ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[giagreen]

We'll definitely appreciate the truth finally coming to light. As for the gloating I was just inserting a little dark humor here amongst all our frustration.

:banghead:

For sure!!!! I don't care if I'm right or wrong ...this is just driving me nuts because he had to of gone some where! Even if the parents did do something he still has to be some where. I know I'm gonna be thankful to know answers.

 

[ReadySet]

In the last day or two, a poster asked about trails in the area. Sorry I don't remember who.

I have also been curious about that, mainly because I wondered where that road that runs along the east side of the reservoir went to.

Below is a Forest Service Motorized Vehicle User Map. It shows what kinds of vehicles are allowed on different trails.

You can find the legends on the upper left and right.

The road on the east side of the reservoir goes at least 3 1/2 miles into the mountains, it can be driven on by any kind of vehicle. I read a mountain climbing blog where the blogger drove this road on the first leg of a trip to climb a mountain peak.

When you find the campground, you will see dotted lines going in a loop, from the campground and back again. This type of dotted lines indicates "for motorcycle use only." It looks like it would be a total of about 12 miles from the campground and back again.

So......what? Nothing, maybe. But I thought it was interesting.

ETA: I would be surprised if searchers haven't searched along many of those trails.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprd3831915.pdf

 

[katydid23]

I don't believe the baby could be in the reservoir unless he was placed there. I don't think he would have gone over the embankment and then walked along the creek all the way to the reservoir before going into the water. That makes no sense to me. If he was going to swim he would have gone right for the creek, which was the last place he was seen headed.

 

[giagreen]

I think they need to search it all again.
I hope they do.

 

[ReadySet]

Here is another type of map showing roads and trails that might be easier for some to navigate. You would put in Intermountain for region, and Salmon-Challis National Forest.

http://apps.fs.fed.us/TravelAccess/

 

[neesaki]

I was actually thinking of damming or diverting the water from the reservoir to dry out the creek for better searching.

I, too, have wondered where the creek water all goes....

I thought I remembered reading that the creek eventually flowed into the Salmon River. Wait a sec...

Ok, here it is :

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-5&p=11969132#post11969132

Originally posted by ClaireNC:

Here are some maps to show the flow of the creek into the river. I followed it along on Google maps. The Timber Creek, flows into Big Timber Creek, which flows into the Lemhi River and onto the Salmon River. The points on this map show the Campground, where the Creek meets the Lemhi River and where the Lemhi River turns into the Salmon River. It's roughly 60 miles from the Creek to the Salmon.

Here is the Google Maps version. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Timb...1084!3e0?hl=en​

 

[desert-blue]

I was actually thinking of damming or diverting the water from the reservoir to dry out the creek for better searching.

I, too, have wondered where the creek water all goes....

Stone Reservoir is on the Middle Fork of Little Timber Creek. I'm not sure if it's man-made or if something dammed it up, like beavers, or if there is just a natural depression there? I looked at the Idaho Fish & Game website and it is not stocked with fish, so it must have water in it year round or the fish would die (although wouldn't it freeze in the winter? I don't know about the fish then...). Anyway, the MF of Little Timber Creek flows into the reservoir (near the southern end) and then exits from the northern end of the reservoir. After it leaves the reservoir, it meets up with the North Fork of Little Timber Creek to form Little Timber Creek. Little Timber Creek then dumps into Big Timber Creek which eventually flows into the Lemhi River (northwest of Leadore).

That's an interesting idea to stop the flow as it leaves the reservoir so that the creek would dry up. If there is room in the reservoir, it seems plausible that this could be done. It would dry up about a mile section of the creek from the reservoir to where it joins with the North Fork (which includes the area where Deorr would have entered the creek).

 

[desert-blue]

There must be highway cameras? Road cameras.. something.. I wonder if their vehicle was seen on camera? As a matter of fact, i wonder If the creep in the jeep was seen on a highway camera? MOO

I know - I wonder that too. Wouldn't the FBI have looked for any and all cameras along their route?

 

[Mickshawn]

Stone Reservoir is on the Middle Fork of Little Timber Creek. I'm not sure if it's man-made or if something dammed it up, like beavers, or if there is just a natural depression there? I looked at the Idaho Fish & Game website and it is not stocked with fish, so it must have water in it year round or the fish would die (although wouldn't it freeze in the winter? I don't know about the fish then...). Anyway, the MF of Little Timber Creek flows into the reservoir (near the southern end) and then exits from the northern end of the reservoir. After it leaves the reservoir, it meets up with the North Fork of Little Timber Creek to form Little Timber Creek. Little Timber Creek then dumps into Big Timber Creek which eventually flows into the Lemhi River (northwest of Leadore).

That's an interesting idea to stop the flow as it leaves the reservoir so that the creek would dry up. If there is room in the reservoir, it seems plausible that this could be done. It would dry up about a mile section of the creek from the reservoir to where it joins with the North Fork (which includes the area where Deorr would have entered the creek).

I bet it would dry up pretty quickly (except for very deep holes)....I wonder if LE has thought of this?

 

[Mickshawn]

I just emailed the Sheriff with my suggestion/question (about draining the creekbed)....Will report back if he responds.

 

[Cardinal47]

Why are there no searches tor DeOrr? They searched maybe two weeks in the beginning.

Where I live people put up posters and search forever for a missing pet.

Waiting for a FBI report?

I realize this is a vast area but absolutely no excuses when a precious child is missing.


One group did raise money to search only yo have it called off by the sheriff.

Why?

Its ok to search . Public funds are
used to maintain our parks.

Why is nobody looking for the child?

 

[Onebest]

I bet it would dry up pretty quickly (except for very deep holes)....I wonder if LE has thought of this?

Mulling this over I can think of issues like increased fire hazard, water for critters, irrigation perhaps? Flooding perhaps on the Rez side causing danger to other campers. I know that I read there was a boat dock. Maybe it was discussed and ruled out. Cost might be prohibitive for that small county, they might have to consult with experts of sorts....although from a lay persons view it does not seem complicated. I don't know Mickshawn. I also keep going to the fact the Sheriff thinks the water searches are completed as well as they can be. IDK if he would rexplore this idea. I hope it's at least searched again and even farther. Water has its way of moving things you don't think it can. JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

I don't know if this would apply, but when we go to the creeks near our cabin in Tennessee we notice how different they are every time we go, depending on the amount of rain and other waters entering them. Would this occur in little Timber Creek as well? Would it make search efforts change each time?

 

[ClaireNC]

Mulling this over I can think of issues like increased fire hazard, water for critters, irrigation perhaps? Flooding perhaps on the Rez side causing danger to other campers. I know that I read there was a boat dock. Maybe it was discussed and ruled out. Cost might be prohibitive for that small county, they might have to consult with experts of sorts....although from a lay persons view it does not seem complicated. I don't know Mickshawn. I also keep going to the fact the Sheriff thinks the water searches are completed as well as they can be. IDK if he would rexplore this idea. I hope it's at least searched again and even farther. Water has its way of moving things you don't think it can. JMO

BBM I agree with the Sheriff believes the creek has been thoroughly searched. The creek is just not as deep, fast moving and filled with nooks and crannies as some people seem to believe. I have spoken to a few people who have been to the campground since Deorr went missing and there have been some times over the past three months when the creek has slowed to not much more than a trickle.

I agree that little Deorr falling in the creek is the most logical explanation for his disappearance, however, the officials are sure his little body is not in that creek.

While there have not been any organized searches recently, the family, friends and various small groups of caring non-related people have continued to search the area. There have also been local LE, the forest service and FBI personal at the site on several occasions. Pretty much every week somebody has been there looking.

Just for clarification purposes, there is no boat dock at the reservoir. There is a "hand launch for non-motorized boating". The campground is "light" usage, meaning that there are not many people that use it for camping. http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea?recid=76098

 

[pepelepolecat]

Just marking my place ...

 

[alexwood]

Good post with helpful information. OT: I had always assumed until recently that anything called a "reservoir" was man made. But that is incorrect, sometimes a natural lake can have a dam put in, like here, and then it could be called a reservoir. So I think that is what happened here. Helpful to know, also, that "Stone Reservoir" and "Timbercreek Reservoir" seem to be interchangable names for this little body of water.

I thought the same. Rivers can also be controlled by damming, as you probably know. I have a River behind my house that was dammed. It's the Occoquan Reservoir now (in Virginia). In the 1970's, the town of Occoquan was declared a disaster area (c. 1972) from flooding due to one of the fiercest hurricanes we have ever known (was it "Agnes"?). :lookingitup:

The Occoquan River had flooded the town. After that, the Occoquan River was dammed and became known as the "Occoquan Reservoir."

I remember canoeing on the Occoquan and being horrified that I was going to drift downstream and be caught up in a current that would swiftly carry me over the dam! When I finally saw the dam, it had a chain link fence across the entire width of it so that scenario could not happen. (Whew!) I have seen very high dams. I don't know why, but dams really give me the willies!

(Waaay) Off topic :naughty: , but I once met a man who had caught a catfish in the Occoquan that was as tall as he was. :liar: He showed me a polaroid photo of it hanging upside-down and he was standing beside it! He had been in a canoe when he caught it. The photo predated "Photoshop," so I believe it was real. He said the catfish must have been very old. (I'm not an avid fisherman, so I would love someone to weigh-in on this one, as I am skeptical about the canoe part of the anecdote!) :fishy: :worms:

 

[ILOKAL]

I thought the same. Rivers can also be controlled by damming, as you probably know. I have a River behind my house that was dammed. It's the Occoquan Reservoir now (in Virginia). In the 1970's, the town of Occoquan was declared a disaster area (c. 1972) from flooding due to one of the fiercest hurricanes we have ever known (was it "Agnes"?). :lookingitup:

The Occoquan River had flooded the town. After that, the Occoquan River was dammed and became known as the "Occoquan Reservoir."

I remember canoeing on the Occoquan and being horrified that I was going to drift downstream and be caught up in a current that would swiftly carry me over the dam! When I finally saw the dam, it had a chain link fence across the entire width of it so that scenario could not happen. (Whew!) I have seen very high dams. I don't know why, but dams really give me the willies!

(Waaay) Off topic :naughty: , but I once met a man who had caught a catfish in the Occoquan that was as tall as he was. :liar: He showed me a polaroid photo of it hanging upside-down and he was standing beside it! He had been in a canoe when he caught it. The photo predated "Photoshop," so I believe it was real. He said the catfish must have been very old. (I'm not an avid fisherman, so I would love someone to weigh-in on this one, as I am skeptical about the canoe part of the anecdote!) :fishy: :worms:

My son is an avid fisherman and grew up in Oklahoma where the catfish are plenty and can be HUGE! Yes, they often can be as long as a grown man. I believe he could catch one from a canoe. It might drag him around for a while but would eventually tire out where he could bring it up next to the canoe. Bringing it ON the canoe would be quite tricky, IMO, but not impossible. My son caught blue cats, channel cats, and flathead cats. He has also gone noodling for catfish which is something I would NEVER do!! LOL

 

[neesaki]

I do wonder if the reason LE hasn't released the results of the polygraphs is because one of the POI's didn't pass... just speculation and JMO. Another thought, I wonder if IR was missing during any or all of the time that little Deorr was missing, possibly even while the parents were searching for him before the 911 call. I know he was allegedly fishing down at the creek, but did anyone actually see him during that time? Perhaps the parents suspect him and that's why they didn't mention him at all during their interview. His name never came up, the elephant in the room. I realize he's still only a POI, but out of the four persons of interest I can't help but find him to be the more interesting. Also out of the four he's the only one with a lawyer and they don't come cheap.

 

[iluvmua]

I do wonder if the reason LE hasn't released the results of the polygraphs is because one of the POI's didn't pass... just speculation and JMO. Another thought, I wonder if IR was missing during any or all of the time that little Deorr was missing, possibly even while the parents were searching for him before the 911 call. I know he was allegedly fishing down at the creek, but did anyone actually see him during that time? Perhaps the parents suspect him and that's why they didn't mention him at all during their interview. His name never came up, the elephant in the room. I realize he's still only a POI, but out of the four persons of interest I can't help but find him to be the more interesting. Also out of the four he's the only one with a lawyer and they don't come cheap.

1. I think that If the parents suspected him (They did not know him) they would have thrown him under the bus every chance they got.

2. He's smart to get a lawyer regardless of guilt or innocence. He has a criminal background.

JMO

 

[wondering25]

So, ok, the sheriff is going back to square one and re-interviewing the parents. He is going to re-examine scat..per someone here.. i dont recall he said that but fine..he missed MONTHS of warmer weather for searching the water, the trails, the brush etc again in the outside chance something was missed. Volunteers offered to organize searches and he called them off.

So, let's say he finds mountain lion scat.. what does that prove? Only that there was a mountain lion there at some point.. did it arrive a month ago? last week? Was it there 3 months ago? Apparently looking at scat 3 months ago failed to reveal a mountain lion in the area.

IMO, the sheriff is NOT going to re examine the creek, the reservoir or the brush. He was fully satisfied that if the baby was there he would have been found using the best methods he had available. It is cold now and getting colder. He did his searching following protocol, it appears. He wasnt being coy, holding things close to the vest or being purposely evasive.. He doesnt know what happened.

For months the poster that was released about the baby had the wrong eye color ( it has been corrected now). Whoever was responsible for that is another example, imo, of the sloppiness of this entire operation. I dont know if the FBI ( or LE) checked the highway cameras.. I know someone on WS did. IMO, LE did a search and rescue then a search and recovery and both failed.

Body gases would have made the body surface..the sheriff said it might take a week for the body to surface.. it didnt. many people have been lost in rivers, and creeks and other kinds of water.. the body eventually rises unless eaten by large fish like in the ocean.. The fact that everyone who posts here has new ideas tells me that most are dissatisfied with the methods employed or the length of time, or the fact that nothing new was done from around mid July on.

Maybe a hunter will find something. Maybe the baby was abducted.. maybe the sketch should have been drawn and circulated weeks ago..maybe the sheriff was wrong when he was "solid" with the family..Maybe it is just too late..MOO

Anything i write is just my opinion.