ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[kammiemc]

We have:

SB convinced there was no abduction.
PI Vilt stating GGP was neglectful and making public that items of his were taken by the FBI.
Neither of the above believe IR had anything to do with it.
Parents haven't even acknowledged IR even exists to my knowledge, never mind questioning his "shady" background.

Then there is the latest talk of someone who hates the parents so much they took Deorr. I don't know where this is coming from but I haven't seen or heard anything from LE or the family that makes me think this is a possibility.

Unless all four POI's have been able to keep this quiet for 3 months (through fear for example) and from LE.

I think the idea of someone hating them enough to introduce that rumor comes from a poster discovering some of the over-the-top people on SM. But even if it is true, that would only mean that the hateful person sparked a rumor that wasn't proven to be taken seriously by LE. So not sure what the significance is anyway.


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[Brezooka]

Was hoping someone could clear this up for me? During the 911 call JM states that DK jr was missing for an hour. But in the interview with NE they stated that he was missing for 20 minutes prior to calling 911. So I'm confused.

 

[pepelepolecat]

My strongest theories? Known abductor, accident, or foul play.

Though as I stated the other day, NOTHING will surprise me, except for abduction by a stranger.

I do think stranger abduction is one of the least likely possibilities.

But other than that, there are a lot of possibilities and pretty much none ruled out by LEO.

 

[ReadySet]

Testing?

 

[ILOKAL]

I do think stranger abduction is one of the least likely possibilities.

But other than that, there are a lot of possibilities and pretty much none ruled out by LEO.

Since the sheriff said the parents were solid and he believed IR was being truthful, I wonder what theory he believes is the most probable?

 

[Deleted member 718]

Was hoping someone could clear this up for me? During the 911 call JM states that DK jr was missing for an hour. But in the interview with NE they stated that he was missing for 20 minutes prior to calling 911. So I'm confused.

Yep, that confuses me too. I've searched for other references but the only other times reported refer to the time he was unattended until his parents realized he was gone, not how long they actively searched before calling 911.

"What happened during the 20 to 45 minutes the child was alone is a mystery to authorities, said Bowerman, who noted "all possibilities" are being investigated."

http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks


I'm more confused as to their timeline earlier on Friday. They returned to camp about 1pm, Deorr is unattended for 45 minutes, then they search for an hour. Total that and it takes us to 2:45pm which is after the 911 call. It doesn't add up. (Someone check my math please)

Of course we've seen all different time scenarios, including Vilt's version of GGP stepping into the camper for a moment. But for now I'm going to stick with 911 call and Bowerman's version.

 

[Brezooka]

Yep, that confuses me too. I've searched for other references but the only other times reported refer to the time he was unattended until his parents realized he was gone, not how long they actively searched before calling 911.

"What happened during the 20 to 45 minutes the child was alone is a mystery to authorities, said Bowerman, who noted "all possibilities" are being investigated."

http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks


I'm more confused as to their timeline earlier on Friday. They returned to camp about 1pm, Deorr is unattended for 45 minutes, then they search for an hour. Total that and it takes us to 2:45pm which is after the 911 call. It doesn't add up. (Someone check my math please)

Of course we've seen all different time scenarios, including Vilt's version of GGP stepping into the camper for a moment. But for now I'm going to stick with 911 call and Bowerman's version.

friday time line doesn't add up to me either. Hadn't left camp since 1 pm (except DK did technically leave the camp, he left to go get service on his cell phone to call 911. So maybe he meant THEY as a family hadnt left since 1 PM.) 911 call at 2:36 PM per JM. That's 1 hour and 36 minutes for little man to go missing & then 20 minutes to search and then the 911 call. Even If the times don't match up, it still doesn't prove anything either way. It just sucks he isn't found by now, it sucks to pick apart the videos , interviews & sheriff statements & IR statement to NE , and still we don't have it figured out!

 

[Brezooka]

after studying some body language websites today and yesterday, I have made a decision that based on the parents interview with NE, they REALLY are in mourning over their son. And fear is evident. I am fearful that an abduction really is possible, so what now?!

 

[ReadySet]

Bringing this post from ClaireNC forward as it has been one of the most helpful for me in the last few days. Information from people who have actually been to the campground.

BBM I agree with the Sheriff believes the creek has been thoroughly searched. The creek is just not as deep, fast moving and filled with nooks and crannies as some people seem to believe. I have spoken to a few people who have been to the campground since Deorr went missing and there have been some times over the past three months when the creek has slowed to not much more than a trickle.

I agree that little Deorr falling in the creek is the most logical explanation for his disappearance, however, the officials are sure his little body is not in that creek.

While there have not been any organized searches recently, the family, friends and various small groups of caring non-related people have continued to search the area. There have also been local LE, the forest service and FBI personal at the site on several occasions. Pretty much every week somebody has been there looking.

Just for clarification purposes, there is no boat dock at the reservoir. There is a "hand launch for non-motorized boating". The campground is "light" usage, meaning that there are not many people that use it for camping. http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea?recid=76098

 

[bessie]

Yep, that confuses me too. I've searched for other references but the only other times reported refer to the time he was unattended until his parents realized he was gone, not how long they actively searched before calling 911.

"What happened during the 20 to 45 minutes the child was alone is a mystery to authorities, said Bowerman, who noted "all possibilities" are being investigated."

http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks


I'm more confused as to their timeline earlier on Friday. They returned to camp about 1pm, Deorr is unattended for 45 minutes, then they search for an hour. Total that and it takes us to 2:45pm which is after the 911 call. It doesn't add up. (Someone check my math please)

Of course we've seen all different time scenarios, including Vilt's version of GGP stepping into the camper for a moment. But for now I'm going to stick with 911 call and Bowerman's version.

The time span you quoted is 20-45 minutes that he was not in his parents' sight.

So why not go with the lower end of that window, 20 minutes? That would bring the time to 2:20 p.m.

Or if you want to get real exact, say the parents were away 28 minutes. There ya go. One hour and 28 minutes -->> 2:28 p.m.

Besides, with the exception of the time-stamped 911 call, the timeline is based on estimated, "best guesses". And times can vary among devices, as well.

 

[ILOKAL]

Yep, that confuses me too. I've searched for other references but the only other times reported refer to the time he was unattended until his parents realized he was gone, not how long they actively searched before calling 911.

"What happened during the 20 to 45 minutes the child was alone is a mystery to authorities, said Bowerman, who noted "all possibilities" are being investigated."

http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks


I'm more confused as to their timeline earlier on Friday. They returned to camp about 1pm, Deorr is unattended for 45 minutes, then they search for an hour. Total that and it takes us to 2:45pm which is after the 911 call. It doesn't add up. (Someone check my math please)

Of course we've seen all different time scenarios, including Vilt's version of GGP stepping into the camper for a moment. But for now I'm going to stick with 911 call and Bowerman's version.

As I understand it from DK's and JM's interview, they returned from the store at about 1 PM. It was close to 2 PM (and close to DeOrr's naptime) when they went to explore and left DeOrr with GGPA by the fire. They were only gone a few minutes when DK saw some minnows that he thought DeOrr would love (to see), so DK and JM returned to camp to get DeOrr and found out DeOrr was missing. They searched for about 20 minutes then called 911. That timeline actually works out with the 911 call made at 2:36. IMO

 

[Brezooka]

As I understand it from DK's and JM's interview, they returned from the store at about 1 PM. It was close to 2 PM (and close to DeOrr's naptime) when they went to explore and left DeOrr with GGPA by the fire. They were only gone a few minutes when DK saw some minnows that he thought DeOrr would love (to see), so DK and JM returned to camp to get DeOrr and found out DeOrr was missing. They searched for about 20 minutes then called 911. That timeline actually works out with the 911 call made at 2:36. IMO

I'm not trying to argue or be difficult, I just can't seem to understand the timeline based off of JM telling 911 that he had been missing for 1 hour?

 

[desert-blue]

DK said they left to go exploring just before 2:00. He said it was 50 yards, she said 10 minutes, from the place/time they last saw Deorr until they realized he was gone. The time stamp on the 911 call is 2:28 - JM said it was 2:36 (which I assume is the time from her phone which could differ from the 911 clock). Based on these statements, the time spent searching for him can't have been an hour...20 minutes seems more likely. I'm not sure why she said an hour during the 911 call - maybe just to get help on the way quickly?

 

[giagreen]

I'm not trying to argue or be difficult, I just can't seem to understand the timeline based off of JM telling 911 that he had been missing for 1 hour?

Its hard IMO to take the 1 hour as fact it was 1 hour. I mean if they were busy trying to find him I'm not sure they thought to check the time before searching. When asked your gonna make a guess based on how long it feels. I wouldn't be surprised if they only searched 20 min and it felt like an hour.
When ever anything scary happens our brains have a way of making it feel longer then it really was.

 

[ILOKAL]

I'm not trying to argue or be difficult, I just can't seem to understand the timeline based off of JM telling 911 that he had been missing for 1 hour?

I don't believe there's an exact transcript of the 911 call and what "hour" was in reference to. IMO. There's been quite a bit of discussion about that.

 

[desert-blue]

I don't believe there's an exact transcript of the 911 call and what "hour" was in reference to. IMO. There's been quite a bit of discussion about that.

That hour, IMO, would go all the way back to the last moment they saw him (or GGP saw him). The 911 operator asked how long he'd been missing, not how long they had been looking for him (I just listened to it again). So, maybe that clears up some confusion?

 

[Little Ol Me]

A clip of the 911 call.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

 

[Deleted member 718]

The time span you quoted is 20-45 minutes that he was not in his parents' sight.

So why not go with the lower end of that window, 20 minutes? That would bring the time to 2:20 p.m.

Snipped by me.

Bessie, I can't go with the lower end of the window because the sheriff doesn't define it that way. Wish I could. He gives a time span of 20 to 45 minutes. I'm not sure why you want to make it muddy.

 

[bessie]

I'm not trying to argue or be difficult, I just can't seem to understand the timeline based off of JM telling 911 that he had been missing for 1 hour?

Perhaps she was mistaken. She was in a panic. She was on a camping trip in the middle of nowhere. No television, no computer, no school bells nor lunch whistles. None of the usual reminders that frame our days and nights. I know that personally, when I'm outside of my normal space/time zone -- relaxing at the beach, or just spending a long time outdoors gardening -- my sense of time is altered under good circumstances. So I certainly don't expect perfect accuracy from the distraught mother of a lost child.

When the dispatcher asked how long he'd been missing, she hesitated. It was obvious she wasn't certain, and was trying to make a quick calculation with nothing much to go on but her senses -- which she was half-out-of at the moment.

The demand for exactitude in every detail has created unnecessary confusion, imo. When if we place the known events within the approximately ninety minute window we've been given, and allow some flexibility, everything fits comfortably within reason.

JMO

 

[TxJan1971]

A clip of the 911 call.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

~~
and a transcript
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/15/ng.01.html