ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[dek]

Was it reported that GGP's dog was at the campsite or was that just a rumor? My dog would wag his bottom with a chew toy in his mouth for a human intruder, if he notice them at all, but he can sense another animal a block away and let's you know it. Seems like the dog would have alerted if an animal came into the campground. So it makes more sense that, IF, he were taken by animal it would have happened far enough away that the dog wouldn't notice.


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SM Rumor reinforced today on FB by JM. She said her dog and ggpa's dog were there. Her dog didn't like IR so had to be tied up most the time. Moderator please remove if not allowed.:silenced:

 

[giagreen]

I thought this was interesting because if this is true and if a ml did get to DeOrr one way or another and if it was by a new mother cat then she would travel a great distance back to her cub with any prey. They can run up to 10mph or so....

"Mountain Lions are capable of breeding at any time during the year. In the west, it has been discovered that the kittens are usually born during June or July."

http://www.nps.gov/brca/learn/nature/mountainlion.htm

 

[Rayemonde]

I thought this was interesting because if this is true and if a ml did get to DeOrr one way or another and if it was by a new mother cat then she would travel a great distance back to her cub with any prey. They can run up to 10mph or so....

"Mountain Lions are capable of breeding at any time during the year. In the west, it has been discovered that the kittens are usually born during June or July."

http://www.nps.gov/brca/learn/nature/mountainlion.htm

But how far would a mother lion carry her prey?

It also says in that article that as a rule, mountain lions avoid people and all things associated with people.

 

[giagreen]

I'm sorry, but that's a prime example of the sort of rubbish being spread on the internet by mountain lion hunters. How could an animal possibly shut off its scent?? They're animals, not supernatural beings.

But why do you think they would think this?
True or not hunters didn't just sit up one day and come to this conclusion. Something caused multiple hunters to come to their conclusion after hunting these animals for many of years. Its because their dogs are not reacting to what they are trained to. Do you by chance have a link to a true hunter disputing this?

 

[Rayemonde]

But why do you think they would think this?
True or not hunters didn't just sit up one day and come to this conclusion. Something caused multiple hunters to come to their conclusion after hunting these animals for many of years. Its because their dogs are not reacting to what they are trained to. Do you by chance have a link to a true hunter disputing this?

Do you have a link from a scientific study showing that mountain lions can shut-off their scent?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

But why do you think they would think this?
True or not hunters didn't just sit up one day and come to this conclusion. Something caused multiple hunters to come to their conclusion after hunting these animals for many of years. Its because their dogs are not reacting to what they are trained to. Do you by chance have a link to a true hunter disputing this?

Scent is spread by discarded skin cells that slough off our bodies. I don't think mountain lions can control their skin cells. It doesn't sound reasonable to me. If they have the ability to turn off their scent why isn't it just always off, and then predators couldn't find them?

 

[Rayemonde]

There was a link posted some pages back about why dogs lose scents in certain environmental conditions. I think it was a blog called The Found and the Hound or something like that? Nothing to do with an animal suddenly deciding to "turn off" its scent.

A mountain lion will have an odour too, like any animal, that a dog could smell if it waspool close enough. Apart from shedding skin and leaving a scent to track. It couldn't just decide to shut off its body odour, any more than you or I could.

 

[giagreen]

Do you have a link from a scientific study showing that mountain lions can shut-off their scent?

I'm not going to argue with you because I believe something you don't. I asked you for a link because I'm actually interested in this. And thought maybe you'd have more to base your argument on other then just the assumption on how things should work.

 

[dek]

Do you have a link from a scientific study showing that mountain lions can shut-off their scent?

BBM
Quoted from previous article. "That cat watched us walk 100 yards below him two hours ago, waited until we'd passed, and took off." When a lion is hunting or alarmed, he explains, it reflexively shuts down its scent, which is why the dogs can no longer pick up a trail. Biologists haven't proved this yet, but it has long been axiomatic among experienced lion men. In any case, this lion has too much of a head start and is no longer leaving enough scent to follow. "

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2006/06/lion-dogs

 

[giagreen]

But how far would a mother lion carry her prey?

It also says in that article that as a rule, mountain lions avoid people and all things associated with people.

I've posted before links to credible and respectable sources on how far a mother ml will travel back to her cubs with food. Yes, its greater then just 3 miles. I just found it interesting that they say cubs are typically born in June or July. I hadn't seen that before. That was one thing that kept me on the fence. Because all along I've been thinking if a ml did carry him off out side of the search area...it would probably be a mother ml. I know they can have babies all year long. But seems like in the west June July are the typical months.

Now again. All I did was say I found it interesting. I shouldnt have to defend myself for think that that is interesting. I just thought I'd share sinse I had the link and its from a pretty respectable source. If you want answers to questions to disprove what I am saying then go find the links and prove me wrong rather then asking me questions I've all ready answered to try and disprove what I believe to be facts. Have a good night Rayemonde

 

[Rayemonde]

A reputable source? Isn't it an online magazine for hunters? If you're going to make extraordinary claims that go against scientific knowledge, you need a better source than that if you want to convince anybody.

ETA the other source you linked to, about when mountain lions breed, was more convincing because it was at least an official government site. And it stated that as a rule, mountain lions avoid people and anything to do with people. Like campgrounds.

 

[Mickshawn]

"When a lion is hunting or alarmed, he explains, it reflexively shuts down its scent, which is why the dogs can no longer pick up a trail."

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2006/06/lion-dogs



Another big assumption people make is thinking that dogs will help fight off a ml attack. But that isn't true. I know we have all probably seen dogs getting attacked by ml on YouTube videos. Dogs will actually attract ml more. And as you can see in some of the videos dogs have no clue till its to late and the ml is dragging them away.

I see "this" quote in this article: "Biologists haven't proved this yet" (I'm a science person, so I'm going with the biologists on this one.)

I just don't see how this can be....Cats sweat through their pads, so each step taken is going to leave a scent (as well as scent from anal glands, which would be more intentional). I just put in a call to my Veterinarian who also happens to be a hunter......I'll report back when he gets back to me.

"Cats have some sweat glands, but their skin is covered in fur, so this minimizes the amount of cooling the sweat can provide. Paw pads have the most sweat glands."

http://www.cathealth.com/how-and-why/how-do-cats-sweat

 

[ILOKAL]

A reputable source? Isn't it an online magazine for hunters? If you're going to make extraordinary claims that go against scientific knowledge, you need a better source than that if you want to convince anybody.

ETA the other source you linked to, about when mountain lions breed, was more convincing because it was at least an official government site. And it stated that as a rule, mountain lions avoid people and anything to do with people. Like campgrounds.

Field and Stream is the most trusted authority on hunting and fishing and has been published since the late 1800s. There are many sources. This is merely one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_&_Stream

 

[Mickshawn]

Field and Stream is the most trusted authority on hunting and fishing and has been published since the late 1800s. There are many sources. This is merely one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_&_Stream

Yeah, but are they Biologists or just avid outdoorsy people who like to hunt and fish?

 

[giagreen]

Yeah, but are they Biologists or just avid outdoorsy people who like to hunt and fish?

Jonathon Kibler the guy who was in the article I posted isn't a biologists. But he has been hunting ml over 30 years and has wrote several books on it. He also has been training dogs specifically for ml hunts for over 30 years and has an excellent reputation from anyone who's ever bought one of his dogs.

 

[ILOKAL]

Yeah, but are they Biologists or just avid outdoorsy people who like to hunt and fish?

I'm not sure who you mean by they. I guess you'd need to check out their editorial staff and contributions through the years if you want to find out.

 

[Yvettea]

How is it relevant to the recovery of DeOrr? If the mountain lion leaves no scent when it's being tracked or the mountain lion leaves no scent because it was never there? Either of those leave us with no information to help find DeOrr because either way the dogs can't track the lion who may or may not be there.

 

[Rayemonde]

https://m.facebook.com/129135007110...10347558/?type=3&source=48&ref=content_filter

Confirmation of DeOrr's birthmark.

 

[bessie]

Does anyone have a link to the post about the dogs?

 

[Onebest]

Does anyone have a link to the post about the dogs?

I believe this is from a closed FB discussion group that JM has been posting on and answering questions. Not sure we can discuss it.....?