ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[kammiemc]

Right.....The parents talked about the clerk and rumor of the the filthy bawling toddler and guy in black truck which has never been verified.

And the Sheriff doesn't indicate this sighting at all...I'm just sure they would have questioned this clerk. Big discrepancy here.

True. If anything, the sheriff did more to indicate that the clerk likely did not report seeing DeOrr in the store by only mentioning the possible in-car sighting by a customer when talking about whether DeOrr was with them.

Of course, that doesn't mean DeOrr wasn't in the store or the car. Just means that apparently no one could tell the sheriff they saw DeOrr for sure. Though he is 99% sure DeOrr was at the campground, I wonder if he feels just as sure about the store?


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[Deleted member 718]

Don't we have a text from Jessica to her mother about 12:30 pm on Friday that she purchased needed items from the store? And another text to her mother about 2:30 pm when Deorr goes missing?

I'm confident everyone's phone records have been scrutinized by authorities so they have time and locale of the players throughout the camping trip. We may not know all the details, but LE does.

And in my mind that's why Bowerman scratched his head when he says he can't place Deorr at the store on Friday. The store in a tiny town on a weekday afternoon.

 

[scmom]

Guess I'll have to dig around some more to try to find out about WHEN they set up camp for sure. (Yeah, right, find out a firm timeline for anything here.) I don't want to add to the confusion running rampant with DeOrr's case. Talk about a hair-puller!
And if someone can direct me I'd appreciate it.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Guess I'll have to dig around some more to try to find out about WHEN they set up camp for sure. (Yeah, right, find out a firm timeline for anything here.) I don't want to add to the confusion running rampant with DeOrr's case. Talk about a hair-puller!
And if someone can direct me I'd appreciate it.

Here's this: "Early in the investigation, there were conflicting reports about when the family arrived at the Timber Creek Campground in Leadore. Authorities had said the group arrived Friday, July 10, but Bowerman said the group actually arrived late on Thursday, July 9. The next morning, DeOrr’s parents said they took their son to a store about 20 minutes from the campsite."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

As far as setting up camp, it's been reported on facebook that Jessica, Deorr and lil Deorr slept in the back of their truck, GGP Walton in his camper and Isaac in his tent. So not really much of setting up camp that evening. I guess leveling the camper and such. Maybe a campfire for the evening. Definitely a fire the next day as that where they left lil Deorr with Gramps. HTH, or did you need more?

 

[Deleted member 718]

And from the transcript of Sheriff Bowerman and Nate Easton: “Well, the family, from what I understand, that we learned during the investigation arrived the evening prior to July 10th, sometime fairly close to dark on Thursday, July 9th"

 

[TxJan1971]

SET UP CAMP STATEMENTS

First was this:

July 15, 2015
Nancy Grace:
But Nate, I want you to tell me about the timeline, OK? It starts Friday afternoon, right?

EATON: Friday afternoon*, the family arrives at the campground. They’re settled in, setting up their tent, having a good afternoon.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/15/ng.01.html

*Discrepancy – They actually arrived Thursday night. (Sheriff Bowerman, the PI, and Nate all confirmed this)

Then on 10-9-15
Bowerman direct quote"
"Thursday evening just right around dark time they arrived, set up camp … Bowerman said

http://www.localnews8.com/news/3-mo...=social&utm_source=facebook_KIFI_Local_News_8

 

[scmom]

Thanks for the help gliving and TxJan.

 

[Deleted member 718]

http://www.wunderground.com/history...reqdb.zip=83464&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999

FWIW Less than an inch of rain during July for Leadore ID. So creek would have been at it's normal level.

 

[ILOKAL]

But I don't believe that clerks get both lunch and dinner breaks. A shift is usually 8 hrs or so. Usually only one meal break is given,imo.

Silly me! She probably punches in and out too in that town of 70 people.

 

[Rayemonde]

True. If anything, the sheriff did more to indicate that the clerk likely did not report seeing DeOrr in the store by only mentioning the possible in-car sighting by a customer when talking about whether DeOrr was with them.

Of course, that doesn't mean DeOrr wasn't in the store or the car. Just means that apparently no one could tell the sheriff they saw DeOrr for sure. Though he is 99% sure DeOrr was at the campground, I wonder if he feels just as sure about the store?


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If the clerk had said they saw a filthy, bawling DeOrr either in the store or the car then they would remember for certain that they had seen him. So the sheriff would know that DeOrr was at the store that day.

If the clerk didn't see a bawling DeOrr that day, then why would DeOrr Sr say that they did. If it wasn't DeOrr bawling with his dad but anoter child, why were DeOrr sr and Jess so certain that the sighting was of DeOrr with his dad? I still can't make it fit.

 

[Deleted member 718]

The problem is that the sheriff hasn't indicated that there was any such sighting, regardless of the time.

I guess the bottom line for Bowerman might be 'when was the last known sighting of lil Deorr besides the camping adults'.


:thinking:

 

[desert-blue]

I just re-read the first People magazine article again and I wonder if it might be adding to the confusion of when they set up camp:

"The elder Kunz says the boy's parents were setting up camp and assumed Mitchell's grandfather, who was also on the trip, was watching the boy. The grandfather assumed the boy's parents were watching him, says Kunz."

This is from the grandpa that wasn't on the trip. It implies that they were setting up camp just before Deorr went missing (which would be after the trip to the store). Since DK's dad wasn't on the trip, he may not have known the exact timeline when he made the statement. This was the only reference I could find that indicates they set up camp after the trip to the store and I don't put too much stock in it.

It seems like it would be difficult to set up camp in the dark, so I assume most setting up was done in the morning, although that is only speculation because I haven't seen anything that says what they did in the morning before the trip to the store. Long sentence...

I read somewhere that they had packed up camp by the time search & rescue arrived but now I can't find that so take it with a grain of salt. I'll keep looking.

ETA: I can't find this anywhere - must have been on SM, so please disregard. I apologize....

 

[katydid23]

Silly me! She probably punches in and out too in that town of 70 people.

Even if there are only 70 people in the town, it is still illegal to work someone 14 hours a day. JMO

 

[neesaki]

U

I just wanted to clear up any misconceptions that might have been perceived by my comment about Klaas. I, too, have the utmost respect for him and he has done wonderful things for the missing and their families. I agree with his advice except for not lawyering up if one is innocent. You can lawyer up and still cooperate with LE. I wouldn't want to be questioned by my local small town LE without having an attorney present. Four cruisers arrive when one is caught speeding. I can only imagine what it would be like to face them during an account of a missing child. They have ultra-big egos and act like they are being featured on COPS! I don't mean any disrespect to LE in general; just my local yokels. I'd definitely call them in time of need, and have done so, but I wouldn't want to be under their microscope without a lawyer by my side.

From that perspective, yes, I do agree, Jamaica. I was simply trying to point out other possibilities for discussion. I have my own preferred theories, which at this time I will keep to myself. Other than the Mountain Lion one. But then that's probably obvious for anyone who is familiar with my posts, LOL I think it's important to not let this thread for Deorr die. Which it is already seemingly in the process of doing.

 

[Rayemonde]

That would be surprising if, instead of looking for DeOrr, they started packing up. Maybe it's more realistic that they never really got around to getting unpacked?
You don't want to be the people packing up camp when your toddler is missing!!!!

I think they stayed camping there for a week or so after he went missing, so it doesn't make sense that they would pack up.

 

[ILOKAL]

Even if there are only 70 people in the town, it is still illegal to work someone 14 hours a day. JMO

LOL, who was working 14 hours? I'm merely suggesting the clerk at the store, in recalling what time she saw DK and little Deorr, may have remembered she was eating or about to eat when they came in and she confused eating dinner at that time instead of having eaten lunch. I have no idea how many hours she works in a day, week, or month - how many meal breaks she gets (if any) - or if her employer follows the rules of the Wage and Hour Review Board or pays her under the table, no pun intended. I just offered a possibility that could account for the discrepancy in time.

 

[giagreen]

What if somebody really did say they seen him at the store at 6pm because somebody really does hate them then turned around and denied seeing DeOrr at all.

 

[giagreen]

Because Jessica was putt off it seemed by the filthy crying part. If someone made that up it sounds about right to add in digs while doing it. Why would they add that part in....idk just thinkin

 

[neesaki]

That would be surprising if, instead of looking for DeOrr, they started packing up. Maybe it's more realistic that they never really got around to getting unpacked?
You don't want to be the people packing up camp when your toddler is missing!!!!

Definitely not. I guess I need to go back and read again, I don't remember, is that what was actually reported?

 

[desert-blue]

What if somebody really did say they seen him at the store at 6pm because somebody really does hate them then turned around and denied seeing DeOrr at all.

I guess that's possible but where did this person get all the details to make up a description of the store sighting that was so accurate that DK himself was convinced it was him and Deorr? Did they report the sighting to the police and then deny it? Maybe I'm not following you because I don't see how this makes sense if there actually was no store sighting anyway. Or, are you saying this person tricked DK into bringing up the rumor to prove Deorr was at the store even though he himself knew it was wasn't them at the store? My head is spinning.... I think I need some time to think about all this.