ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[CatsInTheCradle]

There are so many sad cold cases where people desperately want answers about their missing loved ones and here we have parents who do not appear to be cooperating with LE to help find their child. I cannot wrap my head around that. Jmo

 

[desert-blue]

I didn't say it was only about the polygraphs. I did mention LE stated their stories are changing. I'm not saying the parents are NOT involved, I'm saying I don't know yet. Time may tell. I pray LE can find this child this spring, I hope Klein does know more than we do, I pray there is a resolution to this case.

Okay, fair enough. I hope he is found this spring as well. I don't think anyone wants the parents to be involved and I respect those that want to see or hear of some actual evidence before forming an opinion. It's just that it may be awhile before that happens. Waiting is hard. :-(

 

[ReadySet]

What "circumstantial" evidence? Yes, it may be a factor in many missing child cases but that doesn't mean it is here. I would think my behavior would be odd if my child was missing. We haven't been told they "repeatedly lied", we've been told their stories don't line up, that details in the stories are changing. We've been told they failed two significant questions on their polygraphs.

If these parents are responsible for the death of DeOrr, they need to be held accountable. Accountable for what they did, not for what strangers on an internet forum have condemned them.

As I said earlier, I'm not convinced either way. This is not the first time a 2 year old boy has vanished without a trace in Idaho. IIRC there are 3-4 others in different parts of the state where a 2 year old boy just vanished, never to be seen or heard from again.

Idahoan here, I try to keep track of these missing little ones in Idaho. I'm aware of Curtis Fair, missing from Nampa 1980. Could you please cite the others for me? TIA!

 

[MBK]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/felix_ruben.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/barnett_richard.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/fair_curtis.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/cannon_jason.html

There may be one more but these are the ones I can remember. Not exactly like DeOrr except they are 2 years old and vanished with no resolution.

Seems to me that with the difference in DECADES, it's not one guy driving around looking for toddlers to snatch. (What in god's name are parents thinking when they let a 2 year old play outside alone, and in the neighbor's yard?) Seem to be mostly broken or strained family relationships. Probably makes a child more vulnerable to predators. On the other hand, it might be that the "story" of the person who was last with the child is just a whole bunch of B.S.

 

[desert-blue]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/felix_ruben.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/barnett_richard.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/fair_curtis.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/cannon_jason.html

There may be one more but these are the ones I can remember. Not exactly like DeOrr except they are 2 years old and vanished with no resolution.

Interesting cases. I hope DeOrr's case doesn't end up like these ones. :-( One thing I noticed about all four of these cases is that they all vanished from someone's residence (well, one was near a barn on the property), but none were out in the wilderness. I do think that is one element that makes abduction so unlikely in DeOrr's case. There just weren't any people around to take him. MOO.

 

[MBK]

He SAID he was never there before. I don't believe much of what he says.

Indeed. But what he says can be rather telling. "I knew that I was in trouble". Oh, yea? It's all about him.

 

[kammiemc]

I am not religious in any way but this has got to be the best post (IMO) across all 21 threads and all of those to come.

<modsnip> Thank you for *trying* to remind them although I think it is all for naught for some. Vengeance (that is not theirs to impose) appears to be the driving force for some. When I read these posts, my immediate thought is, "WHAT IS LIL MAN THINKING AND HOW SAD IS HE IF HIS PARENTS ARE INNOCENT?" (which is what I believe until there is proof beyond ANY doubt that they are not and we do not have ANY proof or even ANY indication that they are guilty of anything).

How very sad my soul is that these precious parents, their beautiful son and his life/memory are defiled in this manner!!!

MOO

<modsnip>

I respect that some people might think local law enforcement, FBI and Klein are all collectively barking up the wrong tree. But because they have said what they have said and believe what they believe, it's no longer "our" opinion.

So it seems weird to attach moral or religious meaning (or admonishment even) to the idea that we logically understand and believe what the experts have determined thus far.

Amen?


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[Butler]

Interesting cases. I hope DeOrr's case doesn't end up like these ones. :-( One thing I noticed about all four of these cases is that they all vanished from someone's residence (well, one was near a barn on the property), but none were out in the wilderness. I do think that is one element that makes abduction so unlikely in DeOrr's case. There just weren't any people around to take him. MOO.

I never said the cases were connected, just similar in that all were 2 years old and all vanished. I do not believe DeOrr was abducted or given away or traded. My opinion is that he is dead and is still somewhere near Leadore/Timber Creek Campground.

 

[desert-blue]

I never said the cases were connected, just similar in that all were 2 years old and all vanished. I do not believe DeOrr was abducted or given away or traded. My opinion is that he is dead and is still somewhere near Leadore/Timber Creek Campground.

I wasn't thinking that you thought they were connected either... I was just making an observation. These cases, in my opinion, are way too dated to be related anyhow. It's just interesting to me that the family has thought abduction since about day 2, despite there not being any evidence to point in that direction (combined with the fact that they were in the middle of nowhere).

 

[katydid23]

I don't think you can read anything incriminating into that phrase. He had never been to that campground before and wasn't familiar with the area. He knew he needed SAR help, that he, VDK, didn't have the ability to find little DeOrr.

But I do think it is odd that he says "I knew I was in trouble"

If my toddler went missing in the wilderness, I would not immediately think " I was in trouble." I'd think about my baby and would be worried sick about him, and would think he was the one in trouble, not me.

 

[KatieLiz]

Personally, I would probably still be giving the parents the benefit of the doubt if it weren't for their behaviour after DeOrr's disappearance... Sometimes searchers don't find kids, sometimes the FBI are wrong, often LE's instincts are wrong, often polygraphs are wrong, often PIs are wrong... It's possible the parents have just been really unlucky and all the experts around them have all come to the same wrong conclusion.

But add in to all that the behaviour of the parents since DeOrr disappeared, and it stretches my good faith too far so I can no longer give them the benefit of the doubt. Their obsession with SM, their refusal to get the word out about their son, the constant collection of donations without a word of where it's going (I'm talking about the online store and gfms, not the fundraising for Klein), the fact that complete strangers organised billboards because the parents never bothered, the constant lies... IMO they have never behaved as if their son is missing and they are searching for him. That's either because he wandered off and got lost and they're such negligent parents that they don't really care and have just moved on with their lives, or it's because they know where he is. JMO.

Thank you! This is exactly how I feel.

When I came into this I supported the parents (especially JM) and cried for them. Even through all the speculation I tried to believe them and tried to piece together their information so that it would make sense to me. But after 21 threads, my opinion has definitely changed. I can take out of my mind all the speculation, SM rumours, and even statements from LE, the PI and reporters. Based solely on VDK and JM's behaviour and statements I do not believe a word they say. Even if they didn't murder little Deorr, it is my opinion they have done everything in their power to stop him from being found.

 

[KatieLiz]

For now, let's all send our love and forgiveness out to the parents rather than our hate. Pray for them.

With all due respect, in order to be forgiven, one must repent their sins and ask for forgiveness. Vernal and Jessica have not sought our forgiveness. Therefore, they don't deserve it.

Until they lay their sins out, repent, and seek forgiveness, it can't be granted.

 

[Paulas88]

But I do think it is odd that he says "I knew I was in trouble"

If my toddler went missing in the wilderness, I would not immediately think " I was in trouble." I'd think about my baby and would be worried sick about him, and would think he was the one in trouble, not me.

It was little DeOrr who was in trouble.

 

[Lillahazel]

The fundraising money is a question for me as well. I'm wondering if they have looked into any connection with the people starting the fundraisers? I am not trying to point fingers at anyone I'm really just curious if there are any connections with the parents and the people starting them (other than SM saying they never meet before). For the sake of sleeping at night I have convinced myself that Deorr was a tool used to make some quick cash. I am hoping there is a sliver of hope that he was given to someone to earn some money. To me this would explain the strange behavior of the parents to some degree. The wilderness also seems like a location that would be used to do an exchange. Are Klein and law enforcement still asking the public to report sightings of little Deorr? Or are they past that at this point?

On on a completely different topic. In the very beginning there was a rumor that Jessica was related to someone on the police force in Lemhi. Was that ever addressed as being true or false?

 

[bessie]

Please omit references to specific religious tenets. Forgiveness is also a virtue independent of theology, just like compassion and respect.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I wasn't thinking that you thought they were connected either... I was just making an observation. These cases, in my opinion, are way too dated to be related anyhow. It's just interesting to me that the family has thought abduction since about day 2, despite there not being any evidence to point in that direction (combined with the fact that they were in the middle of nowhere).

bbm
Even outdated news may provide ideas , in which way one might come to money ..... for persons, who aren't morally of impeccable character.

 

[Rayemonde]

When I read these posts, my immediate thought is, "WHAT IS LIL MAN THINKING AND HOW SAD IS HE IF HIS PARENTS ARE INNOCENT?" (which is what I believe until there is proof beyond ANY doubt that they are not and we do not have ANY proof or even ANY indication that they are guilty of anything).

How very sad my soul is that these precious parents, their beautiful son and his life/memory are defiled in this manner!!!

So you're saying that doubting the parents makes baby DeOrr sad? I'm sorry, but that feels like emotional blackmail to try and stop people from searching for the truth. It is not defiling his life or memory to try and find out what happened to him, even if that means scrutinizing his parents.

 

[giagreen]

So you're saying that doubting the parents makes baby DeOrr sad? I'm sorry, but that feels like emotional blackmail to try and stop people from searching for the truth. It is not defiling his life or memory to try and find out what happened to him, even if that means scrutinizing his parents.

I don't think anyone is emotionally blackmailing anyone.

And you are awear that there are ways to seek the truth that does not includ projection and possibly life altering statement about people who have NOT been proven guilty.....right?

There are also ways to seek the truth without hate page's on facebook, slander, rummors, gossip, and non stop hateful words about two people who could possibly be innocent.

There is a "difference" between scrutinizing and verbally condemning somebody from day one.

The drug rummors, the pictures with dislocated and broken arms, meth mouth, JM driving record...all that is trash and some people don't want to take part in that and it is sad and it is disrespectful to little DeOrr imo but that is by no means emotionally blackmailing anybody.



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[TeaTime]

If I lost my kid in the wilderness and knew that help was hours away I would think I was in trouble. "Trouble" meaning I am only one person, I can't do this alone and it is impossible to search all of this land by myself I need help.

I see nothing hinkey about him saying this.

 

[Butler]

If I lost my kid in the wilderness and knew that help was hours away I would think I was in trouble. "Trouble" meaning I am only one person, I can't do this alone and it is impossible to search all of this land by myself I need help.

I see nothing hinkey about him saying this.

Exactly. I wouldn't think I was in trouble for doing something wrong, just that the situation was beyond my capability to resolve.