ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #15

[Rayemonde]

This "forensic evidence" that Klein says shows little DeOrr is dead... LE haven't mentioned anything like that, and I really can't imagine them giving Klein inside information like that if they weren't ready to announce it publicly.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I don't think little DeOrr was ever at that campground. They drove separately, they slept separately, they left the next day for quite some time, and then little D was gone. I think Great Grandpa was useful because they have *told* him they left D with him and used his memory issues to construct a false memory.

I think GGP believes 100% that he saw little D go towards his parents when it actually never happened. People in the early stages of dementia have issues like this. When my mom's dementia was setting in, she would become absolutely convinced of things that were not possible - for example, she believed her neighbor was coming in her room through the closet.

I think IR was invited along as a convenient scapegoat - someone with a violent criminal history. I think he was fishing and never saw little D there at all, but assumed he was there because JM and DK acted like he was. He lawyered up because he knows he's going to be blamed for this.

I'm shocked by KI coming out with this info - from things they said early on, I felt like they were basically going to be getting paid to find a way to back up JM and DK's claims. I think that's what THEY thought, too, and are shocked that they paid him so much money only to have him turn on them.

I think whatever happened to little D was an accident, but that for some reason JM and DK thought they had to hide it. Ever since he said "I knew I was in trouble" during that first interview, I have thought this. Then them saying that DK has a black truck is a "problem" leads me to believe something happened related to the truck.

Also about the replica comment: I think what he said was "this ISN'T an exact replica", but it wasn't clear so it sounded like he said it IS. He and JM were talking over each other right then.

I just wish he'd had his little blanky with him wherever he ended up. [emoji26]

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I don't think little DeOrr was ever at that campground. They drove separately, they slept separately, they left the next day for quite some time, and then little D was gone. I think Great Grandpa was useful because they have *told* him they left D with him and used his memory issues to construct a false memory.

I think GGP believes 100% that he saw little D go towards his parents when it actually never happened. People in the early stages of dementia have issues like this. When my mom's dementia was setting in, she would become absolutely convinced of things that were not possible - for example, she believed her neighbor was coming in her room through the closet.

I think IR was invited along as a convenient scapegoat - someone with a violent criminal history. I think he was fishing and never saw little D there at all, but assumed he was there because JM and DK acted like he was. He lawyered up because he knows he's going to be blamed for this.

I'm shocked by KI coming out with this info - from things they said early on, I felt like they were basically going to be getting paid to find a way to back up JM and DK's claims. I think that's what THEY thought, too, and are shocked that they paid him so much money only to have him turn on them.

I think whatever happened to little D was an accident, but that for some reason JM and DK thought they had to hide it. Ever since he said "I knew I was in trouble" during that first interview, I have thought this. Then them saying that DK has a black truck is a "problem" leads me to believe something happened related to the truck.

Also about the replica comment: I think what he said was "this ISN'T an exact replica", but it wasn't clear so it sounded like he said it IS. He and JM were talking over each other right then.

I just wish he'd had his little blanky with him wherever he ended up. [emoji26]

I'm also not convinced Deorr made it to the campsite, mainly because there is no forensic evidence to show he was. Did we ever hear about dirty nappies or other kid related rubbish in the campsite bins? Presumably the search dogs smelled his blanket or whatever and still could find zero trace.

I've also wondered if Grandpa is the witness who came forward. Is it confirmed he has dementia? I have had two grandparents with dementia, and it's amazing how they can suddenly have completely lucid moments. My gran, currently in a care home aged 93 with every type of dementia you can have, doesn't know who any of us are when we visit but recently reeled off all our full names and dates of birth and some old addresses and phone numbers. My mum said it was like something suddenly re-wired in her brain and it all came back, seconds later she was gone again.

Anyway, my point being, all is would take is for grandpa to have have been discussing Deorr and saying something like "oh stop going on about it, I never even saw him". Obviously this would be very delicate and possibly unreliable, but would it be enough for the investigation to take the turn it has?

 

[Rayemonde]

LE said previously withheld information, which I took to mean something that someone was intentionally holding back, so I don't think it's dementia related...

I really hope it isn't just one of the family saying something like "Oh, by the way, I didn't mention that I saw IR carrying a dead body, because I was too scared"!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

LE said previously withheld information, which I took to mean something that someone was intentionally holding back, so I don't think it's dementia related...

I really hope it isn't just one of the family saying something like "Oh, by the way, I didn't mention that I saw IR carrying a dead body, because I was too scared"!

I actually hope it IS that. I think we're all prepared for the fact Deorr is not likely to be alive. I'd rather someone had a sudden memory which brought this case to justice, than never ever know the answers.

 

[Rayemonde]

I actually hope it IS that. I think we're all prepared for the fact Deorr is not likely to be alive. I'd rather someone had a sudden memory which brought this case to justice, than never ever know the answers.

Yes, but my thought was that if someone said that, it might not be true. Could just be someone making stuff up to try and cast the blame elsewhere. And it might not lead to further evidence of foul play or accidental death.

 

[MBK]

I don't think little DeOrr was ever at that campground. They drove separately, they slept separately, they left the next day for quite some time, and then little D was gone. I think Great Grandpa was useful because they have *told* him they left D with him and used his memory issues to construct a false memory.
I just wish he'd had his little blanky with him wherever he ended up. [emoji26]

Or his monkey.

The clerk at the shop where they went on the big french fries and feminine products trip was also "talked up". But did she SEE little Deorr? Was he even there?

 

[MBK]

I'm also not convinced Deorr made it to the campsite, mainly because there is no forensic evidence to show he was. Did we ever hear about dirty nappies or other kid related rubbish in the campsite bins? Presumably the search dogs smelled his blanket or whatever and still could find zero trace.

One diaper was allegedly there and thrown away by gma. I just wonder if they brought more diapers up there with them. That, and a lack of other necessities needed for the camping trip might well be one of those ancillary (auxiliary) issues.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

One diaper was allegedly there and thrown away by gma. I just wonder if they brought more diapers up there with them. That, and a lack of other necessities needed for the camping trip might well be one of those ancillary (auxiliary) issues.

gma ?

 

[katydid23]

This case has always puzzled me. Someone might cover up a murder by making it look accidental but who covers up an accidental death? Still there are deaths that occur in closed cars that parents claim were accidental and sometimes they are ruled accidental; other times the parents face charges.

DeOrr's family slept in the truck that night. The cab of the pickup might have seemed the perfect place to leave DeOrr sleeping. What if the cab heated up the next morning and DeOrr was sleeping there? Could it be they were afraid they would be prosecuted?

Yes. I have a similar theory. What if DeOrr fell asleep on the way back to the camp site after the trip to town? I would think he might have since it was so close to his nap time. Maybe he was fast asleep when the pulled in and they left him in the truck while they went on their adventure/walk. But when they returned he had been asleep in the hot truck and maybe it was too late to save him? Then what? If they reported it they might be afraid they'd lose custody of the other kids too.

 

[Arnie M]

.

Here we go again

If DeOrr was never at the campsite , and if the missing-child-story is a work of fiction concocted by the 4 people ........... that would require the Sheriff , LE , and the FBI be complete idiots who could not figure that out .

.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

.

Here we go again

If DeOrr was never at the campsite , and if the missing-child-story is a work of fiction concocted by the 4 people ........... that would require the Sheriff , LE , and the FBI be complete idiots who could not figure that out .

.

We could always go back to mountain lions?

 

[iluvmua]

Yes. I have a similar theory. What if DeOrr fell asleep on the way back to the camp site after the trip to town? I would think he might have since it was so close to his nap time. Maybe he was fast asleep when the pulled in and they left him in the truck while they went on their adventure/walk. But when they returned he had been asleep in the hot truck and maybe it was too late to save him? Then what? If they reported it they might be afraid they'd lose custody of the other kids too.

Jessica already lost custody of her other kids.

 

[iluvmua]

gma ?

Grandma

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Grandma

I'm confused, where does grandma fit in to all this if the nappy was found at the campsite?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

.

Here we go again

If DeOrr was never at the campsite , and if the missing-child-story is a work of fiction concocted by the 4 people ........... that would require the Sheriff , LE , and the FBI be complete idiots who could not figure that out .

.

It's not impossible. Great Grandpa has "mental issues" per the sheriff's department. As I said, he may believe 100% that he saw DeOrr there if JM and DK told him he was there.

IR supposedly didn't know them, they had supposedly never met before this trip. He wasn't planning on hanging out with them, he was planning on fishing. He wasn't paying that much attention to them.

They arrived at the campground in separate vehicles, at night. If JM and DK said little D was asleep in the truck, neither of the other two would question that. Then GGP went to sleep in his camper, IR went to sleep in his tent, and JM and DK slept in the back of GGPs Suburban I believe.

Next morning, IR goes fishing. GGP is doing whatever. JM and DK leave for town. The other two aren't concerned where little D is, knowing he's with his parents.

They come back from town. IR is fishing. GGP is told little D is there, but like I said this could be manipulated.

It's not an unreasonable scenario. The scent dogs didn't track him at the campground. They should have been able to. Most 2 year olds would have been running all over the place.

We only know for sure about one diaper, and there's no proof it was even little D's. The sheriff said he was 99% sure little D was at the campground, but that also means he is NOT 100% sure. Even the sheriff has doubt.

No trace of him was found at the campground other than items the parents provided.

This scenario is NOT concocted by 4 people. This scenario would be concocted by 2 people responsible for whatever happened to cover their @sses, and the other 2 are innocent bystanders who have no idea what actually happened. I think IR and GGP have been truthful with the sheriff. Notice the sheriff has also never said that IR said he'd seen little D there, and he said GGP's info was unreliable due to the mental issues.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

^^^^ Hang on....

All these vehicles to sleep in, we don't do this in the UK unless it's a caravan/campervan. Can someone please post pics of what you guys call a truck, a camper and a suburban? I think I need it spelling out to me exactly which vehicles were there.

I am completely with you by the way, I think it's entirely possible 2 people could be blissfully unaware of anything. But... surely, if IR said from the start he didn't see Deorr at all, wouldn't that ring alarm bells?

 

[ILOKAL]

Mr. Klein said he would not comment on if they found physical evidence but he did say they have forensic evidence.

IIRC, forensic means "for the court" so I'm not certain it has to be blood, DNA, fingerprints, and such. What are some other types of forensic evidence?

 

[scmom]

Could be video, audio recordings?

 

[ILOKAL]

Jessica already lost custody of her other kids.

Not according to what I read on this thread just yesterday. Apparently her ex came out in 100% support of her and said the custody was agreed upon because she said he was better able to be the custodial parent at the time (words to that affect).