ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #15

[renarde]

I really think the "pressure" being applied at the minute involves people involved in the black Rubicon "farce" as KIC put it.

I didn't know people in Leadore had mentioned the Jeep.

 

[bessie]

http://www.postregister.com/article...vestigator-believes-deorr-kunz-jr-dead#sidr-1

Klein said the suspicious black Jeep previously reported by people in Leadore and DeOrr’s mother, Jessica Mitchell, was unfounded.

“That was a farce, we know that for a fact,” Klein said.

JM did not report the black Jeep Rubicon.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

It almost makes it sound like he is stating JM lied with the intention of misleading the investigation. Am I reading that correctly?

If Klein know for a fact its a farce/misleading/lie then all persons involved in it would, I'd imagine, be getting a bit twitchy around about now.

I didn't know people in Leadore had mentioned the Jeep.

Me either. It could be Klein misspeaking. But if there were Leadore resident(s) also involved in this farce they also should be worried.

My question is why would anyone outside of the group get themselves involved in this? (if it is the case)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

JM did not report the black Jeep Rubicon.

Who did? I can't remember nuthin' no more!

 

[bessie]

I didn't know people in Leadore had mentioned the Jeep.

Vilt said a woman came forward with that story. Only then did we hear that JM recalled a man fitting the description in the store that morning. Perhaps this is part of the reason the family no longer wanted to work with Vilt. JMO


"Private detective Frank Vilt. Vilt said there have been several tips about a suspicious man nearby in Leadore and further away in Swan Valley, east of Idaho Falls.

[...]

The man is described as being in his 50s and having whitish, gray hair with curls at the bottom. He was driving a new-looking black Jeep Rubicon.

Kunz's mother recalls seeing the man at a store in Leadore the morning of her son's disappearance. Vilt said a couple reported seeing a similar-looking man July 18 -- first while hiking in the Palisades and later at a convenience store in Swan Valley.

The woman who saw the man in Swan Valley asked Local News 8 not to identify her, but she said the man "was just staring at my family, just watching us."

She said he kept looking at her husband and four children, including one Kunz's age."

http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-leads-in-missing-deorr-kunz-case/35276162

 

[CoverMeCagney]

What was the thing right at the beginning with dad saying something like "and here's the problem, I've got a black truck". What was that in relation to?

And also, when Klein says he spoke to the family at the weekend and it was emotional, does he mean the extended family who have supposedly engaged him, or the parents, or both? Has there been any clarification whether J&D are working with Klein?

 

[bessie]

It almost makes it sound like he is stating JM lied with the intention of misleading the investigation. Am I reading that correctly?

No, though the reporter makes it sound that way.

 

[ClaireNC]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/

DeOrr investigator: I think we know ‘how,’ we’re just trying to figure out ‘why’
National 0 Updated at 4:12 pm, January 18th, 2016 By: Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com

 

[krig101]

CoverMeCagney

That's exactly what I was wondering


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[Hoosier952]

What was the thing right at the beginning with dad saying something like "and here's the problem, I've got a black truck". What was that in relation to?

And also, when Klein says he spoke to the family at the weekend and it was emotional, does he mean the extended family who have supposedly engaged him, or the parents, or both? Has there been any clarification whether J&D are working with Klein?

BBM- I believe it was reported by the store clerk that someone with a boy matching Deorr's description showed up at the store the evening Deorr disappeared driving a black truck. I'm not sure if that story was ever confirmed by LE.

The other question you asked, I don't think we know the answer. I know I'm curious as to which family he talked to.

 

[ILOKAL]

http://www.postregister.com/article...vestigator-believes-deorr-kunz-jr-dead#sidr-1

"Klein said he called and told DeOrr’s family members about his theories over the weekend and said it was a “very emotional” phone call. Klein said even his team of investigators became caught up with emotion while discussing the case in what Klein calls his “war room.”"

To me that could speak volumes.

 

[ZooSleuth]

More from: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/

"There was no forced abduction. This includes the black Rubicon (theory). We can find no corroborating statements and no corroborating witnesses. We can find nothing that can corroborate this. So we are absolutely, beyond a reasonable doubt sure was not an abduction case."

---

Not sure I agree with the logic used here. Similar to what somebody else said upthread about the animal abduction theory, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

BTW I don't believe Deorr was taken by an animal or that he was abducted by a stranger.

 

[ILOKAL]

Hmmm. "Information 'gathered' by a witness" and "a witness with direct knowledge, not hearsay" and "previously withheld information" are all very interesting but confusing. How many witnesses does this suggest?

There is Witness A who gathered information. If the information was gathered from an eye witness, for example, (Witness B), then it is not hearsay, but rather direct knowledge of what Witness B said and which Witness B withheld from LE. This suggests 2 witnesses but Witness A has come forward. Witness B is still reluctant?

Witness A could be anyone from a family member, pastor or PI. Witness B could be anyone who either witnessed what happened to DeOrr (present at the scene) or witnessed some post incident behavior that was suspect.

The Witness withholding the information is said to be fearful of coming forward because of the publicity of the case? This doesn't sound right. Why would publicity create fear of reporting what was/was not seen?

Why would the family not want to post a $10K reward? Could it be because Witness B would be more likely to come forward and tell things that the family does not want revealed?

Not an abduction by human or animal. He didn't wander off. He was on the mountain and there is a witness who knows more than he/she has told.

The truth will out. If Witness B was questioned by LE previously and lied, he/she is facing obstruction of justice charges. Hopefully this threat is enough for this person to come forward and reveal what he/she knows.

What you're describing in your second paragraph is hearsay, IMO.

 

[krig101]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/


Klein: Where we go from here is pretty simple. We are continuing to develop our case regarding two possible (scenarios).

Number one – that an accident happened up there and DeOrr is possibly still up there and that he just was missed.

The second (scenario) is there was an intended removal of the body from that area. Our concern continues to be, as we have visited with a lot of the first responders that were there that day and witnesses that were there that day, that none of the dogs were able to hint on any scent. We are concerned with that.



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[Purplepixii]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/


Klein: Where we go from here is pretty simple. We are continuing to develop our case regarding two possible (scenarios).

Number one – that an accident happened up there and DeOrr is possibly still up there and that he just was missed.

The second (scenario) is there was an intended removal of the body from that area. Our concern continues to be, as we have visited with a lot of the first responders that were there that day and witnesses that were there that day, that none of the dogs were able to hint on any scent. We are concerned with that.

Question: How can either scenario 1 or scenario 2 happen without at least 1 of the 4 being involved bearing in mind animals & random abductors have been ruled out (by KIC)?

:thinking:

 

[bessie]

What was the thing right at the beginning with dad saying something like "and here's the problem, I've got a black truck". What was that in relation to?

Transcript between the 7:00 and 8:00 minute marks which discusses the store.

Reporter: Is there any rumors that you've seen or anything you want to clear up, Jessica?

JM: I just . . . Somebody at the store, um, in Leadore, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only . . .

DK: Here's the problem.

JM: . . . other . . .

DK: My pickup truck's black.

JM: [indicating DK] He drives a black truck.

DK: As a family we went down to get some, to get a few things.

Reporter: So it could have been you?

JM: Earlier, it was earlier that day.

DK: It was me, but it, but they claim it was at 6:00 that evening and I, we, we still were with Search and Rescue until, what [turning to JM] a quarter till four?

JM: Yeah, from . . .

DK: We didn't never, we never . . . we haven't left the camp since 1:00 that afternoon. So it's just a lot of hearsay . . . and . . .

Reporter: Was anybody camping around you?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-1&p=11929315#post11929315

 

[krig101]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/


Klein: Where we go from here is pretty simple. We are continuing to develop our case regarding two possible (scenarios).

Number one – that an accident happened up there and DeOrr is possibly still up there and that he just was missed.

The second (scenario) is there was an intended removal of the body from that area. Our concern continues to be, as we have visited with a lot of the first responders that were there that day and witnesses that were there that day, that none of the dogs were able to hint on any scent. We are concerned with that.



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Question: How can either scenario 1 or scenario 2 happen without at least 1 of the 4 being involved bearing in mind animals & random abductors have been ruled out (by KIC)?

:thinking:

More from article

At this point we will be coming back up to Idaho very shortly and we will be re-doing those (interview) so the focus now is on the four folks that were up there that day.

We’re not blaming anybody, we’re not accusing anybody. Now it’s time to focus on those four people and let’s get to the bottom of this thing.



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[ILOKAL]

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...-know-how-were-just-trying-to-figure-out-why/

DeOrr investigator: I think we know ‘how,’ we’re just trying to figure out ‘why’
National 0 Updated at 4:12 pm, January 18th, 2016 By: Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com

They believe it's one of two scenarios, yet they say they know how but not why and they don't know if DeOrr is still on the mountain or was removed from the mountain. Well dang! They know NOTHING! They should be embarrassed to even report that stuff.

 

[ClaireNC]

Question: How can either scenario 1 or scenario 2 happen without at least 1 of the 4 being involved bearing in mind animals & random abductors have been ruled out (by KIC)?

:thinking:

Really sounds to me that he is accusing one of the four without coming out and directly saying it.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Question: How can either scenario 1 or scenario 2 happen without at least 1 of the 4 being involved bearing in mind animals & random abductors have been ruled out (by KIC)?

:thinking:

It has to involve at least 1 of the 4, they just won't state it explicitly until more progress has been made IMO.