ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[Lillahazel]

I think "up there" probably refers to the mountain. As for the four minutes, they've given so many different stories for how long the baby was alone, I don't think we will ever know the truth of it. I wonder if their families are still taken in by the prevarication, or if they've resigned themselves to the fact that DeOrr is not coming home alive and so are prepared to fight tooth and nail to save their own adult kids.

For some reason while reading this my mind changed it to "themself".

 

[pepelepolecat]

To those that think there is something behind the EMT bag:

Where do you think DeOrr's body was before it was placed in the bag?
Don't you think it would have been highly risky and beyond stupid for DK and JM to (1) break into a vehicle belonging to a member of SAR and steal the bag, (2) retrieve the body and stuff it in the bag, and (3) escape with the bag and dispose of it all with LE and SAR on the scene?

I don't think the bag has anything to do with baby DeOrr.

It was also highly risky and beyond stupid for them to try to disappear a child on a camping trip with two potential witnesses.

I just don't think these two are overly bright. I do, however, think they've gotten lucky so far. I sincerely hope their run of luck is almost out, though.

 

[courtneyb]

It sounds to me like GGP knew that DeOrr was injured, then died. In trying to lend support to VDK's accounts (with VDK placing emphasis on really odd, seemingly unimportant points), GGP actually contradicts VDK. I think VDK was trying to get the idea out there that DeOrr was FAST. Like, look away and he'd be GONE. But, GGP, knowing that DeOrr was injured, (maybe on the way to the campground, just before, or just after arriving) tries to offer up an excuse for how he could have gotten hurt with the "falling all the time" and the "too big boots" comments. Because surely GGP thought, with all the searchers there, that they would likely find DeOrr quickly and see whatever injuries he had, so he was trying to explain that away in advance. But, in doing so, he contradicts what VDK was trying to emphasize about him being fast.

Also, injuries that GGP thought could be explained away as the result of a fall, sound like head injuries, body injuries of the blunt force trauma type. Not asphyxiation, stab wounds, gunshot wounds.

This is off track a little, but I just wondered if perhaps one of them ran him over. VDK talked about the truck a lot. But, I still don't see why they wouldn't call 911 if that were the case. The only reason I can think of that would keep a parent from calling 911 when their child falls victim to a true accident is if they knew they'd get in trouble for some OTHER reason. Something that would be obvious just by the police showing up there. It would have to be something so evident that they would avoid calling the police at all costs. The only things that come to mind are:

1. Drugs.. would have to be an apparent lab or grow operation OR they would have to be undeniably obviously impaired and couldn't hide it.

2. Signs of other trauma on DeOrr that would become evident and not be explained by the accidental injuries he sustained.

What else??

 

[ClaireNC]

Yeah, let me see... The original article's not working any more, but luckily someone copied and pasted the quote into an earlier thread (please always copy the full 10% we are allowed into threads, because the news articles quickly disappear and important information can be lost).
The quote was From Vernal's father, DeOrr's grandfather:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015-1/page52

Sure, the bruises and marks on DeOrr in the pictures may be accidental, or they may not. It does seem suspicious that he has bruises that look like a hand mark, for instance. Maybe he fell into a railing or something, or maybe someone hit him. There's no way of knowing.

FWIW - The article is still working. http://legacy.ktvb.com/story/news/l...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

 

[Lillahazel]

This is an interesting theory, as brain trauma due to closed head injuries can be very insidious. An example that immediately comes to mind is Liam Neeson's wife who hit her head in a ski accident, but said she was fine so didn't seek medical help right away. If something like that happened Deorr could have seemed fine and gone to sleep as usual, but as the brain swelled this would have caused him to worsen, have nausea and vomiting with possible aspiration, become unresponsive, slip into a coma and / or possibly die during the night or the next day.

I hate thinking along these lines, but I guess anything's possible. I hope even more that someone has him.

This happen to Katie May just a few weeks ago. It was a trending topic on FB. She fell off a runway and hit her head. She went to the doctor, complained of migraines on SM and had a massive stroke a week after the accident that put her in a coma. Someone was asking a while back that the 4th of July was just before DJ went missing. I too am now curious what they were doing on the 4th.

 

[Butler]

To those that think there is something behind the EMT bag:

Where do you think DeOrr's body was before it was placed in the bag?
Don't you think it would have been highly risky and beyond stupid for DK and JM to (1) break into a vehicle belonging to a member of SAR and steal the bag, (2) retrieve the body and stuff it in the bag, and (3) escape with the bag and dispose of it all with LE and SAR on the scene?

I don't think the bag has anything to do with baby DeOrr.

I would have to agree. While these two may not be the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, it seems the EMT bag theory is for too risky. I would think by the time the bag went missing there would have been too many eyes on VDK & JM for them to get away with it.

 

[pepelepolecat]

When people first started kicking that idea around I thought it was pretty far-fetched, but then read about a similar case where the father was carting around a "sleeping" child for a couple of days and no one suspected anything. At trial, a doctor said the child probably had a subdural hematoma, and had lapsed into a coma over a few days. Then he mysteriously disappeared/ was abducted when the father left him alone for a few minutes (father was convicted of the child's murder).

http://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/superior-court/1994/433-pa-super-280-2.html

So yeah, it's possible... But for that to have happened, they would have had to have known DeOrr was seriously ill/ badly injured, and then what - instead of taking him to hospital, intentionally planned the camping trip so they would have somewhere convenient to dump/ "lose" him when he eventually died? I can't imagine even J and V being that evil Or maybe they didn't know he was actually dying, but thought a few days on the mountain would give him time to heal away from prying eyes? I don't see this happening either... Easier to hide him at home rather than camping.

They may not have even known he was that badly injured and just jauntily carried on with their plans as though nothing was wrong. Then when he took a turn for the worse, they panicked.

 

[Jackeee]

Could someone please tell me where to find the interview where JM, VDK and another woman were sitting on a sofa together? I can't find it on YouTube and I just want to take another look at JM. Thx

 

[Deleted member 718]

Could someone please tell me where to find the interview where JM, VDK and another woman were sitting on a sofa together? I can't find it on YouTube and I just want to take another look at JM. Thx

Here's a link with many of their videos. The one you request should begin playing when you open link. Jessica is sitting with Vernal and her mom and dad. Let's hope her parents quit enabling her (as I think they've done many many times before) and tell her it's time to suck it up Buttercup.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...iew&id=8&vid=76e362098b53db89feaa37cfeeef8e90


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=suck it up buttercup

 

[courtneyb]

I don't think they could have snatched the bag to use it right then.

But maybe they grabbed it to move him later just in case they weren't able to locate him. And if they did find him then found VDK and JM with the EMT bag, then so what? They were caught anyway.

I think they are dumb enough to steal the bag but if they did take it with those intentions of moving him at a later date, that involves a depth of thought and planning that does not scream accident to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rayemonde]

Does anyone remember the video where the parents are wearing orange t-shirt with pictures of DeOrr on, and they don't speak? I can't find it now, which one was it?

 

[Mickshawn]

It was also highly risky and beyond stupid for them to try to disappear a child on a camping trip with two potential witnesses.

I just don't think these two are overly bright. I do, however, think they've gotten lucky so far. I sincerely hope their run of luck is almost out, though.

I have a "feeling" they disappeared their child BEFORE the camping trip

 

[desert-blue]

Does anyone remember the video where the parents are wearing orange t-shirt with pictures of DeOrr on, and they don't speak? I can't find it now, which one was it?

Is it this one?

http://q13fox.com/2015/08/11/private-investigator-helping-family-of-missing-idaho-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr/

 

[Rayemonde]

Is it this one?

http://q13fox.com/2015/08/11/private-investigator-helping-family-of-missing-idaho-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr/

Yes! Thank you. This is another video where I see an angry/ sulking JM, not a grief-stricken mother or battered woman. I think Vilt pressured them into at least showing their faces for the cameras, but he couldn't convince them to speak. And JM is NOT happy about even doing that much!
I think the same about the "re-enactment" video, where JM is sulking and glaring at the cameras, and the whole family are avoiding the press and don't speak to them.
JMO.

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

I might be in the minority here, because I know there's been a lot of scrutiny around him, but I actually feel that there's a fair amount of quality information Isaac Reinwand supplied in his interview. He did hire counsel pretty quickly, and he is selective about the questions he is willing to answer. But I think the selectiveness and silence speak volumes. Klein stated, "I know for a fact that law enforcement has not asked him to be quiet. They have not put any restrictions on him. Nobody has put any restrictions on him."
Assuming Klein is correct, every time Reinwand elects not to answer a question, that is a careful, intentional, personal choice.

Interviewer: Were you surprised that the parents were named as suspects?
Isaac: Pause-Yeah. Actually. I kinda was. A little bit.
Interviewer: Why is that?
Isaac: It's just, you know, it's just 'cause of all the theories and everything that's been going around, just doesn't feel like, or seem like, anyone knows what's going on.
...
Interviewer: What do you remember, what happened up there?
Isaac: Uh- I would.... I don't wanna comment on that.
Interviewer: Do you remember the last time you saw little DeOrr?
Isaac: Extended Pause I don't, no comment.
Interviewer: Okay. But he was up there?
Isaac: Yes, that, he was.
Interviewer: He was up there, you saw him, you know he was there.
Isaac: Yes.
...
Interviewer:Do you know anything as far as Robert Walton, the grandfather?
Isaac: All I can say about Walt, uh, Robert Walton is he's always been a good friend to me. We've gone fishing, on fishing trips many occasions, camping. So.
Interviewer: And you guys met before all of this took place, right?
Isaac: That's correct.
Interviewer:Are you still friends today?
Isaac:I haven't heard from Walton all winter long.
....
Interviewer:Do you think that this- How has this experience kind of changed your life? Has it?
Isaac: A little. I'm a little bit more, you know, I try to be a little bit more 'skeptimistic' [skeptical] about what's going on around me and the public. Just, people can change in the blink of an eye, and you don't even realize until it's too late.
....
Interviewer:Are Jessica and Deorr your friends? Did you know them before all this?
Isaac: No, I did not.
Interviewer: And so you only really spent a couple hours with them once you got up there.
Isaac: More like a couple days.
Interviewer: A couple days. Alright.
Interview Assistant(?): Where were you when you first heard that someone was missing? Like, were you... What were you doing? And like, what was going through you mind, when you heard that?
Interviewer:Is it fishing?
Isaac: Was I fishing?
Interviewer: Yeah, were you downstream when you heard?
Isaac:Um.... Yeah, I'm not supposed to disclose any information, still. I've been asked not to.
Interviewer: I guess that will all come out in court.
Isaac: Exactly.


I think that when Reinwand speaks about what happened that day, he wants it to be the honest truth. When he's asked a question that could be detrimental to himself of his friends, he chooses not to answer. So I think the key details are in those silences.

-Reinwand had not met Jessica or Vernal before this camping trip.
-DeOrr was at the campsite
-Something happened at the campsite that he doesn't want to talk about
-He doesn't want to talk about the last time he saw DeOrr
-Reinwand will not confirm that he was fishing when he found out that DeOrr was missing.
-Reinwand thinks highly of Robert Walton, and appreciates his friendship, but he hasn't heard from him all Winter. *This could be due to Walton's health issues.
-Reinwand is a little bit surprised that the parents were named as suspects. Not because they didn't do it, but because it doesn't seem like anyone knows what's going on.
-This experience has taught Reinwald to be more skeptical, and to be aware that things can change in the blink of an eye, and by the time you realize it, it's too late.

 

[DatelineFan]

I don't believe that Klein knows for a fact, that LE didn't ask IR not to talk about the case. It's basically protocol that LE tells witnesses how important it is to protect the integrity of the investigation. I would definitely side-eye IR if he was telling the press his story!

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

I don't believe that Klein knows for a fact, that LE didn't ask IR not to talk about the case. It's basically protocol that LE tells witnesses how important it is to protect the integrity of the investigation. I would definitely side-eye IR if he was telling the press his story!

You could be right! And if he's leaving out these details because they are pertinent to the investigation, that's awesome. That would mean to me that what happened at that campsite, the details surrounding Reinwand's last time seeing DeOrr, and what was really happening when DeOrr was announced missing are both known by law enforcement, and important to the investigation.
Reinwand knows what happened up there. I can only hope that he's supplied LE with that information.

 

[neesaki]

Yes! Thank you. This is another video where I see an angry/ sulking JM, not a grief-stricken mother or battered woman. I think Vilt pressured them into at least showing their faces for the cameras, but he couldn't convince them to speak. And JM is NOT happy about even doing that much!
I think the same about the "re-enactment" video, where JM is sulking and glaring at the cameras, and the whole family are avoiding the press and don't speak to them.
JMO.

In the one where they're sitting on the sofa with JM's parents, some I know think she was either crying or pretending to cry. Remember, she doesn't utter one single solitary word throughout the video. But more than that, I swear she was literally huffing, barely able to contain her fury at having to be there, IMO.

 

[Donjeta]

I might be in the minority here, because I know there's been a lot of scrutiny around him, but I actually feel that there's a fair amount of quality information Isaac Reinwand supplied in his interview. He did hire counsel pretty quickly, and he is selective about the questions he is willing to answer. But I think the selectiveness and silence speak volumes. Klein stated, "I know for a fact that law enforcement has not asked him to be quiet. They have not put any restrictions on him. Nobody has put any restrictions on him."
Assuming Klein is correct, every time Reinwand elects not to answer a question, that is a careful, intentional, personal choice.

Instructed by his lawyer, perhaps?

 

[Donjeta]

In the one where they're sitting on the sofa with JM's parents, some I know think she was either crying or pretending to cry. Remember, she doesn't utter one single solitary word throughout the video. But more than that, I swear she was literally huffing, barely able to contain her fury at having to be there, IMO.

She doesn't really look at anyone talking either, doesn't nod or signal agreement or approval of what anyone says.