ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #15

[TheTruthWillOut]

What is the story on the diaper? All I vaguely remember about it is that TBC mentioned it and/or disposed of it? So I'm not sure if LE/Dogs had any access to it.

Sorry if I missed the discussion about this.

 

[desert-blue]

Klein doesn't know if DeOrr was there on Friday, much less whether he was dead or alive, but as long as you think he does, that's all that matters (to him). IMVHO

I tend to think that he was there on Friday and I'd like to think he was alive. I was just trying to make sense of another theory. No one knows what happened to DeOrr (at least not the public).

 

[TeaTime]

I am excited that there is movement on this case. Klein says he has witnesses (plural) with direct knowledge of, and have provided, information previously withheld. SB says they have new leads. SOMETHING is in the works.

With Klein's no so subtle warning to someone that lying to an FBI agent is a Federal crime, it sounds like the witnesses are trying to back out of what they have stated and telling the agents 'no it wasn't me". What do you think?

 

[ILOKAL]

I am excited that there is movement on this case. Klein says he has witnesses (plural) with direct knowledge of, and have provided, information previously withheld. SB says they have new leads. SOMETHING is in the works.

With Klein's no so subtle warning to someone that lying to an FBI agent is a Federal crime, it sounds like the witnesses are trying to back out of what they have stated and telling the agents 'no it wasn't me". What do you think?

A witness with direct knowledge of what? Just direct knowledge. Well, everyone THERE has direct knowledge of SOME things, so he can make that statement with a "clear" conscience. Information previously "withheld" doesn't have to mean anything more than something that someone previously forgot but now remembers and it certainly doesn't have to be anything nefarious. I'm pretty sure LE's new leads have nothing whatsoever to do with Klein. It may just simply mean they have realized something they didn't realize before. Nothing nefarious. Yeah, "someone" (a "witness"?) may be backing off whatever story it was he/she told him which of course would make him look foolish. He actually sounded angry, IMO.

 

[Dee10]

I am excited that there is movement on this case. Klein says he has witnesses (plural) with direct knowledge of, and have provided, information previously withheld. SB says they have new leads. SOMETHING is in the works.

With Klein's no so subtle warning to someone that lying to an FBI agent is a Federal crime, it sounds like the witnesses are trying to back out of what they have stated and telling the agents 'no it wasn't me". What do you think?

Oh, I didn't think about that...you maybe right. My first thought was he knows someone(s) didn't tell the truth about a certain aspect (I was thinking probably the timeline) and it was another warning 'it's not too late to tell the truth'.

I hope this case keeps moving too!

 

[ClaireNC]

What is the story on the diaper? All I vaguely remember about it is that TBC mentioned it and/or disposed of it? So I'm not sure if LE/Dogs had any access to it.

Sorry if I missed the discussion about this.

IIRC The story/rumor with the diaper was that TBC found one hanging in a trash bag in a tree (which is a common thing to do when camping). She took the diaper/trash bag and threw it in the trash can near where the church volunteers where set up. This was on either Saturday or Sunday during the search. I don't know if that story was ever confirmed.

I've also wondered if LE were aware of it and if they retrieved it, etc. I don't think they have ever said.

 

[ClaireNC]

I am excited that there is movement on this case. Klein says he has witnesses (plural) with direct knowledge of, and have provided, information previously withheld. SB says they have new leads. SOMETHING is in the works.

With Klein's no so subtle warning to someone that lying to an FBI agent is a Federal crime, it sounds like the witnesses are trying to back out of what they have stated and telling the agents 'no it wasn't me". What do you think?

I took his comment as a warning to people on social media to not spread lies.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

@Kammie. You're besties with Klein. Could you do us a favour: invite him round, give him a couple of glasses of wine and log him on here to clear a few things up? Would be most useful. Thanks :lol:

 

[pepelepolecat]

I have wondered that too, but Klein seems to think he was there on Friday. He didn't say whether he was alive or not, though, so I guess it's possible. Would the cadaver dogs have been able to pick up anything? (Or do you think he did not come on the trip at all?)

SB has also said he's 99 percent sure he was at the campsite.

(not directed towards you but just in general) I have difficulty with the conspiracy theories I've heard. I just cannot believe that an accident happened *before the trip and the four POIs, including whichever ones were to blame, were all able to cover it up so well and snow the other POIs as well as LEOs to the point that no one can find him now. (all opinion)

I do think an accident or deliberate act at the campsite is possible. But I also think it's still entirely possible that little DeOrr wandered off and met some ill fate and will (hopefully) be found when it warms up again. All just my opinion and personal beliefs.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

IIRC The story/rumor with the diaper was that TBC found one hanging in a trash bag in a tree (which is a common thing to do when camping). She took the diaper/trash bag and threw it in the trash can near where the church volunteers where set up. This was on either Saturday or Sunday during the search. I don't know if that story was ever confirmed.

I've also wondered if LE were aware of it and if they retrieved it, etc. I don't think they have ever said.

I read her statement about this and I'm pretty sure she said she checked with the Sheriff before she binned it. He'd have got through more than one nappy though since 9pm the night before.

 

[ILOKAL]

I read her statement about this and I'm pretty sure she said she checked with the Sheriff before she binned it. He'd have got through more than one nappy though since 9pm the night before.

^^^yes, this! Just the other day someone posted on this thread that same account and said Mrs. Cleggs got permission from LE to discard the diaper.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I read her statement about this and I'm pretty sure she said she checked with the Sheriff before she binned it. He'd have got through more than one nappy though since 9pm the night before.

Not necessarily. He was at an age when potty training is common, and he may've only been wearing diapers to sleep or travel in (complete conjecture on my part) if he were potty training.

 

[MBK]

Is it possible that the parents left DeOrr with GGPA and Isaac when they went into town and then when they came back they couldn't find DeOrr? Maybe they didn't want to admit to leaving their child with two people who possibly aren't the best caretakers? I'm not sure how it could go from that to a massive cover-up, is the only thing. I would think the parents' concern over finding their son (and if someone harmed him, seeing that that person was held accountable) would override any fear of telling the truth that they left their child with GGPA and Isaac. I guess this scenario probably doesn't make sense.

ETA: Also, no scent of DeOrr was found, so I think I'll have to abandon this theory...

This is a novel idea! HOWEVER, one "factoid" that makes me think otherwise is . . . .the purchase of french fries (jo jo's, whatever). By the time they got back to the campsite, the french fries would surely be cold. I remember being very surprised at how far away the store was from the campsite. It is so far that the trip seemed . . . frivolous . . . ridiculous . . . at best. I mean, wouldn't an experienced, tough camper have made do by cutting up a diaper and using it as a pad or something? but I don't think that they were very well prepared for the trip, diaper-wise, food-wise . . .

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Here is a random question.

Is it independently known what time they left home on the Thursday?

 

[wi_woodsman]

I took his comment as a warning to people on social media to not spread lies.

so lying on Facebook is a federal crime? I better remove my profile first thing.

 

[kammiemc]

@Kammie. You're besties with Klein. Could you do us a favour: invite him round, give him a couple of glasses of wine and log him on here to clear a few things up? Would be most useful. Thanks :lol:

Haha. Well I am not sure if he would consider me a bestie. But he doesmt want to clobber me, so that's good.


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[CoverMeCagney]

Not necessarily. He was at an age when potty training is common, and he may've only been wearing diapers to sleep or travel in (complete conjecture on my part) if he were potty training.

Very true, I considered this as soon as I posted. He may only have been in night time nappies.

 

[AbbeyBabbey]

Is it possible that the parents left DeOrr with GGPA and Isaac when they went into town and then when they came back they couldn't find DeOrr? Maybe they didn't want to admit to leaving their child with two people who possibly aren't the best caretakers? I'm not sure how it could go from that to a massive cover-up, is the only thing. I would think the parents' concern over finding their son (and if someone harmed him, seeing that that person was held accountable) would override any fear of telling the truth that they left their child with GGPA and Isaac. I guess this scenario probably doesn't make sense.

ETA: Also, no scent of DeOrr was found, so I think I'll have to abandon this theory...

Please don't discount your thought because the dogs did not find a scent. There are multiple reasons why they didn't/wouldn't, including not being trained well enough to do so.

Working off of your theory:
Say J&D left little Deorr at the campground with ggp in charge when they went to Leadore and that Klein’s “new” statement from the reluctant witness is the store clerk. Taking into account that she had previously stated that she was not sure that she saw little Deorr, she may have finally admitted to Klein that she, indeed, did NOT see little Deorr (this would be a “person with direct knowledge&#8221. She may have been reluctant to state that initially because of all of the repercussions that would have (AND DID!) cause, especially if shejust was NOT sure.

J&D get back to the campground and ggp tells them that little Deorr is nowhere to be found (he could have been napping in the camper,ggp could have fallen asleep, any number of things could have happened where little Deorr was gone in a flash without ggp witnessing it) OR J&D could have been the ones to notice little Deorr missing from the camper. They frantically search for him and then call 911. This scenario would allow time for any 4-legged or 2-legged beast in the area to disappear little Deorr. All of their statements thereafter could have been made to protect the failing ggp. It is not unrealistic to think that everything they reported was, in fact, true but that it just didn’t happen in the sequence they implied. Their focus was on getting help to find little Deorr and to do this, they had to dispel any rumors that they had done something nefarious.

Search crews and (un/under-trained) dogs arrive along with follow-up resources. The parents are frantic and out of their minds (who could fault them?) and in a state of shock/panic and may have made some misstatements (again, who can fault them?).

With this scenario, all the rest falls right into place.J&D do NOT have any direct knowledge of what happened to their little boy and neither does ggp. But IR just might (IMO) if he is the one that Klein is focused on but Klein needs updated statements from J&Dand ggp to prove his “theory” (which is all it really is) and thus the public threats he is making to parties that he is unable to acquire a statement/updatedstatement/admission from. Klein has a presumption that he knows “how” (little Deorr was killed by someone at the campground with whatever implement was available, including bare hands) but he does not knowwhy (as in why would a stranger have a reason to kill a small child?).

I am not stuck on the notion that anyone did something to little Deorr. I’m simply expounding onKlein’s working theory.

I am not ruling out the wander off and/or cougar attack as that is the most likely scenario IMO. I grew up in the Sierra Nevada and was trained very early on about cougar (and other wildlife) behavior and was taught to respect their territory and know that I was a prespasser and possible prey. Klein’s discounting/dismissing this makes me have serious questions about him. A good ole boy from Texas who primarily tracks down absconding parents just does not have the training, knowledge and experience of living amongst the type of wild animals and/or pitfalls that are found within the Idaho forest. Also, I have not read anywhere that he has actually visited the campsite to have a good understanding of the environment that little Deorr disappeared from. All he has done is read what information that LE has shared with him, gotten their opinions, and done follow-up interviews with a few. All of this tells me that he does not have enough knowledge to make the statements that he is making/reject what he has rejected. He has focused on one thing and one thing only (that in his limited experience he has concluded) and is setting about making that theory materialize.

I wondered throughout the search why LE didn’t bring in a professional cougar hunter (perhaps a native) and/or dogs to track cougar to find resting places and any possible evidence left behind. Perhaps someone can do that in the spring but I don’t know how effective it might at that point.

In regards to arrests/convictions for a “murder”, I don’t see how that could happen without a confession and/or remains. Family is family and no one in the family is going to point a finger at/accuse anyone in the family of murder without an eye-witness account. Without remains or a confession, anyone outside of the family cannot and will not be convicted.

What is most evident to me is that J&D loved little Deorr and would never, ever hurt him, including disappearing him after an accident. To accuse them without ANY proof is unconscionable and is the highest form of evil I can imagine. IMO

 

[minnermomma]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...emhi-sheriff-deserves-a-huge-texas-sized-hug/

“By golly, I couldn’t believe it. His Facebook page was right here and the photos on the camera were definitely the same guy in his Facebook pictures,” Bowerman says.

Bowerman told Garcia he’d mail back the camera. Garcia insisted he only send back the memory card and told Bowerman to keep the camera as a token of thanks.

Bowerman refused and sent the camera back – even refusing reimbursement for shipping fees


I will have to admit, when this article came across my news feed, I had to do a double take! Klein came immediately to mind and I'm thinking WTF?
Enjoyed the read about this good news plus has a very nice vacay photo of Bowerman.

 

[MBK]

Very true, I considered this as soon as I posted. He may only have been in night time nappies.

Or, a lot of boys are late in the game. He may not have been potty training at all.

On the other hand, potty training accidents are one of the reasons for violence against toddlers.