ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[Elle*Bee]

Do we know much about the EMT bag? Size, contents? Those bags, fully stocked aren't cheap. Not sure where I'm going with this...thoughts swirling in my ADHD brain (which is the equivalent of having 119 web browser tabs open at once).

 

[Suthrnqt]

Do we know much about the EMT bag? Size, contents? Those bags, fully stocked aren't cheap. Not sure where I'm going with this...thoughts swirling in my ADHD brain (which is the equivalent of having 119 web browser tabs open at once).

I have wondered about the EMT bag myself. I didn't want to mention it, because I thought I was probably obsessing on a non issue. :blushing: Was it a small "fanny pouch" sized bag or was it one of the larger "duffel bag" sized bags? IDK. Anybody here know? TIA

 

[Hoosier952]

Yes, but what if nobody had to sneak in and out? What if Deorr wandered not too far away, but far away enough to be taken by someone unnoticed? I once had a dog stolen like this. The lady who was watching him left the back door open, and the dog wandered to an open house next door. The real estate agent saw him and took him. Someone they knew saw flyers, and put two and two together. So this guy jumped their fence, stole the dog back, and brought him back to us. He was missing for 2 weeks. Sometimes life can be a perfect storm for these types of things to happen.

I think him wandering far enough away would be the only possible way a kidnapping could have occurred without anyone noticing, but then you get back into a bunch of questions. How long was he unattended? How far could he have wandered in that time period? How many kidnappers were hanging around middle of nowhere camp waiting for the perfect opportunity to snatch a kid? How many kidnappers would be willing to go somewhere, grab a child with four adults nearby, with only one 20 minute exit route via automobile? I just think the likelihood is so tiny and the potential risks too great in this situation.

 

[Groundwork]

I took a cursory look into EMT bag sizes...they vary, but the larger ones are pretty big (21"x15"x9" or so, some even larger).

 

[Onebest]

I just returned from walking with my dogs (on leash). I've seen this happen before and find it interesting..

So, we're tooling down the road (very rural here...all dead end dirt roads), dogs stop to sniff here and there...Then, it's time to turn back and something we literally passed less than 10 seconds earlier (and was NO big deal) has suddenly turned into a HUGE SMELL DEAL....I mean, they went berserk! I almost got pulled over and dragged, it was THAT good!

It's fascinating and all I can think of is something changed weather-wise, and smells are rising differently? I bet One Best could explain it.

Air temperature, scent rising in the evening and perhaps you were walking into the wind on the way back? You might like this link. I read it all the time. The visuals show why sometimes dogs can miss things right by them. The handler is so key, they have to read the dogs body language and interpret what they are saying just like what you were trying to do while walking your dogs.
https://houndandthefound.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/how-scent-and-airflow-works/
Great question and observation.

 

[Onebest]

Do we know much about the EMT bag? Size, contents? Those bags, fully stocked aren't cheap. Not sure where I'm going with this...thoughts swirling in my ADHD brain (which is the equivalent of having 119 web browser tabs open at once).

I don't understand why someone would take the stuff inside and leave the empty bag...that doesn't make sense to me. Why not steal the whole bag if your going to steal something? Who would take time to dump it out? If you did what would you put the contents into? What would a person be doing to see this opportunity to get something like this out of someone's truck and take what's inside but not the bag? JMO.

 

[neesaki]

I think him wandering far enough away would be the only possible way a kidnapping could have occurred without anyone noticing, but then you get back into a bunch of questions. How long was he unattended? How far could he have wandered in that time period? How many kidnappers were hanging around middle of nowhere camp waiting for the perfect opportunity to snatch a kid? How many kidnappers would be willing to go somewhere, grab a child with four adults nearby, with only one 20 minute exit route via automobile? I just think the likelihood is so tiny and the potential risks too great in this situation.

Since this information has finally been released by LE that there were other campers in the upper campground during the time of little Deorr's disappearance, I think that it's also safe to assume that they were obviously coming and going to and from the area.... before, during and after his disappearance. Given that point, why / how wouldn't there also be the possibility of other vehicles of unknown persons also coming and going in and out, up and down, that same road. I'm beginning to get the feeling that either a lot of information is being withheld by LE, or that the folks at the campground weren't exactly in an alert state of mind. I think it has to be one way or the other, not both. At this point I can't even begin to say what I'm feeling about all this.

 

[giagreen]

I don't understand why someone would take the stuff inside and leave the empty bag...that doesn't make sense to me. Why not steal the whole bag if your going to steal something? Who would take time to dump it out? If you did what would you put the contents into? What would a person be doing to see this opportunity to get something like this out of someone's truck and take what's inside but not the bag? JMO.

You mean they just took the bag? Or they only took what was in the bag. I always thought it was the whole bag and everything in it. What did I miss?

 

[Brezooka]

I'm just mind boggled. A) an EMT bag goes missing. During the search. B) cremains were scattered. During the search. C) other Campers were in the area, possibly coming & going, during the search. SB mentions no one was seen coming or going during the search. So, If those 3 things Happened DURING the search, than there is no doubt little Deorr could of been picked up by an abductor. Heck, it could of even Happened DURING the search.

 

[Suthrnqt]

You mean they just took the bag? Or they only took what was in the bag. I always thought it was the whole bag and everything in it. What did I miss?

That's what I thought....that the whole bag & its contents disappeared. Did I get it wrong?

 

[Cardinal47]

Perhaps an eagle took them.

It is mighty strange that these people weren't mentioned before. And it wasn't just an elderly couple, they had family visit them there too. Surely all these people must be accounted for, surely their vehicles have been searched?

This all reminds me of being on a beach with shifting sand. Everything keeps changing.

I have wondered from the beginning if GGP and IR had any visitors stopping by to sit by the fire and chat.

Nobody has ever asked. Will that be the next surprise?

 

[giagreen]

That's what I thought....that the whole bag & its contents disappeared. Did I get it wrong?

I don't think you did. I don't know tho. I'm confused. Its never been reported as that. Heck the most info we finally got was an answer that it was taken.

 

[wondering25]

Why did DK go 1/2 mile up the road to get cell phone coverage when they already had it?

 

[ILOKAL]

Air temperature, scent rising in the evening and perhaps you were walking into the wind on the way back? You might like this link. I read it all the time. The visuals show why sometimes dogs can miss things right by them. The handler is so key, they have to read the dogs body language and interpret what they are saying just like what you were trying to do while walking your dogs.
https://houndandthefound.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/how-scent-and-airflow-works/
Great question and observation.

Onebest, I came across that sight yesterday and it is fascinating. Giving all that dogs and their handlers need to learn to become proficient SAR teams, what amount of time does the team spend in its initial training and any follow-up training? I think someone (perhaps it was you) mentioned this previously but I can't remember what was said. Thanks so much for your informative and insightful posts.

 

[haven71]

I think him wandering far enough away would be the only possible way a kidnapping could have occurred without anyone noticing, but then you get back into a bunch of questions. How long was he unattended? How far could he have wandered in that time period? How many kidnappers were hanging around middle of nowhere camp waiting for the perfect opportunity to snatch a kid? How many kidnappers would be willing to go somewhere, grab a child with four adults nearby, with only one 20 minute exit route via automobile? I just think the likelihood is so tiny and the potential risks too great in this situation.

Good questions. Make me wonder if it's possible that he may have wandered further (and the POI's accounts of how long Deorr was actually gone are confusing) and met up with an unsavory character (to say the least). Perhaps he was taken and then driven out of the campground when searchers and all their vehicles arrived. Because I don't remember hearing that cars going in OR out were being stopped and searched.

 

[haven71]

I don't understand why someone would take the stuff inside and leave the empty bag...that doesn't make sense to me. Why not steal the whole bag if your going to steal something? Who would take time to dump it out? If you did what would you put the contents into? What would a person be doing to see this opportunity to get something like this out of someone's truck and take what's inside but not the bag? JMO.

That is weird, just leaving the bag and taking the contents. Only thing I can think of at the moment is that perhaps the items were stolen and dispersed amongst luggage of the other campers, or a searcher at the site took them and put the items amongst their stuff so it would be less likely to be detected. Is the bag bright orange (for some reason that's what I picture). If so, that alone could explain the reasoning behind leaving the bag only. But for what purpose it was even taken, who knows.

 

[neesaki]

Where is this coming from that the contents of the EMT bag were taken and the bag left behind?

 

[bessie]

Where is this coming from that the contents of the EMT bag were taken and the bag left behind?

Members are questioning whether only the contents were stolen. Nothing like that has been reported.

This is what we know: an EMT bag was reported stolen from a vehicle. Period. We don't know if it were empty or not, nor whether anything other than the bag itself was taken.

Please watch how you word your posts, folks. If you're speculating, and kicking around ideas, make it clear that's what you're doing.

Thanks.

 

[Onebest]

Members are questioning whether only the contents were stolen. Nothing like that has been reported.

This is what we know: an EMT bag was reported stolen from a vehicle. Period. We don't know if it were empty or not, nor whether anything other than the bag itself was taken.

Please watch how you word your posts, folks. If you're speculating, and kicking around ideas, make it clear that's what you're doing.

Thanks.

Sorry, that was me speculating and I should have been more clear.

 

[SuperTmo]

Why did DK go 1/2 mile up the road to get cell phone coverage when they already had it?

Wouldn't that have put him at the upper campground and he would see that other people were there?

Anyway, I don't think the elderly couple camping had people coming and going before Deorr disappeared, I think that the adult children came up to help search. Some of the posts make it sound like this couple had a revolving door on their campsite and that one of their visitors could have taken the baby. But I don't think that is what SB was meaning at all.