible. A young child is a more likely target as they are tiny and easy for the cat to carry off.

Mountain lion attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America

The chance of Deorr being abducted also extremely unlikely, probably less likely than being attacked by a mountain lion merely due to the location he was when he went missing.

 

[Jules71]

In the video Dad says they went down to the store as a family earlier in the day to get some things.

I'm going back to listen to that part again.

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So the reporter asked if Jessica wanted to clear up any rumors and she started taking about the store clerk saying she saw a gentleman and a blonde boy matching the description who was filthy and bawling with a black truck. She did not make reference to the clerk seeing her. However the Dad says they went down there as a family earlier.

Also re: the EMT bag the woman off screen asked "did you tell him about the emt bag"? Then she said because we really need to address that. Jessica says they don't want things twisted.

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[ninij9]

I was at the salmon Challis nation forest website, there are many different camping options or you could choose to camp in open areas without facilities. My first question is oes anyone know if they camped in one of he six different campgrounds or did they just pick a spot in the forest? To make it even more confusing inside each named camp zone are multiple named camp grounds. Only the Lost River Ranger District zone has a campground called Timber Creek. Inside timber creek are 12 campsites. I'm only asking because I want to see an exact aerial of the site. If someone had posted it I missed it. Thanks

Edited to add : this is the campground I saw posted previously. It doesn't look like a "bowl" either. I can't picture dad's description. This looks like alot of forest.

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[JeannaT]

BBM

I'm still on the fence, though I'm leaning toward tragic wandering-away. Still....that bolded part above sort of bugs me. "He was going to be good" implies that he wasn't always "good." In fact, he was recently fussy at the store with Dad. That one little phrase stands out to me an emphasis that Dad wasn't happy with the little boy at the time and perhaps even implying that the boy wasn't, in fact, "good."

I could totally be over-analyzing this, I realize that. My main curiosity at the moment is why the dad and the boy were at the store. Why did they leave camp and when did they return?

I also agree that if it were a mountain lion, it was fast and quiet. If it were wandering off, it was probably a drowning. Otherwise, the little boy would've cried out when he heard his family looking for him.

JMO.

I hear parents say that a lot. Okay, we'll be back in a little while, you be good for grandpa, okay? Do what grandpa tells you, ok?

Because 2 year olds surely aren't always "good" especially out of their parent's sight, and with a campfire.

 

[Aeronomy]

Transcript between the 7:00 and 8:00 minute marks which discusses the store.

Reporter: Is there any rumors that you've seen or anything you want to clear up, Jessica?

JM: I just . . . Somebody at the store, um, in Leadore, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only . . .

DK: Here's the problem.

JM: . . . other . . .

DK: My pickup truck's black.

JM: [indicating DK] He drives a black truck.

DK: As a family we went down to get some, to get a few things.

Reporter: So it could have been you?

JM: Earlier, it was earlier that day.

DK: It was me, but it, but they claim it was at 6:00 that evening and I, we, we still were with Search and Rescue until, what [turning to JM] a quarter till four?

JM: Yeah, from . . .

DK: We didn't never, we never . . . we haven't left the camp since 1:00 that afternoon. So it's just a lot of hearsay . . . and . . .

Reporter: Was anybody camping around you?

 

[Voice4theSilent]

911 call released: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

Mom states toddler has been missing an hour at that point

911 Operator immediately asked if there is water nearby

(sounds like someone was on the phone with husband (?) in the background?)

 

[Inthedetails]

I hear parents say that a lot. Okay, we'll be back in a little while, you be good for grandpa, okay? Do what grandpa tells you, ok?

Because 2 year olds surely aren't always "good" especially out of their parent's sight, and with a campfire.

I hear you, but to state that later seems to over emphasize it. I might tell my toddler to be good for grandpa, but I wouldn't describe it that way later, ykwim? It seems controlling to mention it.

But...I do concede I'm probably over-analyzing it!!

 

[Portabella]

When my oldest son was two we went to Westminster Mall here in Colorado for Trick or Treat Street. I had to go to the bathroom which was down a VERY long hallway isolated by itself (really odd) and on the left side at the end of this hall, if you went straight it was a fire/delivery door about four feet further capping this hallway. My husband, myself and my baby walked to the mall area where this hallway was and I told him, "watch him good" and turned to head down the hall. I walked approx. fifty feet down this hall, and went into the door of the bathroom. Approx. five minutes later I emerged, and noticed that the fire door was wide open, snow was flying outside, and the UPS man had a baby in his arms....MY BABY!!!! I said, what are you doing with my baby??? He found him outside....I was so lucky but when I had told my hubbie to watch him, he somehow thought I said he was coming, so my son toddled behind me, and I went in and he could not open the bathroom main door, so he must have hit that bar letting him out onto the streets. So, I can relate and understand how fast this can happen. I feel so bad for them.... IMHO

 

[iamnotagolem]

911 call released: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

Mom states toddler has been missing an hour at that point

911 Operator immediately asked if there is water nearby

(sounds like someone was on the phone with husband (?) in the background?)

So mom says he was missing an hour when she called 911

I think the dad drove somewhere to make his 911 call, so that couldn't be who was talking in the background of Jessica's 911 call, sounded like more than 1 person in the background.

 

[concernedmother]

911 call released: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

Mom states toddler has been missing an hour at that point

911 Operator immediately asked if there is water nearby

(sounds like someone was on the phone with husband (?) in the background?)

I would have a hard time staying that calm.

 

[Aeronomy]

911 call released: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

Mom states toddler has been missing an hour at that point

911 Operator immediately asked if there is water nearby

(sounds like someone was on the phone with husband (?) in the background?)

Q:What is he wearing?
A: He was wearing (...)

 

[Jules71]

I hear you, but to state that later seems to over emphasize it. I might tell my toddler to be good for grandpa, but I wouldn't describe it that way later, ykwim? It seems controlling to mention it.

But...I do concede I'm probably over-analyzing it!!

I took "he'd be good with grandpa" to mean 'good to go'. As in fine. He'd be fine with grandpa. Not 'good' as in his behavior.

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[Voice4theSilent]

So mom says he was missing an hour when she called 911

I think the dad drove somewhere to make his 911 call, so that couldn't be who was talking in the background of Jessica's 911 call, sounded like more than 1 person in the background.

Sorry. It does sound like Mom was distracted by something on her end (aside from the conversation she was having) but what I meant was that it sounds like someone in the vicinity of the 911 operator was speaking to her about the call they were getting from Dad.

 

[Inthedetails]

I took "he'd be good with grandpa" to mean 'good to go'. As in fine. He'd be fine with grandpa. Not 'good' as in his behavior.

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That could be!

 

[concernedmother]

I wouldn't think a 2 yr old could wonder off that far in just 10 minutes. The only thing is if the body of water was close. He could have wandered in it. And would someone just walk right up with GP sitting there in broad daylight and snatch a child? My biggest fear would be he drowned. jmo

 

[Jules71]

I feel like the discrepancy between whether he was missing for an hour or whether it was 20 minutes they searched for him is between mom and dad. In the 911 call at 2:36 mom says he's been missing an hour.

Was it dad who said they searched for 20 mins before he took off a half mile down the road to call. Dad also said in the interview it was just before 2 when they went to explore. So counting back an hour from 2:36 would be 1:36 that they noticed him missing (according to Jessica). But they didn't go to explore until just before 2 (according to Dad). If you count back 20 mins of searching and then exploring for 10 mins that would put the time about 2:06 they went to explore. So that matches Dad's accounts but not mom's.

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[Inthedetails]

I feel like the discrepancy between whether he was missing for an hour or whether it was 20 minutes they searched for him is between mom and dad. In the 911 call at 2:36 mom says he's been missing an hour.

Was it dad who said they searched for 20 mins before he took off a half mile down the road to call. Dad also said in the interview it was just before 2 when they went to explore. So counting back an hour from 2:36 would be 1:36 that they noticed him missing. But they didn't go to explore until just before 2. If you count back 20 mins of searching and exploring for 10 mins that would put the time about 2:06 they went to explore. So that matches Dad's accounts but not mom's.

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I'm still hoping for a timeline of what happened that entire day before the 911 call was made. When did Dad and little boy go to the store? When were they at the store? How long did it take to drive back to camp? Did he drop off the little boy with grandpa right after returning to camp and then go exploring with his wife or did they do something else first like eat lunch? I'm still fuzzy on the happenings.

I do think it's entirely possible the boy wandered off. Just would like to back it up and walk through the day....

 

[Jules71]

I'm still hoping for a timeline of what happened that entire day before the 911 call was made. When did Dad and little boy go to the store? When were they at the store? How long did it take to drive back to camp? Did he drop off the little boy with grandpa right after returning to camp and then go exploring with his wife or did they do something else first like eat lunch? I'm still fuzzy on the happenings.

I do think it's entirely possible the boy wandered off. Just would like to back it up and walk through the day....

Right. Me too. And remember dad says they went to that store earlier as a family. But Jessica doesn't mention the store clerk seeing her just a "gentleman and young blonde boy". Dad says in the interview they hadn't left the campsite since 1:00 and were with search and rescue until?? (Quarter to 4??) So why rule out a possible sighting there at 6?? Was the boy crying when the family went prior to 1? Could the clerk really mistake the time by 5 or more hours?

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[Dr Awkward]

I've been taking my kids camping from the age of 3 on. When camping, I don't let them out of my site for any reason for even 30 seconds. If one goes to the bathroom, me and the other kid go with him. If I go to the bathroom, they're within eyeshot of me. We make everything a group activity from tent pitching to cooking.

With ticks, mountain lions, snakes, stray dogs, and weirdos; I don't consider it overly protective to stay glued together.

That being said, when there are 2 guardians involved, it would be easy for each to assume the other is watching.
My wife actually did lose our 4 year old in a crowd at a park for about 5 minutes once. It is easy to do, especially for those with less than stellar situational awareness.