ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[renarde]

You sure would think, if the parents truly believed what they were saying--that their child had probably been abducted from the campsite pretty immediately upon their return from the store on Leadore--they would take the opportunity in their interview with Nate to let the public know about their comings and goings in town so that the public could provide tips.

Instead, DK played dumb about what day was the beginning. Which makes you wonder, what the heck happened on Thurs night. Why hide that they arrived Thurs? Why didn't they want people to know they went to the Silver Dollar?


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Maybe someone fell off the wagon at the Silver Dollar...

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

They never mentioned calling the grandma to come help search... And they never said what they did in between calling 911 and LE actually getting there. I was shocked when I found out it was like 3 hours.

The 3 hours is from when they claim to have gone on their creek run (1:00-1:10pm) and LE turning up. 911 call to LE turning up is approximately 1.5 hours (2:28pm ~4:00pm). We still don't have a more precise time of when LE and/or SAR turned up.

 

[haven71]

I found the Q&A that I deemed important. Well, I didn't find it, but I found my post talking about it:

In Klein's Q and A yesterday, he confirmed they were there (at the Silver Dollar) because it was a non prosecutionary fact. So for this reason, I am assuming little Deorr was there.

However, if that's the case, why does the timeline begin at 8 am Friday morning? I surmise there must be a definitive sighting of Deorr that morning. Because it sure sounds like they're kind of dismissive about events that happened Thursday evening.

 

[misshissy]

I have been following this from the beginning and it is just so sad. This is my first post (I have only replied previously) so hope I do it correctly.

I just wanted to talk about the planning necessary for a camping trip. This is assuming they camp often and this was not a unique or first time experience for them. I have camped all my life and I can tell you it would not have been necessary for me to spend more then 10 minutes planning this trip. I do not have a camper (which would make it even easier) so I have a few boxes holding everything necessary to camp (dishes, fuel for cook stove and lantern, utensils, saw, water bag, and on & on). It's all ready to go all the time. I would decide to go, load the boxes, tent, cooler into the truck, stop on the way to buy food, gas, and ice and I'm on my way. I very well might go back into the nearest town and buy additional food or more ice later...not unusual in any way. We have had children and grandparents and friends with us on many occasions also. Still, what is there to plan? The grandfather had his oxygen and his camper. Done.

 

[neesaki]

I found the Q&A that I deemed important. Well, I didn't find it, but I found my post talking about it:

In Klein's Q and A yesterday, he confirmed they were there (at the Silver Dollar) because it was a non prosecutionary fact. So for this reason, I am assuming little Deorr was there.

However, if that's the case, why does the timeline begin at 8 am Friday morning? I surmise there must be a definitive sighting of Deorr that morning. Because it sure sounds like they're kind of dismissive about events that happened Thursday evening.

Here's the Q/A:

D.G.: Did any, or all, of the adults go to the Silver Dollar Restaurant and Bar in Leadore on Thursday, July 9th?

Klein: As this is in the timeline - and outside any prosecutional questions - the answer is yes.

 

[charminglane]

BTW, where did the question about blood on a diaper come from? Was there a fb rumour that someone.saw blood on a diaper, or something? I'd never heard that anywhere before.

I asked it because I was curious about any internal injuries.

 

[ClaireNC]

I have been following this from the beginning and it is just so sad. This is my first post (I have only replied previously) so hope I do it correctly.

I just wanted to talk about the planning necessary for a camping trip. This is assuming they camp often and this was not a unique or first time experience for them. I have camped all my life and I can tell you it would not have been necessary for me to spend more then 10 minutes planning this trip. I do not have a camper (which would make it even easier) so I have a few boxes holding everything necessary to camp (dishes, fuel for cook stove and lantern, utensils, saw, water bag, and on & on). It's all ready to go all the time. I would decide to go, load the boxes, tent, cooler into the truck, stop on the way to buy food, gas, and ice and I'm on my way. I very well might go back into the nearest town and buy additional food or more ice later...not unusual in any way. We have had children and grandparents and friends with us on many occasions also. Still, what is there to plan? The grandfather had his oxygen and his camper. Done.

Great post, misshissy. I've said the same thing in these threads. For us, camping is not something that we need to plan in advance. We've also gone camping with multi-generations from infants to great-grandparents.

 

[DatelineFan]

I found the Q&A that I deemed important. Well, I didn't find it, but I found my post talking about it:

In Klein's Q and A yesterday, he confirmed they were there (at the Silver Dollar) because it was a non prosecutionary fact. So for this reason, I am assuming little Deorr was there.

However, if that's the case, why does the timeline begin at 8 am Friday morning? I surmise there must be a definitive sighting of Deorr that morning. Because it sure sounds like they're kind of dismissive about events that happened Thursday evening.

I agree with you!

 

[Mountain Misst]

Here's the Q/A:

D.G.: Did any, or all, of the adults go to the Silver Dollar Restaurant and Bar in Leadore on Thursday, July 9th?

Klein: As this is in the timeline - and outside any prosecutional questions - the answer is yes.

Is the 'yes' for the original question, or both? IMO DeOrr could have been back at camp with RW and IR.
In relation to the 8am time offered by Klein - perhaps this relates to phone pings IMO - that no-one left camp before 8am.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I'm curious about whether DeOrr was irritable or cranky in the days leading up to the trip or if he seemed to have a cold or other symptoms of illness. I guess this would go back towards, "Who saw him last?" And we, the public, don't know that yet.

If DK had fallen, been hit or otherwise been seriously hurt, it could have happened before the trip, even several days before. But he'd have likely had some symptoms -- drippy nose, vomiting, disorientation, irritability -- that could have easily been dismissed or chalked up to something else.

*all pure conjecture and opinion*

 

[Rayemonde]

The 3 hours is from when they claim to have gone on their creek run (1:00-1:10pm) and LE turning up. 911 call to LE turning up is approximately 1.5 hours (2:28pm ~4:00pm). We still don't have a more precise time of when LE and/or SAR turned up.

Ohhh I see! Thanks for pointing that out. Still, it's a long time... If your kid had really disappeared you'd be frantic and going crazy in that time. I wonder what they were doing when LE or S & R finally got there... Running around searching? Sitting around drinking? What?

Eta maybe IR was off searching by himself for an hour, that's what SB said... But what were the others doing?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Ohhh I see! Thanks for pointing that out. Still, it's a long time... If your kid had really disappeared you'd be frantic and going crazy in that time. I wonder what they were doing when LE or S & R finally got there... Running around searching? Sitting around drinking? What?

NP Rayemonde and I agree with you that 1.5 hours is a long time and I'm also very interested in this "silent" 1.5 hours. May be one of them remained on the phone all that time because AFAWK, no other calls to 911 were made?

 

[giagreen]

I was going through Klein's Q&A a little bit ago and I noticed on one of the questions, bottom of the thread, TC posted "following". Why would she do that? I mean, of course we expect the family to be following along. Seems odd that she wanted to make her presence known (I believe this was last night that she posted this).

She posted it at 12:27 am yesterday, underneath the question which shows a picture of Little Deorr in swimming trunks and a fishing pole.

On Kleins page?

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[Midge Montana]

NP Rayemonde and I agree with you that 1.5 hours is a long time and I'm also very interested in this "silent" 1.5 hours. May be one of them remained on the phone all that time because AFAWK, no other calls to 911 were made?

I'm wondering if they stayed on the phone too. I'd likely have called again at some point because 1.5 hours would seem like an eternity in that situation, unless 911 explained right off that it'd take that long to arrive. I still can see myself calling to say, "Please hurry! Are they almost here?!"
Hmm. Do we know what time GGP called? Maybe he was calling to check on the ETA.
I try to be rational but I'm not sure I could be calm if my toddler was missing. I'd be going out of my mind.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I'm wondering if they stayed on the phone too. I'd likely have called again at some point because 1.5 hours would seem like an eternity in that situation, unless 911 explained right off that it'd take that long to arrive. I still can see myself calling to say, "Please hurry! Are they almost here?!"
Hmm. Do we know what time GGP called? Maybe he was calling to check on the ETA.
I try to be rational but I'm not sure I could be calm if my toddler was missing. I'd be going out of my mind.

The other two calls we know about were at 2:22pm and 2:26pm. One by GGP and one by VDK.

 

[haven71]

On Kleins page?

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I personally could not find it on Klein's page. But apparently Neesaki did.

NEESAKI found the exact Q&A:

Here's the Q/A:

D.G.: Did any, or all, of the adults go to the Silver Dollar Restaurant and Bar in Leadore on Thursday, July 9th?

Klein: As this is in the timeline - and outside any prosecutional questions - the answer is yes.​

 

[haven71]

I personally could not find it on Klein's page. But apparently Neesaki did.

NEESAKI found the exact Q&A:

Here's the Q/A:

D.G.: Did any, or all, of the adults go to the Silver Dollar Restaurant and Bar in Leadore on Thursday, July 9th?

Klein: As this is in the timeline - and outside any prosecutional questions - the answer is yes.​

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like it was in the timeline, but not important to the prosecution. Which says to me that Deorr was there. The part that confuses me is Klein says the timeline begins at 8 am Friday. It sounds like he's contradicting himself to me.

 

[byo]

Klein's timeline begins at 8am.
Perhaps someone from the upper campground remember hearing a truck starting at 8 am. I'm sure the sound of the engine firing would echo through that little valley?

There are a lot of roads and trails in the area. I think JM and VDK took a "scenic" tour on the way to the store in Leadore Friday morning. Maybe their trip to town began at 8 am?

This is the best map I've found that shows the Leadore Ranger District.

Grandpa Walton had previously camped at Stone Reservoir. I wonder if JM had ever been camping there?

 

[haven71]

Klein's timeline begins at 8am.
Perhaps someone from the upper campground remember hearing a truck starting at 8 am. I'm sure the sound of the engine firing would echo through that little valley?

There are a lot of roads and trails in the area. I think JM and VDK took a "scenic" tour on the way to the store in Leadore Friday morning. Maybe their trip to town began at 8 am?

This is the best map I've found that shows the Leadore Ranger District.

Grandpa Walton had previously camped at Stone Reservoir. I wonder if JM had ever been camping there?

Then why would he say that Thursday night is part of the timeline? But it has nothing to do with prosecution. That tells me that Deorr was with them Thursday night.

I don't know why he said at 8 am--, that sounds like the last time someone definitively saw Deorr, in the flesh.

 

[giagreen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like it was in the timeline, but not important to the prosecution. Which says to me that Deorr was there. The part that confuses me is Klein says the timeline begins at 8 am Friday. It sounds like he's contradicting himself to me.

I wonder if he is just starting the time line from when they left home to the 911 call but 8am was the last time they could confirm lil Deorr was with his parents.

What confuses me is Klein said that it was 17 min that the parents where away from DeOrr then changed this to all most 7 hours. Is that the time they were away or time anyone els seen him? That was confusing.

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