ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[atthelake]

Wait what? You're not allowed to take alcohol to a campsite?!

:blush: ... And if the Rangers catch you drinking at midnight at your campfire at a campsite that doesn't allow alcohol, they can and will make you pack up and leave immediately! :seeya:

Try packing up and putting a kayak on the top of your car that late at night, not fun!

At Timber Creek.. alcohol is allowed, at the campsite only https://www.trails.com/tcatalog_trail.aspx?trailid=HGR205-021

ETA someone below said this is the incorrect campground apparently there is more than one Timber Creek and I did not notice . Sorry

 

[Donjeta]

I was reading some of the old threads and saw a mention that Deorr's parents were working on a composite sketch of a weird man at the gas station.

Was it ever released?

 

[bluesneakers]

Wait what? You're not allowed to take alcohol to a campsite?!

It's forbidden at some state and national parks and forests.

People do it though.

 

[bluesneakers]

:blush: ... And if the Rangers catch you drinking at midnight at your campfire at a campsite that doesn't allow alcohol, they can and will make you pack up and leave immediately! :seeya:

Try packing up and putting a kayak on the top of your car that late at night, not fun!

At Timber Creek.. alcohol is allowed, at the campsite only https://www.trails.com/tcatalog_trail.aspx?trailid=HGR205-021

Not the same Timber Creek.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I was reading some of the old threads and saw a mention that Deorr's parents were working on a composite sketch of a weird man at the gas station.

Was it ever released?

That was all part of the Rubicon story that Klein dismissed and to be fair even Lemhi County effectively did the same by only doing a token gesture or CMA of "showing it to locals" in Leadore.

That's what I think, anyway.

 

[Rayemonde]

I was reading some of the old threads and saw a mention that Deorr's parents were working on a composite sketch of a weird man at the gas station.

Was it ever released?

Bowerman said they showed it to locals in Leadore but no one recognised it.

 

[bessie]

Stuff I wonder about, the thing that leaves a seed of doubt about a homicide route- look how close they are to that reservior. Do we know how long it would take a two year old to come to the surface? Was someone watching the reservior at all times? They searched bear and wolf dens, what about fish and water fowl? Did they dredge it? It's frequently windy up there. Can the wind cause a current? It only takes about 2 mins to drown, and there is a straight path to that reservior from the camp site. I seriously hate this reservior. If I could, I would drain the whole thing, and go over every inch with a fine tooth comb.
I remember taking my son to a reservoir when he was two. He went bolting for the water, didn't know how deep it was, and went in over his head, there was no splashing or yelling, he just sunk like a rock out of sight. When I came in after him, all you could see was his arms flapping under water. There was no sound. If I hadn't seen him run into the water... ugh. Hard to think about. Maybe my experience is influencing my judgement, but I wish I knew for sure. I can think of a few cases of people going missing, or showing up, in Idaho reserviors after years of searching. For me, the shadow of doubt is that reservior.

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Divers have been in the water numerous times scouring nearby Stone Reservoir for any clue as to the whereabouts of the child.
This new dive team has the capabilities of side sonar, according to Bonneville County. Divers typically use a sonar robot to assist them in muddy or foggy waters.

The waters of Stone Reservoir are clear. The lake is small with a muddy bottom, according to Lemhi County Chief Deputy Steve Penner.

Friday, Lemhi County dispatchers said search crews continued up at the Timber Creek Road campsite, looking in the nearby reservoir.
http://legacy.ktvb.com/story/news/l...arch-for-missing-east-idaho-toddler/30319703/

11:17
SB: Yes! We dove the reservoir at least four days. We put a side-scan sonar in on one day. We also uh flew a helicopter both in daylight and at night with the FLIR to illuminate for body heat, and we found absolutely nothing other than our canines alerted on it but we found that someone had come in behind us and had uh put some human cremains in of a loved one and that kind of threw our dogs off.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12122056#post12122056

“Nevertheless, we have sonar there today and divers still at the reservoir. We are going to side scan and sonar the whole lake. We have people up there on horseback too searching as we speak.”

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

 

[ILOKAL]

Divers have been in the water numerous times scouring nearby Stone Reservoir for any clue as to the whereabouts of the child.
This new dive team has the capabilities of side sonar, according to Bonneville County. Divers typically use a sonar robot to assist them in muddy or foggy waters.

The waters of Stone Reservoir are clear. The lake is small with a muddy bottom, according to Lemhi County Chief Deputy Steve Penner.

Friday, Lemhi County dispatchers said search crews continued up at the Timber Creek Road campsite, looking in the nearby reservoir.
http://legacy.ktvb.com/story/news/l...arch-for-missing-east-idaho-toddler/30319703/

11:17
SB: Yes! We dove the reservoir at least four days. We put a side-scan sonar in on one day. We also uh flew a helicopter both in daylight and at night with the FLIR to illuminate for body heat, and we found absolutely nothing other than our canines alerted on it but we found that someone had come in behind us and had uh put some human cremains in of a loved one and that kind of threw our dogs off.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12122056#post12122056

“Nevertheless, we have sonar there today and divers still at the reservoir. We are going to side scan and sonar the whole lake. We have people up there on horseback too searching as we speak.”

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

Little Omarion Humphrys was found the very day little DeOrr disappeared. After an extensive week-long search in a new, small, man-made lake, divers and sonar had failed to locate him.

http://www.macombdaily.com/article/MD/20150710/NEWS/150719973

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Little Omarion Humphrys was found the very day little DeOrr disappeared. After an extensive week-long search in a new, small, man-made lake, divers and sonar had failed to locate him.

http://www.macombdaily.com/article/MD/20150710/NEWS/150719973

I've said it before - I'm sure we'd all prefer that DeOrr died by accident rather than at the hands of someone he trusted and loved. We'd rather it was quick and he didn't have time to be alone, scared or hurt.

If it turns out he was in the lake or just curled up on the mountain somewhere I think we'd be justified in feeling pretty annoyed with the police and other agencies for fuelling speculation and pointing us in the direction of foul play. But that is what they have done, all of them; local police, FBI, two PI's. We know for a fact the parents have been less than truthful (unless we're accusing all those agencies of either lying or being collectively wrong) and that is what raises the red flag.

I don't honestly think we're going to get much further here without clarification of pertinent points. Or a confession from one of the four adults.

Poor DeOrr, his little soul deserves better than this.

 

[Karinna]

Little Omarion Humphrys was found the very day little DeOrr disappeared. After an extensive week-long search in a new, small, man-made lake, divers and sonar had failed to locate him.

http://www.macombdaily.com/article/MD/20150710/NEWS/150719973

That's very sad, and i think sometimes with all the equipment available it doesn't always locate someone who is missing.

 

[bessie]

Little Omarion Humphrys was found the very day little DeOrr disappeared. After an extensive week-long search in a new, small, man-made lake, divers and sonar had failed to locate him.

http://www.macombdaily.com/article/MD/20150710/NEWS/150719973

But eventually the divers did find him, albeit a week later. Anyway, It's impossible to make a fair comparison without knowing the conditions of the lake versus the reservoir, and the type of sonar used. I know of one case where sonar in a bayou missed a car that should have been in its range. So go figure. For the record, I haven't ruled out anything.

ETA: " They also installed grates in the pipes that feed into Lake Callis to prevent anyone from getting inside of them."

http://www.abc12.com/home/headlines...ison-Township-311650231.html?device=phone&c=y

 

[KayCherry]

I have been following along, and know of the EMT bag, I wondered who initially noticed and said it was missing, I guess I missed that part... thank you. I usually sleuth from a distance... you guys are true professionals here, I enjoy reading each and every post!

 

[wondering25]

WHY? If it was accidental... even if they were all boozing it up and he wandered off or fell asleep in a hot car overnight or whatever why hide the body? Afraid of neglect charges? WHY? Kids wander off..WHY hide the body unless he was drugged.. abused.. and died that way.

What mother could throw their baby in a makeshift grave.. a dumpster.. or otherwise dispose of him in such an undignified and unloving and detached manner. I really do wonder if the father knows and the mother doesn't but certainly suspects, thus the less than truthful responses from the 2 of them?

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I have been following along, and know of the EMT bag, I wondered who initially noticed and said it was missing, I guess I missed that part... thank you. I usually sleuth from a distance... you guys are true professionals here, I enjoy reading each and every post!

It hasn't been officially stated AFAIK. I guess the person who owned the truck/EMT bag is the one that reported it?

I am intrigued why the person in the parents EIN interview (I'm pretty confident about who that was) tried very hard for them to talk to Nate about it for them to completely change topic and ignore it.

Like a lot of things in this case it could be something or nothing because it is rare anything gets followed up and cleared up.

 

[Ekkwhine]

I don't know if this is anything new to you, I can't see anything new but I'm struggling to keep up with threads being home alone with 3 babies at the moment but this is hitting our news in the UK right now, published 4 hours ago

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...s/news-story/2bdcd8daafeb4d338d92f21a6ca53eb3

 

[Midge Montana]

I don't know if this is anything new to you, I can't see anything new but I'm struggling to keep up with threads being home alone with 3 babies at the moment but this is hitting our news in the UK right now, published 4 hours ago

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...s/news-story/2bdcd8daafeb4d338d92f21a6ca53eb3

Well, this is still the same...
"“They’re not able to tell the same story twice because they’ve told so many stories,” County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told KTVB-TV. “We’re getting changes in the stories all the time.”

 

[Rayemonde]

WHY? If it was accidental... even if they were all boozing it up and he wandered off or fell asleep in a hot car overnight or whatever why hide the body? Afraid of neglect charges? WHY? Kids wander off..WHY hide the body unless he was drugged.. abused.. and died that way.

What mother could throw their baby in a makeshift grave.. a dumpster.. or otherwise dispose of him in such an undignified and unloving and detached manner. I really do wonder if the father knows and the mother doesn't but certainly suspects, thus the less than truthful responses from the 2 of them?

I can't think of a plausible scenario where they would cover up an accident - unless maybe hard drugs were involved and they would face a long time in prison if LE found out about the drugs.

An accidental drowning, a hot car death, a car accident - I can imagine one person panicking and deciding to hide the body. But two of them, both thinking it was a good idea? Or four of them, if you think they all knew about it? No way. Didn't happen. Whatever happened, they were scared of serious charges and a long time in prison. Scared enough to refuse to call an ambulance, scared enough to go driving around with a dead body, to leave their child without a decent burial, to concoct a story, to face constant scrutiny from LE and from the public, to lie to all their friends and family about what happened and leave them without closure... No way was it a simple accident.
All just :moo:

 

[neesaki]

"You know I believe that one of the uh volunteers was up in the area and their vehicle was broke into.* It might have been left unlocked, but something…an EMT bag was…was taken from them"


"I’m not sure if we ever determined uh who took it or what the circumstances were surrounding that."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286501

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I'm not sure if SB's "I'm not sure if" really means he's not sure if. Does that make sense?

 

[The Apparition]

Yes but deceptive isn't necessarily because of a homicide. Perhaps they felt they were responsible for his disappearance because they weren't watching him. Do they know where he is? Probably dead or kidnapped after such a huge search, and overnight temps...and the reservior is like RIGHT there... they could be saying "no", and still have a guilty conscience that they lost him. I don't think this science is 100%, either. They're going to need something more concrete. The conjecture is getting pretty crazy out there. Anywhere from him being sold for drugs to burning him in a fire pit. How people can just pull this out of their head is beyond me.

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I can't argue the science of the poly and how effective they are really at telling truth from lies. I know mostly they are a LE tool not often admissible in court. That being said I can tell you the FBI and LE know how to word the questions so they don't cause a conflict in the interviewees mind. Saying they were torn internally because the questions were too broad in not plausible IMHO. You get to read and talk about all the questions before a poly starts. The only questions you don't get input on are the control because there is no point messing with those questions. The kind of question they would have been asked "did you cause Deorr to disappear?". "Was Deorr physically injured or in danger when you last saw him?". "Do you know where Deorr's body is right not?" "Did you dispose of Deorr's body?" They are not messing around with vague questions they will go simple and right to the point. And from what we've heard each parent took 4 poly's which means there was plenty of time for them to tell the poly examiner they didn't like a certain question.

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm not sure if SB's "I'm not sure if" really means he's not sure if. Does that make sense?

Yeah, good point...

How could the EMT bag be relevant, though? I'm thinking it was probably just a coincidence. They had a lot of volunteer searchers up there, maybe one of them just wanted an EMT bag.