ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[ReadySet]

So than what about the Sheriff saying "we searched thoroughly and I am 99% sure he is not up here"?

Was he wrong? Or do we all go to that 1%?

I believe the sheriff said "99% sure Deorr was at the campsite"; not in regard to if he wasn't up there.

 

[giagreen]

I still think a mountain lion got him.
IMO its the only thing that adds up. And in that area its more likely then an abduction by a person.

 

[ReadySet]

Bowerman is “99 percent sure” DeOrr was at the campground with his parents, DeOrr Kunz Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, great-grandfather, Robert Walton, and Isaac Reinwand, a friend of the grandfather, when the 2-year-old was last seen.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

 

[desert-blue]

Regarding my long-winded post a few pages back. I understand why the Sherriff would have thought DeOrr had simply gotten lost. I even understand how it may have taken a period of time for him to consider the other possibilities. Not a few of us on here have said ourselves, who would go to a remote campsite to kidnap a child? I would be willing to bet that they have had similar missing children’s cases where the child wandered off and was found by SAR. I’m assuming they have not had any true stranger abduction kidnappings. The human brain goes to what it knows so I think it’s perfectly reasonable that the events panned out as they did.
My point was rather that some of us on here point out how the message has changed or things aren’t right. I think those inconsistencies can be accounted for by looking at the disappearance and investigation as a process that was constantly changing.
My belief is that DeOrr is somewhere up there in a crack or crevice and hasn’t been found. There are enough cases where searches were conducted and the bodies not found to later have it turn up in the same area.
Jesse Capen (a full grown adult male) wasn’t found for 4 years even though “In the past three years, hundreds of volunteers have scoured the desert looking for Capen’s remains.” This was in the dessert with little brush. How much smaller was DeOrr and how much more complicated is the geography of Idaho?
All MOO.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22314861/denver-mans-search-lost-dutchman-mine-likely-ended

I can go along with thinking that he might be up there but the behavior of the parents seems to paint a different picture to me. Why are they not up there at all times themselves scouring the mountainsides and searching way beyond the original search area? The parents are the people closest to the case, they know Deorr and his personality, and they seem to be leaning pretty strongly towards abduction rather than lost boy. They were there - they must also think there was a window of time and opportunity for someone to have taken him (and it would also explain why NO trace has been found). There are billboards now and a documentary in the works, but the sheriff is deterring organized professional search crews from volunteering to come in and look for him on the mountain. I find it baffling.

 

[jbelle]

Regarding my long-winded post a few pages back. I understand why the Sherriff would have thought DeOrr had simply gotten lost. I even understand how it may have taken a period of time for him to consider the other possibilities. Not a few of us on here have said ourselves, who would go to a remote campsite to kidnap a child? I would be willing to bet that they have had similar missing children’s cases where the child wandered off and was found by SAR. I’m assuming they have not had any true stranger abduction kidnappings. The human brain goes to what it knows so I think it’s perfectly reasonable that the events panned out as they did.
My point was rather that some of us on here point out how the message has changed or things aren’t right. I think those inconsistencies can be accounted for by looking at the disappearance and investigation as a process that was constantly changing.
My belief is that DeOrr is somewhere up there in a crack or crevice and hasn’t been found. There are enough cases where searches were conducted and the bodies not found to later have it turn up in the same area.

Jesse Capen (a full grown adult male) wasn’t found for 4 years even though “In the past three years, hundreds of volunteers have scoured the desert looking for Capen’s remains.” This was in the dessert with little brush. How much smaller was DeOrr and how much more complicated is the geography of Idaho?
All MOO.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22314861/denver-mans-search-lost-dutchman-mine-likely-ended

MUCH smaller, and in CAMO! Great post!

 

[desert-blue]

So than what about the Sheriff saying "we searched thoroughly and I am 99% sure he is not up here"?

Was he wrong? Or do we all go to that 1%?

I think he said he was quite certain he was not in the creek or the reservoir (not sure if used a percent of certainty without going back and re-reading everything...). He also said he should have been found the first day. His statements (and actions) have indicated to me that he doesn't think it's likely that the boy just wandered off on his own and has yet to be found. MOO.

 

[Dee10]

How did 18 dogs fail to find a scent? I find this so troubling.

12:50
SB: Exactly! We had…we’ve had a total of uh I believe 18 dogs in there and those dogs should have alerted, you know even after the fact, after the length of time that we’d been looking should alert should that child be in there, but my two scent dogs that were in there initially, they should have found that child. They really should have.

 

[Popeye'sMom]

The above post is just what I think is most likely. At this point, and without further evidence, anything is possible.

 

[Popeye'sMom]

I appreciate eveyone’s opinion’s and input. I try and look at eveything that is proposed here with, hopefully, an open mind and an eye to what makes the most sense.
If we were to put down on paper everything that has been said by all parties, all pieces of evidence (or lack thereof), the searches, the supposed witnesses, the timelines, the parents who are obviously grieving, everything - no one theory would explain it all. I think we have to come to a conclusion (or at least I have come to the conclusion) that some information has to be discounted to make any one theory work. I guess it’s up to each individual here to decide what information they will discount.

 

[ILOKAL]

MUCH smaller, and in CAMO! Great post!

Ever since DeOrr's disappearance from a heavily forested area, every single time we drive somewhere I observe the wood lines that are so tightly planted with trees, shrubs, underbrush and the like on a "forest" floor thickly covered with leaves, sticks, pine needles, and the like, I just can't imagine HOW DeOrr could possibly be found. Unless everything was perfect so that a scent dog might have tracked him, in reality, I just don't expect that he would have been found. Mountain lions have a scent that dogs just naturally fear. Mountain lion urine must be used to train those dogs that hunt mountain lions. I just can't seem to get past DeOrr being taken by a Mountain Lion. To me it's the scenario that makes the most sense.

 

[giagreen]

Ever since DeOrr's disappearance from a heavily forested area, every single time we drive somewhere I observe the wood lines that are so tightly planted with trees, shrubs, underbrush and the like on a "forest" floor thickly covered with leaves, sticks, pine needles, and the like, I just can't imagine HOW DeOrr could possibly be found. Unless everything was perfect so that a scent dog might have tracked him, in reality, I just don't expect that he would have been found. Mountain lions have a scent that dogs just naturally fear. Mountain lion urine must be used to train those dogs that hunt mountain lions. I just can't seem to get past DeOrr being taken by a Mountain Lion. To me it's the scenario that makes the most sense.

That's where I'm at. I can't get past the chance of a mountain lion getting him.

I think its interesting that every time I read about mountain lions it talks about how a ml will use things such as an embankment to hunt and hide from its prey and ironically the last reported sighting of DeOrr was by an embankment. These cats are huge. They only bury their prey when they can't finish it...like when they kill a deer or cow. A ml would of ate DeOree whole. They eat bones and all.
They attack at the bottom of the neck with its main goal of snapping its preys neck or suffocating it. There really probably wouldn't of been much noise if any. And they kill if there is an opportunity...a ml would of definitely had an opportunity. There are reasons there are warnings and safety tips about children and the dangers of mountain lions. Children throw off mountain lions with their high-pitched voices and sharp movements causing a mountain lion to think they are prey. And if they left diapers or food anything out that would have attracted raccoons squirrels or anything like that then those animals would of attracted a mountain lion. I think the odds are high on this one.

 

[wondering25]

is anyone else getting a big popup survey window when on this site that obscures the posts?

 

[giagreen]

is anyone else getting a big popup survey window when on this site that obscures the posts?

No. But I am on taptalk on my phone. Not sure what your useing but sometimes I would on my desktop.

 

[ILOKAL]

is anyone else getting a big popup survey window when on this site that obscures the posts?

I'm not getting that on my iPad. Is it a WS survey?

 

[wondering25]

I'm not getting that on my iPad. Is it a WS survey?

no it's about what internet company i use. i havent gotten it again...

 

[Rayemonde]

How did 18 dogs fail to find a scent? I find this so troubling.

12:50
SB: Exactly! We had…we’ve had a total of uh I believe 18 dogs in there and those dogs should have alerted, you know even after the fact, after the length of time that we’d been looking should alert should that child be in there, but my two scent dogs that were in there initially, they should have found that child. They really should have.

Maybe just bad environmental conditions for following scents.

https://houndandthefound.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/how-scent-and-airflow-works/

 

[Hoosier952]

The only problem I have with the mountain lion theory is lack of evidence.

No one found any blood. If we assume no one had eyes on Deorr for 20 minutes, that meant a mountain lion would have had 20 minutes to haul him off, consume him, and clean up any remaining blood, or hauled him off out of the search area and not caused any wounds big enough to cause bleeding. A toddler's skin would be quite delicate and easy to puncture. I just can't believe that a fresh attack wouldn't leave behind some evidence.

 

[ILOKAL]

Maybe just bad environmental conditions for following scents.

https://houndandthefound.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/how-scent-and-airflow-works/

Yes, there's a LOT to be said about downwind scent. Wildlife who sense danger will actually move downwind to keep dogs from finding them. IMO

 

[ILOKAL]

The only problem I have with the mountain lion theory is lack of evidence.

No one found any blood. If we assume no one had eyes on Deorr for 20 minutes, that meant a mountain lion would have had 20 minutes to haul him off, consume him, and clean up any remaining blood, or hauled him off out of the search area and not caused any wounds big enough to cause bleeding. A toddler's skin would be quite delicate and easy to puncture. I just can't believe that a fresh attack wouldn't leave behind some evidence.

Actually, the questions you have describe a mountain lion. A broken neck won't leave a blood trail. These big cats don't really leave anything behind (except some larger bones from LARGE animals), especially blood. To survive, a mountain lion must consume at least 20 lbs of MEAT per day. It's not too hard to figure what would have taken place. Even just a little research will show an interested person why a mountain lion IS the most likely culprit and that's because they're stealth, quick, ambush killers that leave little, if any, evidence in their wake.

 

[giagreen]

A mountain lion kill really isn't as messy as you'd think.
Here at this link is a left over kill from a ml and its just some fur and bones. No blood or anything. If this ml had finished his whole kill there would of been nothing. No blood or anything. And its actually very rare how this ml left its kill. And if a ml has cubs she will hunt within her home rang and bring the food back to her cubs. A ml home rang is huge and a ml will usually run up to 10mph

http://custercountynews.com/cms/news/story-605263.html