ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

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  • #841
There are two interviews in which she looks furious to me. One is the one with Vilt, where they cut to JM and VDK, standing there in the orange shirts. He looks like he is trying to look solemn, but she looks furious at having to be there. She even looks at VDK once with apparent anger/disgust. The second one is the one on the sofa where she doesn't utter a word, looking down the entire time. I, like someone else who said so here recently, did not think she was looking down because she was distraught and crying. She looks like she is barely containing her anger. The way they are holding onto her so tightly doesn't say "support" to me, it says "keeping her under control".

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have always had in my mind that VDK was responsible and JM's facial expressions were stemmed from her anger towards VDK's part in what happen to DJ. It's interesting for me to start watching again with the perspective of JM being the suspect.
 
  • #842
Is there a link where anyone said that LE told IR to be quiet?

The man himself is quite clear that he was told to be quiet by his attorney.

EATON: We’re hearing from you for the first time. Is there a reason you wanted to be quiet?

REINWAND:It was mostly just because of how the social media was reacting and my attorney said it might be better not to say anything until they know exactly what’s going on with the case.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/isaac-reinwand-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-deorrs-disappearance/

It seems to me that the whole discussion is a result of Klein misunderstanding what Reinwand said.
 
  • #843
Anybody caught up in a crime by no fault of their own, is wise to seek legal representation. Absolutely nothing suspicious about IR doing so. His narrative has been consistent and LE believes he is honest but if JM and VDK are arrested and the situation advances to court, IR will need to protect himself. He is likely to be cast in suspicion or implicated or accused by the parents who seem unwavering in their lies.

Exactly. JM and DK seem pretty intent on never coming clean. If they are arrested and charged, I'm sure the charade will go on and no doubt part of their defense will be to blame someone else. MOO.
 
  • #844
Regarding interviews, in this video:
[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

which I believe is the first interview, JM seems very upset. VDK seems annoyed and over-explanatory. I get the impression that JM is authentically distraught (grief? anger? guilt?) but even right here in the beginning, VDK seems defensive and angry. I'm no expert in body language, but this just doesn't sit right with me.
 
  • #845
Exactly. JM and DK seem pretty intent on never coming clean. If they are arrested and charged, I'm sure the charade will go on and no doubt part of their defense will be to blame someone else. MOO.

The scary part about this, to me, is that so many people are enabling their behavior. IME, people who are coddled will never take responsibility for their actions and the blame will always be someone else's to bear.
 
  • #846
I think that the majority of the IR interview was focused on the trip, the people there, what he saw, etc. Consider this -
LE has stated that the parents are lying and their stories have been inconsistent. They have also said that GGP's accounts have been at least somewhat inconsistent, referencing "confusion" on his part. They have said that IR's statements have been "the most consistent". That would mean obviously that IR is telling a different story than JM, VDK and GGP. And they apparently have evidence indicating that JM and VDK are lying. So, that would indicate that LE believes IR is telling a version that is true, or at least "most true" out of all of them. Combine that with JM and VDK being named suspects and not IR, and that further supports that IR is telling the most accurate version of events. I think it is safe to conclude that JM, VDK and GGP are telling a different version of events than the one IR is telling.
IR's account is the most independent of them all, as all the rest are family and in regular contact with each other (presumably), and can contaminate each other’s accounts. GGP may have some memory issues, according to the sheriff, so if he's not really sure what happened and when, he might be somewhat suggestible and his version could easily be influenced by whatever JM, VDK and the rest of the family were telling him at the time. The sheriff said GGP gets frustrated when he doesn’t remember and says yeah maybe it was like that.

IR says in the interview that he and GGP were friends. He says that he hasn't talked to GGP "all winter" and obviously implies that that is a change from the norm. When a person says that someone that is/was a friend has "changed", that is usually a negative thing in the eyes of the person saying it, because it implies that the person is now different from the way they were when they became friends, when there was something that attracted the two to each other and made them want to be friends. He also states this in a way that sounded to me like it was either GGP's decision or that because IR decided to tell what is undoubtedly the most accurate version of events, which is an obvious conflict and problem that would not allow them to be friends any longer.
IR said he hadn't heard from GGP all winter but he didn't really take any stance on whether GGP had heard from IR, whether he tried to call but GGP never replied or if neither one bothered to make contact. He said they used to go camping and fishing, did they normally do that during the winter?
Why would GGP and IR not be able to be friends any longer, as a direct result of what happened on that trip, keeping in mind that it is most likely evolving into a murder investigation, with JM and VDK being named suspects? And, depending on whether or not LE believe that GGP's discrepancies are the result of "confusion" or not, if (when, I think..) charges are brought against the parents, it is very likely that GGP may also be charged with some sort of accessory/obstruction charge. I think the most likely reason they have not spoken all winter is that IR is telling a different story, one that implicates at least JM and VDK, and GGP isn't happy about it.

I hope you're right and IR is going to be the star witness for the prosecution.
But even if GGP isn't consciously lying and isn't anticipating an obstruction charge, I don't think it's unusual that friendships change due to stressful life events . People who need extra oxygen tend to be in pretty bad shape and may not feel up to socializing much in the best of circumstances and GGP is elderly, lost a great-grandson, has had to deal with the police multiple times, and now his granddaughter is a suspect. The stress might have taken a big toll on his mental or physical well being , and dealing with friends or this particular friend who is a reminder of what went on on the trip might just be too much.
I think if he were talking about the way the public has treated him in a negative way, I don't think that "people change" would be the choice of words he'd use.
On the other hand, if he wasn't talking about the public, would he have used the words "the public"? He has no problem calling his friend Robert Walton when he’s talking about him in other contexts.
In light of his correct use of the term, "skeptimistic", I believe he'd have been a bit more clear, if talking about the public, maybe saying that people's opinions of him changed without knowing the full story, which led to him being treated as someone who is guilty of something. And he never refers to any of the negative things that people said about him in the beginning, like, "Oh, IR is the mysterious friend.. he must be involved." Or that his privacy was invaded by people trying to dig up dirt on him. He doesn't say any of that, IIRC.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/isaac-reinwand-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-deorrs-disappearance/
He mentions social media reactions in a roundabout way several times in this interview and Nate Easton brought it up explicitly, asking him several questions about people being suspicious about him.
He speaks about how his friendship with GGP "changed" and later stated that people "change" in the blink of any eye. And I cannot make the "until it's too late" fit in with him talking about how poorly the public has treated him either in person or on SM. What's it too late for? To reach 1000 Twitter followers? Too late he realized people have a negative view of him? Too late for what?

Maybe just an expression of general helplessness? It must have been quite a surreal, helpless situation. At one moment you're an unknown entity camping in the middle of nowhere and the next moment people are speculating about wild theories about you on the internet, and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it.

IMO, he really wants to tell his story, and is giving as much information as he can while still following his attorney and LE's instructions. And his story is obviously one that casts, if not direct blame, but at least a negative light on JM and VDK, and one that GGP doesn't support him telling.

I don't think it's fair to draw the conclusion that GGP doesn't support telling the truth when we have never seen him or heard him give any statement and the sheriff has never said he thought GGP was lying, only the parents. He might be up to his neck in it , but it's not obvious to me, based on the information we have. No doubt he is not happy that JM and VDK were named suspects but I need to at least see the man and read a couple of quotes from what he said before I can state that he is intentionally covering for a murderer, or worse.
 
  • #847
I have always had in my mind that VDK was responsible and JM's facial expressions were stemmed from her anger towards VDK's part in what happen to DJ. It's interesting for me to start watching again with the perspective of JM being the suspect.

It almost looks like she is thinking, "If I could just get him to shut the hell up..."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #848
Regarding interviews, in this video:
[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

which I believe is the first interview, JM seems very upset. VDK seems annoyed and over-explanatory. I get the impression that JM is authentically distraught (grief? anger? guilt?) but even right here in the beginning, VDK seems defensive and angry. I'm no expert in body language, but this just doesn't sit right with me.

I literally can't watch this video again. To paraphrase a wise man from another site, we look for the expected and the unexpected stands out because of that. The fact that VDK wasted so much time babbling on about absolutely nothing is such a giveaway. Taking time out after all nonsense to than address a rumor about a guy and a dirty crying kid also screams out. I know I'm preaching to the choir but I bet as soon as LE saw this performance they knew they had trouble on their hands. The expected behavior for victim parents would be to jam this interview full of facts about their son. What he likes, funny words he says, favorite foods, sleeping patterns, basically anything that would help the public identify and find him. In reality what we get is praise of LE (look at us we love you guys), alibi building (it's not us), and most importantly muddying of the waters (maybe aliens got him because he's not on the mountain).

IMHO the emt bag is a none issue. Not trying to stop others discussion of it but I don't see how the parents would pull off a theft to go along with whatever they did with Deorr. From what I read that little area was flooded with cars and people looking for Deorr, it seems simple enough someone saw a cool bag in an unlocked car and took it before driving home. I assume the parents were never alone after a couple of LE officers got up there so would have no time to do anything.
 
  • #849
The ONLY thing I can think of is that if a witness is also classified a victim, media is not allowed to publish their name.

I'm not saying he's a victim here, but that's what I know based on experience. I can't think of any other reason... This has bothered me, too.

It bothers me too. It seems to strange to me that as the person who supposedly last saw DeOrr, he has provided no testimony of what happened. Why is that?

It makes me very curious about Mr. Walton. He has been protected from all sides from the very beginning... LE, the families, even the media - he has escaped having to utter a single word to anyone. The media didn't go up to his door and ask for an interview - they (the media) haven't so much as even released a photo of him. It's quite perplexing to me. At the start, it was stated that he was in very poor mental and physical condition and therefore was considered only as a witness (although not one that was asked or required, apparently, to provide any account to the public about DeOrr's last moments before he disappeared). At some point he was included as a POI, but only because he was at the campsite.

It's clear to me that great-grandpa isn't as feeble as we first thought. He drove his Surburban, hauling a camp trailer behind it, from Idaho Falls to the campground, which we know requires driving some distance on very rough terrain (to get to the actual campsite; the rest of the trip is just on the highway). He clearly has a valid drivers license and was even cited for speeding the end of July.

We were told he was on oxygen during the camping trip, but in IR's interview on January 26th, when asked about grandpa, IR states that he's heard that he (great grandpa) is on oxygen. But if was already on oxygen back in July during the camping trip, that comment doesn't really make sense. Maybe that's all IR could think of to say about grandpa that he thought was "safe" because of the on-going investigation. Who knows.

At any rate, I think his physical health was perhaps not as poor as maybe we were led to believe early on. I don't think he would have even been on a multi-day camping trip in the first place if his physical health was that poor. (Perhaps his health has since been declining - I would think the stress of this incidence would not be good for one's health).

As far as his mental health, based on Bowerman's comments, I do think he has memory issues and is easily confused. I wonder if his mental health is the reason that he has been so fiercely protected? Maybe he just refuses to say much or has little to offer that might be helpful to the investigation because of his failing memory. I can't help but wonder what role he played, if any. It's interesting that he (or someone using his phone I guess) made a 911 call. It would be interesting to hear the contents of that call....

I guess my post really has no point, other than I really wonder about Mr. Walton and whether he was involved in any of it or was just an innocent bystander.... He's like a mysterious phantom...
 
  • #850
Anybody caught up in a crime by no fault of their own, is wise to seek legal representation. Absolutely nothing suspicious about IR doing so. His narrative has been consistent and LE believes he is honest but if JM and VDK are arrested and the situation advances to court, IR will need to protect himself. He is likely to be cast in suspicion or implicated or accused by the parents who seem unwavering in their lies.
 
  • #851
Yes, stupid and risky, but perhaps it was done out of desperation with little regard to "reason." .... The "rumors" all likely have some element of truth to them and in the case of the EMT bag, I think the truth is that JM and DK had something to do with the stolen EMT bag. Obviously, MOO. Maybe it was just another bizarre coincidence, but for some reason, it just doesn't sit well with me...

Snipped by me

Yeah. I can't get the rumors to add up to anything in particular but the totality seems to not fit, and in a bad way. I can explain away and even laugh at individual pieces, and dismiss others as parental lies, but after a bit I start thinking, "Wait. I'm sure having to explain away a lot of coincidences."
 
  • #852
I wonder what happened between this first interview and the sulky interview. Right in the start when she was the most stressed and upset and least prepared, (in theory), she didn't talk much but she looked around her and reacted in appropriate points of conversation. Months later when there had been lots of time to collect themselves and to figure out how one should behave in interviews there's just a lump of negative emotion from her.
 
  • #853
I literally can't watch this video again. To paraphrase a wise man from another site, we look for the expected and the unexpected stands out because of that. The fact that VDK wasted so much time babbling on about absolutely nothing is such a giveaway. Taking time out after all nonsense to than address a rumor about a guy and a dirty crying kid also screams out. I know I'm preaching to the choir but I bet as soon as LE saw this performance they knew they had trouble on their hands. The expected behavior for victim parents would be to jam this interview full of facts about their son. What he likes, funny words he says, favorite foods, sleeping patterns, basically anything that would help the public identify and find him. In reality what we get is praise of LE (look at us we love you guys), alibi building (it's not us), and most importantly muddying of the waters (maybe aliens got him because he's not on the mountain).

IMHO the emt bag is a none issue. Not trying to stop others discussion of it but I don't see how the parents would pull off a theft to go along with whatever they did with Deorr. From what I read that little area was flooded with cars and people looking for Deorr, it seems simple enough someone saw a cool bag in an unlocked car and took it before driving home. I assume the parents were never alone after a couple of LE officers got up there so would have no time to do anything.

I bet you'd be fun to hunt skeletal remains with

The emt bag discussion was imo avoided in the interview for a reason. They did not seem so concerned about the bag itself but rather the direction of the discussion and someone pointing a finger ...if you follow.
I'm gonna post my scenario / theory later tonight for ya'll to punch holes in.
 
  • #854
We were told he was on oxygen during the camping trip, but in IR's interview on January 26th, when asked about grandpa, IR states that he's heard that he (great grandpa) is on oxygen. But if was already on oxygen back in July during the camping trip, that comment doesn't really make sense. Maybe that's all IR could think of to say about grandpa that he thought was "safe" because of the on-going investigation. Who knows..


The EIN transcript is a bit misleading here.

EATON: Have you heard how his health is doing?

REINWAND: I heard he’s on oxygen.

That makes it sound like it's something new but the transcript is not accurate.

What they really said in the video:
EATON: Have you heard how his health is doing? We heard it's not doing very well.

REINWAND: That's what I heard. He’s on oxygen, so.


It still sounds like he's heard GGP is doing worse but the oxygen is more like an afterthought than the news.

(And Nate, what a leading question...)
 
  • #855
I guess my post really has no point, other than I really wonder about Mr. Walton and whether he was involved in any of it or was just an innocent bystander.... He's like a mysterious phantom...

Bowerman said he can't even remember what happened that day, so I suspect he has pretty bad problems and that's why he hasn't been paraded in front of the media.
 
  • #856
I wonder what happened between this first interview and the sulky interview. Right in the start when she was the most stressed and upset and least prepared, (in theory), she didn't talk much but she looked around her and reacted in appropriate points of conversation. Months later when there had been lots of time to collect themselves and to figure out how one should behave in interviews there's just a lump of negative emotion from her.

IMO she went on SM and read all the comments about the first interview, and she was furious that people weren't believing their story, and were analysing their body language and reversing their speech looking for evidence that they were murderers!
After that, she didn't want anything to do with public appeals and certainly didn't want to talk on camera. It was just inviting too much scrutiny of her and VK.

When she finally did speak again, IIRC it was after they'd sent cease and resists letters to facebook pages that were accusing them of being murderers, so maybe she felt a bit safer. And she said the social media criticism has been the worst thing about the whole situation.
 
  • #857
The EIN transcript is a bit misleading here.



That makes it sound like it's something new but the transcript is not accurate.

What they really said in the video:



It still sounds like he's heard GGP is doing worse but the oxygen is more like an afterthought than the news.

(And Nate, what a leading question...)

It seems that IR is vulnerable to leading questions much like a child would be. Journalists know that and take advantage of wording questions in a way that prompts certain individuals such as mentally challenged or children etc will shape their answers accordingly. Whe the topic at hand here may seem relatively benign, it's actually leading things in the direction the journalist wants the article to go. Poor journalisn and an obvious bias driving the interview.
 
  • #858
Did JM and DVK think that there would just be a massive search for DeOrr and then it would all go away? If so, they are very wrong. There are people from all over the world on Websleuths alone who have spent the last few months waiting, hoping and offering their ideas and opinions. This isn't going away.
 
  • #859
I still haven't been able to find the videos of the later interviews with the parents in the media thread. Does anyone have those links handy?
 
  • #860
The EMT bag was stolen. There were tons of S&R folks there and who but they would even know what an EMT bag is and what it contains. I posted these same thoughts before but seriously, not many people would even know what an EMT bag is much less what it contains. Most of us have never been attended to by EMTs or ridden in an ambulance and even if we have been, who the heck noticed their bags?

The parents didn't take the bag.

It was taken by a common thief out of the 300 who showed up to search.
 
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