ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[giagreen]

I took SB to mean that the older couple camping at the upper reservoir sent their kids up to meet with SB after they had gone back home and were then contacted by local LE. MOO.

That could be what he ment. I'm gonna have to listen to it again. I guess I just assumed he ment they had them visit while camping.

 

[Cardinal47]

I finally said screw it a few months ago and went and a got a hiking backpack that can hold toddlers up to 50-60lbs. Its almost even more of a workout but 10x less stressful for him and I both. So we just go on hikes now threw the woods. He likes that. Chills him out and gives him stuff to look at.
And I finally understand them leashes they make for toddlers. I use to think they were mean and borderlined on child abuse. But those for some can be huge for the safety of runner that refuses to sit in a stroller.

I know the parents said he was clingy and usually stayed by them but then they also said he was a mover and a goer. And that's all hard for me to figure out how to take. He could be a little bit of both. I'd consider my wild child to be clingy as well. He's always on me and wants to do and be part of anything I do unless if we step outside or really go anywhere. But then when people and not just DeOrr parents say they've got a goer I never know what they mean. Like do you mean you have a typical two year old or are we talking a high energy runner. And I guess I wouldnt really have no clue how a typical toddler moves or wonders because my only experience has been what the doctor told me was a high energy toddler.

OT but just to give you some hope...my runner excelled at all sports in high school.

She holds a Masters Degree in Education and has been nominated Teacher of The Year.

So they are high energy but if that energy can be focused they can also be high achievers.

 

[Hoosier952]

I'm surprised that a busy store full of people couldn't provide one witness remembering Deorr being there. Or at least a little blonde toddler with his parents or looking at the candy. Especially locals and semi-locals who would have probably heard at least something about the case (I'm thinking local news stations and newspapers probably had a bit more coverage than national news as well as small town gossip). Of course, someone could have called in to report seeing him and LE didn't care to mention it or blew it off. I have to wonder if any tips were called in early in the investigation when it seemed obvious that Deorr had just wandered off. Would LE keep any and all tips called in? What if those tips matched up with details given by the parents?

Example: Jane the local saw a little boy that looked like Deorr that day in the store. She had heard he was missing. Decided she should call in the sighting just in case. Tells LE she was in the store around noon that day, says Deorr was picking out candy, didn't see if he was with parent(s), didn't get a good look at the parent(s), saw him with a (wo)man, etc. LE knows the JM and Sr. were in the store around that time. LE thinks they could only be dealing with a lost toddler. Would they keep that tip? Would anyone remember that phone call?

I still think the story keeps changing and I can't figure out why. I don't think it's divulging more details giving me that impression either. We were given a few more details, but they don't all match up and that bothers me.

I'm also curious about the reasoning behind the PI quitting. I also find it curious that he's going to LE to discuss how to proceed with the case. I thought LE had pretty much told him to get lost, or was that only Lehmi County?

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm also curious about the reasoning behind the PI quitting. I also find it curious that he's going to LE to discuss how to proceed with the case. I thought LE had pretty much told him to get lost, or was that only Lehmi County?

Where did you hear that? Sheriff Bowerman is going to the Idaho Falls LE to discuss how the case should proceed, is that what you're thinking of?

 

[pepelepolecat]

I'm surprised that a busy store full of people couldn't provide one witness remembering Deorr being there. Or at least a little blonde toddler with his parents or looking at the candy. Especially locals and semi-locals who would have probably heard at least something about the case (I'm thinking local news stations and newspapers probably had a bit more coverage than national news as well as small town gossip). Of course, someone could have called in to report seeing him and LE didn't care to mention it or blew it off. I have to wonder if any tips were called in early in the investigation when it seemed obvious that Deorr had just wandered off. Would LE keep any and all tips called in? What if those tips matched up with details given by the parents?

Example: Jane the local saw a little boy that looked like Deorr that day in the store. She had heard he was missing. Decided she should call in the sighting just in case. Tells LE she was in the store around noon that day, says Deorr was picking out candy, didn't see if he was with parent(s), didn't get a good look at the parent(s), saw him with a (wo)man, etc. LE knows the JM and Sr. were in the store around that time. LE thinks they could only be dealing with a lost toddler. Would they keep that tip? Would anyone remember that phone call?

I still think the story keeps changing and I can't figure out why. I don't think it's divulging more details giving me that impression either. We were given a few more details, but they don't all match up and that bothers me.

I'm also curious about the reasoning behind the PI quitting. I also find it curious that he's going to LE to discuss how to proceed with the case. I thought LE had pretty much told him to get lost, or was that only Lehmi County?

The PI is going to LE? I hadn't heard that.

 

[Arnie M]

Children are soooo different. I understand exactly what you are saying. My youngest would not stop running. Put her down and off she went.

I remember one day I was so tired of chasing her I set her down and said off you go. She started down the street and never looked back even once. Down the sidewalk she ran.

Then reality set in and I thought what have I done and ran as fast as I could to get her. But had I not done that she would still be running.

We don't know what kind of child DeOrr is but the more this plays out the more I too think he is somewhere and just hasn't been found yet.

Which takes me back to the Sheriff. Why isn't he allowing those offering to come and search with their dogs to come? Why did he discourage that ******** group from coming in for the big search and why haven't they brought in any of the professional search groups.

This young couple that lost their child have depended on those in charge to do the right thing. But did they? No Amber alerts, no professional searches, no news conferences except one or two.

What's up? And to be true I don't think they have any idea what happened to this little child. They might suspect this or that but in the end there have been no arrests, no person of interest and nothing to show they have a theory in what happened.

This is a crying shame. Poor DeOrr and poor all of them.

THANK YOU !!!! ... the other day I was trying to make that point too ... children who are "runners" will go and go and go if they get the chance.

DeOrr had 1 or 2 hours head start by the time all the searchers arrived. They did not find him so he had 6 to 8 hours of daylight to keep going if he had the energy and did not stop for a nap.

ps: you asked about bringing in other search dogs etc .... the sheriff said after the first day they brought more than 18 different dogs with handlers there , so at least that much was done.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

The PI is going to LE? I hadn't heard that.

I think the poster is mistaken. SB is going to Idaho Falls.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Thinking about SB's latest statement that FBI can't analyze some of the items that were given to them. Why would that be?

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/10/sheriff-fbi-unable-to-analyze-some-evidence-in-deorr-kunz-case/

 

[haven71]

It's one thing to "notice" (I do that also) and quite another thing to remember you had noticed. If there's no reason to remember, then your mind probably won't, otherwise you would remember every single person you ever noticed and I doubt that you do. There has to be something that would cause your mind to differentiate between everyone you noticed and someone in particular. IMO

That's a good point, in general.

However, IF the store was busy, it just seems like SOMEONE would remember. I wonder how many visitors the store gets. And percentage-wise how many customers are from campers or hunters compared to the local population. The clerk would know the locals already and would be much more likely to notice newcomers I would think.

Also, it seems like everyone in the area (camping or otherwise) would've have known very early on that a 2.5 year old boy had just disappeared. I think that would jog a person's memory as they tried as hard as they could to remember.

 

[haven71]

I'm surprised that a busy store full of people couldn't provide one witness remembering Deorr being there. Or at least a little blonde toddler with his parents or looking at the candy. Especially locals and semi-locals who would have probably heard at least something about the case (I'm thinking local news stations and newspapers probably had a bit more coverage than national news as well as small town gossip). Of course, someone could have called in to report seeing him and LE didn't care to mention it or blew it off. I have to wonder if any tips were called in early in the investigation when it seemed obvious that Deorr had just wandered off. Would LE keep any and all tips called in? What if those tips matched up with details given by the parents?

Example: Jane the local saw a little boy that looked like Deorr that day in the store. She had heard he was missing. Decided she should call in the sighting just in case. Tells LE she was in the store around noon that day, says Deorr was picking out candy, didn't see if he was with parent(s), didn't get a good look at the parent(s), saw him with a (wo)man, etc. LE knows the JM and Sr. were in the store around that time. LE thinks they could only be dealing with a lost toddler. Would they keep that tip? Would anyone remember that phone call?

I still think the story keeps changing and I can't figure out why. I don't think it's divulging more details giving me that impression either. We were given a few more details, but they don't all match up and that bothers me.

I'm also curious about the reasoning behind the PI quitting. I also find it curious that he's going to LE to discuss how to proceed with the case. I thought LE had pretty much told him to get lost, or was that only Lehmi County?

Oops, just saw this and you made a couple of the same points as I just did.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Thinking about SB's latest statement that FBI can't analyze some of the items that were given to them. Why would that be?

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/10/sheriff-fbi-unable-to-analyze-some-evidence-in-deorr-kunz-case/

Here's some info one what the FBI can and can't test.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/dcu-case-acceptance-guidance-final.pdf

ETA: If it does not apply to this case, please disregard. But I did find some info I didn't know previously.

 

[Rayemonde]

THANK YOU !!!! ... the other day I was trying to make that point too ... children who are "runners" will go and go and go if they get the chance.

DeOrr had 1 or 2 hours head start by the time all the searchers arrived. They did not find him so he had 6 to 8 hours of daylight to keep going if he had the energy and did not stop for a nap.

ps: you asked about bringing in other search dogs etc .... the sheriff said after the first day they brought more than 18 different dogs with handlers there , so at least that much was done.

Those of you with runners, how far do you think a two year old could get? Iirc the sheriff said they only searched 2 miles of the Creek. How far would you search?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Both mine were runners, very strong and fast. My son in particular, at aged 2 going on 3, could easily run for a mile without thinking about it, he's still like a little dynamo. However, on rough terrain he would likely have taken a little fall at some point, and cried when he realised he couldn't see me. How soon were the copters out looking for Deorr?

 

[iluvmua]

You would think at lease one person would have seen DK & JM and deorr in the store.

jmo

 

[iluvmua]

I'm still trying to figure out why DK said that it was him in the store with deorr but at a different time and now the clerk can't remember if deorr was in the store at all but they do remember talking to the parents and DK & JM were talking about deorr.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I'm still trying to figure out why DK said that it was him in the store with deorr but at a different time and now the clerk can't remember if deorr was in the store at all but they do remember talking to the parents and DK & JM were talking about deorr.

I just listened to Jessica again and she says: One of the ladies that worked at the store. So now I wonder if there were two clerks....

 

[pepelepolecat]

Those of you with runners, how far do you think a two year old could get? Iirc the sheriff said they only searched 2 miles of the Creek. How far would you search?

I had one who at three would go out and jog with his dad -- he could last about three miles before pooping out. I'm not sure if he'd have run that long after darting off (and thankfully, never found out), and he was three, and he was used to running with dad. I also had a darter who would dart off, realize that we weren't with him, and turn around and come back. When people get lost, they tend to keep going. I can't imagine this would be any different for a little one. Theoretically, DeOrr could have gotten a goodly distance before realizing his parents weren't around and then tried to find them. When he couldn't find them, he just kept going. Think Billy/Family Circus. If he darted, he probably was not running full-out in a straight line for a long period of time. But that doesn't mean he couldn't have gotten a good distance away anyway during the first several hours he was missing.

All conjecture and speculation and opinion.

 

[ILOKAL]

I think everyone who is so certain that someone SHOULD have remembered seeing DeOrr in the store (IF he was even there?) should give themselves that same test. Look back over the last 3-4 days at all the places you went and see if you remember just anyone (not someone who stood out for a particular reason). We just returned from an 11-day vacation to seven states and LOTS of places and I don't remember anyone that we didn't directly engage with.

 

[redheart]

That's very subjective. I remember faces very easily from trips to the store or other everyday activities. Just because you don't doesn't mean that other people can't. I really can't say what is the "norm" - to easily recall faces in a situation like this, or not - and neither can you.

 

[ILOKAL]

Here's some info one what the FBI can and can't test.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/dcu-case-acceptance-guidance-final.pdf

ETA: If it does not apply to this case, please disregard. But I did find some info I didn't know previously.

Maybe the soiled diaper was turned over to the FBI which is an item they don't test.