ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

[Inthedetails]

I apologize if this has already been asked/discussed..............but other than this little boy's parents/family members who were out there camping............are there any independent witnesses who can 100% corroborate that they had seen this little boy there in the campground/with the family? Other campers? campground staff? vistors of other campers in the campground?

I guess what I'm really asking is.............how do we know for 100% sure that little Deorr was even there at the campsite with his family to begin with??

He was seen at a nearby store with his father on the day he went missing.

 

[MyBelle]

When my oldest son was two we went to Westminster Mall here in Colorado for Trick or Treat Street. I had to go to the bathroom which was down a VERY long hallway isolated by itself (really odd) and on the left side at the end of this hall, if you went straight it was a fire/delivery door about four feet further capping this hallway. My husband, myself and my baby walked to the mall area where this hallway was and I told him, "watch him good" and turned to head down the hall. I walked approx. fifty feet down this hall, and went into the door of the bathroom. Approx. five minutes later I emerged, and noticed that the fire door was wide open, snow was flying outside, and the UPS man had a baby in his arms....MY BABY!!!! I said, what are you doing with my baby??? He found him outside....I was so lucky but when I had told my hubbie to watch him, he somehow thought I said he was coming, so my son toddled behind me, and I went in and he could not open the bathroom main door, so he must have hit that bar letting him out onto the streets. So, I can relate and understand how fast this can happen. I feel so bad for them.... IMHO

It can happen fast but I doubt that happened in this case because the parents insist somebody else is at fault and that they've been told he isn't in the creek.

Your toddler followed you because that's what toddlers do is follow their mothers. And he was trying to find you, not exploring to see what mystery was beyond the door. He thought he'd find you and somebody helped make sure he did just that.

What toddlers do not do is go exploring on their own, especially in a strange place outside. They do not willingly and silently go with strangers. They prefer to remain as close to Mom & Dad as they can get including crawling into bed with them if they awake in the night.

I think this child drowned because the parents were negligent, nobody was watching and he followed them. Makes me sick every time I see one of these stories.

JMO

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

He was seen at a nearby store with his father on the day he went missing.

How far is this store from their campsite? Is it a little store that's on-site in the campground? (some larger campgrounds have them, where they sell basics: firewood, matches, fishing licenses, bread, flip flops, bug spray, milk, pop, bottled water, propane tanks etc).........or one completely off-site and not affiliated w/ the campground?

How was it confirmed/verified by LE that the man and little boy seen at the store were for sure Deorr and his Dad?............store video camera?


I still ask though, assuming the store is not on the campground property, have there been any independent witnesses who saw little Deorr there in the campground, at the family's campsite.

 

[Inthedetails]

How far is this store from their campsite? Is it a little store that's on-site in the campground? (some larger campgrounds have them, where they sell basics: firewood, matches, fishing licenses, bread, flip flops, bug spray, milk, pop, bottled water, propane tanks etc).........or one completely off-site and not affiliated w/ the campground?

How was it confirmed/verified by LE that the man and little boy seen at the store were for sure Deorr and his Dad?............store video camera?


I still ask though, assuming the store is not on the campground property, have there been any independent witnesses who saw little Deorr there in the campground, at the family's campsite.

I have many questions about that store visit as well. I don't know where it is, but the dad himself confirmed he was there with the boy. It's mentioned upthread and you'll see it when you catch up with the case.

 

[ClaireNC]

(snipped for emphasis)

Also........what is sound like in this area, in terms of echo, sound carrying.................meaning, if the little boy had wandered some distance away and was, God forbid, attacked by a mountain lion or other animal, would one not expect to hear his panicked cries/screams for quite a ways?

In the long interview the dad says that the creek makes sound as it passes around logs and things so it blocks out noise. He seemed to be indicating that they would not have heard anything if somebody came into the area.

 

[Wendy101]

Dad reminds me of Kaine Horman - focused and in control. What I don't understand why is it that it was always acceptable behaviour of Kaine and it is not acceptable from this Dad.. this Dad hasn't even kicked out any media yet. Nor has he requested the questions written from reporters prior to an interview..

I feel bad for the babies Great-Grandfather -

 

[ninij9]

When my oldest son was two we went to Westminster Mall here in Colorado for Trick or Treat Street. I had to go to the bathroom which was down a VERY long hallway isolated by itself (really odd) and on the left side at the end of this hall, if you went straight it was a fire/delivery door about four feet further capping this hallway. My husband, myself and my baby walked to the mall area where this hallway was and I told him, "watch him good" and turned to head down the hall. I walked approx. fifty feet down this hall, and went into the door of the bathroom. Approx. five minutes later I emerged, and noticed that the fire door was wide open, snow was flying outside, and the UPS man had a baby in his arms....MY BABY!!!! I said, what are you doing with my baby??? He found him outside....I was so lucky but when I had told my hubbie to watch him, he somehow thought I said he was coming, so my son toddled behind me, and I went in and he could not open the bathroom main door, so he must have hit that bar letting him out onto the streets. So, I can relate and understand how fast this can happen. I feel so bad for them.... IMHO

This ^^^^^ is why I always made eye contact with my hubby whenever I left the babies with him. I was a nag, but he only ever hears half of what I say.

Portabella I'm so glad that UPS guy was there when he was to intercept your little angel.



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[concernedmother]

The little boy at the store supposedly was dirty and crying. If they just sat up camp around noon how did he get so dirty by 1 when they were at the store?

 

[JeannaT]

It can happen fast but I doubt that happened in this case because the parents insist somebody else is at fault and that they've been told he isn't in the creek.

Your toddler followed you because that's what toddlers do is follow their mothers. And he was trying to find you, not exploring to see what mystery was beyond the door. He thought he'd find you and somebody helped make sure he did just that.

What toddlers do not do is go exploring on their own, especially in a strange place outside. They do not willingly and silently go with strangers. They prefer to remain as close to Mom & Dad as they can get including crawling into bed with them if they awake in the night.

I think this child drowned because the parents were negligent, nobody was watching and he followed them. Makes me sick every time I see one of these stories.

JMO

In my opinion, leaving the toddler with great grandpa isn't negligent. And my first-born toddler would take off without me. He's now 26, and is doing great, but when he was a child would head out in a bee-line when my back was turned and once when I was swinging my baby at the park and keeping an eye on my toddler at a playgroup gathering, my toddler COMPLETELY left the park, and in a panic all the moms spread out to search for him, to find him about a half mile down the street, exploring. He continued that behavior all his childhood. He wasn't purposely running away, he was just . . . exploring. In elementary school I always volunteered on field trips, and the teacher would assign me my child, and only one other because mine was "so hard to keep an eye on". No one ever thought he was running off on purpose. Some kids are super-easy to supervise, and some kids are bent on exploring.

This curiosity has probably cost little Deorr his life.

 

[teeandcee]

Despite the way it probably seems due to my predator comments, I'm inclined to go with the statistically proven reason for his disappearance or his being in the water.

I'm still not comprehending the EMT bag relevance.

While I understand concerns being posted about mountain lions , I can tell you that bears are more of a threat than anything else.

The reason I suggested a lion rather than a bear is due the speed and especially the silence of his disappearance, although I don't discount a bear. They're fast too. Either one could easily carry him off without leaving a trace. In fact, if this campground is somewhat busy a bear may be hanging around due to it being a decent food source.

I could also imagine a child seeing a big "teddy bear" or a big "kitty" and toddling towards it. Sigh---I keep getting on here hoping there's some type of resolution, preferably a happy one.

 

[JeannaT]

The little boy at the store supposedly was dirty and crying. If they just sat up camp around noon how did he get so dirty by 1 when they were at the store?

Did you notice he was filthy in the main picture they've been circulating? That pic is clearly not from the same day - the outfit is different - and he's in real need of a bath in that pic. That's just how they roll.

 

[ClaireNC]

I apologize if this has already been asked/discussed..............but other than this little boy's parents/family members who were out there camping............are there any independent witnesses who can 100% corroborate that they had seen this little boy there in the campground/with the family? Other campers? campground staff? vistors of other campers in the campground?

I guess what I'm really asking is.............how do we know for 100% sure that little Deorr was even there at the campsite with his family to begin with??

He was seen at a nearby store with his father on the day he went missing.

I've been following this from the beginning. We do not know for 100% sure that little DeOrr was there at the campsite. We only have the family's word on that. It was his dad that said they were at the store. There hasn't been any confirmation from LE or in the media to back this up. (Though I did not watch HLN or any of the most recent news casts so I don't know if one of the NG type shows might have had some interviews that I'm not aware of.)

 

[MyBelle]

In my opinion, leaving the toddler with great grandpa isn't negligent. And my first-born toddler would take off without me. He's now 26, and is doing great, but when he was a child would head out in a bee-line when my back was turned and once when I was swinging my baby at the park and keeping an eye on my toddler at a playgroup gathering, my toddler COMPLETELY left the park, and in a panic all the moms spread out to search for him, to find him about a half mile down the street, exploring. He continued that behavior all his childhood. He wasn't purposely running away, he was just . . . exploring. In elementary school I always volunteered on field trips, and the teacher would assign me my child, and only one other because mine was "so hard to keep an eye on". No one ever thought he was running off on purpose. Some kids are super-easy to supervise, and some kids are bent on exploring.

This curiosity has probably cost little Deorr his life.

BBM. Where's the proof they left the toddler "in the care" of the great-grandparent other than their word, which is a form of blame, btw.

A parent of a 2-year-old bears the sole responsibility for the care and safety of a child, especially outside and around a body of water.

JMO

 

[ninij9]

The grandma being discussed is Jessica's mom. She was not camping with them. Once Jessica called her about Deorr missing she was up there within a couple of hours.

The grandpa being discussed is Jessica's grandpa. He was camping with them.

The latest article stated the campers were Mom, Dad, Deorr, Jessica's grandpa and his friend.

Grandpa brought a friend. I already don't like this. Please don't let this be more than an accident.

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[Inthedetails]

I've been following this from the beginning. We do not know for 100% sure that little DeOrr was there at the campsite. We only have the family's word on that. It was his dad that said they were at the store. There hasn't been any confirmation from LE or in the media to back this up. (Though I did not watch HLN or any of the most recent news casts so I don't know if one of the NG type shows might have had some interviews that I'm not aware of.)

I thought the clerk made a statement about seeing a man and child at the store and then the father came forward and said it was him.

But, yes, we don't have absolute confirmation the boy was at the actual campsite.

 

[MyBelle]

I've been following this from the beginning. We do not know for 100% sure that little DeOrr was there at the campsite. We only have the family's word on that. It was his dad that said they were at the store. There hasn't been any confirmation from LE or in the media to back this up. (Though I did not watch HLN or any of the most recent news casts so I don't know if one of the NG type shows might have had some interviews that I'm not aware of.)

BBM. Exactly.

 

[concernedmother]

BBM. Where's the proof they left the toddler "in the care" of the great-grandparent other than their word, which is a form of blame, btw.

A parent of a 2-year-old bears the sole responsibility for the care and safety of a child, especially outside and around a body of water.

JMO

You would think if GP and a friend was there, one of them would have seen him missing if he was left there.

 

[flourish]

The little boy at the store supposedly was dirty and crying. If they just sat up camp around noon how did he get so dirty by 1 when they were at the store?

He's two and there was dirt available? [emoji6]

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[ClaireNC]

How far is this store from their campsite? Is it a little store that's on-site in the campground? (some larger campgrounds have them, where they sell basics: firewood, matches, fishing licenses, bread, flip flops, bug spray, milk, pop, bottled water, propane tanks etc).........or one completely off-site and not affiliated w/ the campground?

How was it confirmed/verified by LE that the man and little boy seen at the store were for sure Deorr and his Dad?............store video camera?


I still ask though, assuming the store is not on the campground property, have there been any independent witnesses who saw little Deorr there in the campground, at the family's campsite.

This is a very rustic campground that is listed as "light usage" in the government website: http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea/?recid=76100

There are no reservations or fees paid. There are basically just a few fire rings and picnic tables and a vault toilet. No drinking water or trash service. They very well could have been the only people at the campground.

The dad said that they drove to the store, so its probably not within walking distance of the campground. Or maybe they stopped at the store on the way into the campground. It is likely that the store is several miles from the campground. This is pretty much a wilderness area without a lot of development. In the 911 call Jessica says that the road into the campground is unpaved.

The store could be a small mom and pop type place without a video camera. These are common in wilderness areas.

My computer is not letting me use Google maps just now. If we have any mapmakers around, here are directions to the campground.

Directions: From Leadore, go about 4 miles west on Lee Creek Road to Forest Road 105 (left fork). Go 7.5 miles, then turn onto FR 172 (right fork), go 1 mile to the lower campground, 1.5 mile to the upper.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Despite the way it probably seems due to my predator comments, I'm inclined to go with the statistically proven reason for his disappearance or his being in the water.

I'm still not comprehending the EMT bag relevance.

I listened to that bit, over and over, of the woman in the background who sounded like she'd mentioned something about 'addressing the EMT bag' ............but that makes no sense, and I think she was saying "EMPTY bag." If said fast enough it can sound like "EMT", IMO.