ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[neesaki]

Yes! Thank you. This is another video where I see an angry/ sulking JM, not a grief-stricken mother or battered woman. I think Vilt pressured them into at least showing their faces for the cameras, but he couldn't convince them to speak. And JM is NOT happy about even doing that much!
I think the same about the "re-enactment" video, where JM is sulking and glaring at the cameras, and the whole family are avoiding the press and don't speak to them.
JMO.

I only watched that video the one time and hadn't paid much attention to the parents then. But I agree, JM never once raises her eyes to the camera, just looks down at the floor as though she's very PO'd and does not want to be doing this. VDK seems to be legitimately distraught and pleading. It's at 7 to 12 seconds , then again at the very end of the video.

Here it is again for quick reference:
http://q13fox.com/2015/08/11/privat...amily-of-missing-idaho-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr/

 

[giagreen]

Ding ding ding! :dance:
I am right there with you!
I don't feel that he is involved in this at all, with the exception of keeping his mouth shut.
He wouldn't do that for VDK, and he wouldn't do that for JM. He doesn't even know them.
But when the interviewer asked him about Robert Walton, he became very serious and said what a great relationship they used to have, and how he hasn't heard from him all Winter.
That, along with the quote you referenced, slammed the nail into the coffin for me. I would bet a hefty sum that RW was a major player in whatever terrible thing happened at that campsite.

I'm starting to think the ggp did something and everyone els is covering for him because he's old and wasn't in his true character. It's the only way I can comprehend why IR would withhold any info that could help.
And I'm definitely on board with IR knowing something.

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[Donjeta]

It sounds to me like GGP knew that DeOrr was injured, then died. In trying to lend support to VDK's accounts (with VDK placing emphasis on really odd, seemingly unimportant points), GGP actually contradicts VDK. I think VDK was trying to get the idea out there that DeOrr was FAST. Like, look away and he'd be GONE. But, GGP, knowing that DeOrr was injured, (maybe on the way to the campground, just before, or just after arriving) tries to offer up an excuse for how he could have gotten hurt with the "falling all the time" and the "too big boots" comments. Because surely GGP thought, with all the searchers there, that they would likely find DeOrr quickly and see whatever injuries he had, so he was trying to explain that away in advance. But, in doing so, he contradicts what VDK was trying to emphasize about him being fast.

Also, injuries that GGP thought could be explained away as the result of a fall, sound like head injuries, body injuries of the blunt force trauma type. Not asphyxiation, stab wounds, gunshot wounds.

This is off track a little, but I just wondered if perhaps one of them ran him over. VDK talked about the truck a lot. But, I still don't see why they wouldn't call 911 if that were the case. The only reason I can think of that would keep a parent from calling 911 when their child falls victim to a true accident is if they knew they'd get in trouble for some OTHER reason. Something that would be obvious just by the police showing up there. It would have to be something so evident that they would avoid calling the police at all costs. The only things that come to mind are:

1. Drugs.. would have to be an apparent lab or grow operation OR they would have to be undeniably obviously impaired and couldn't hide it.

2. Signs of other trauma on DeOrr that would become evident and not be explained by the accidental injuries he sustained.

What else??

But Rayemonde stated upthread that this statement that he couldn't really walk that far was a quote by Vernal's father who wasn't there, not by GGP.

 

[LookingForClues]

I think that people are confusing GGP (aka RW), who is JM's grandpa and was camping with JM et al, with GP, who is VDK's father and was NOT camping.

ETA: GGP has never been interviewed by the media. GP is the one who has been interviewed and he was not there, so he is only relaying what others have told him.

 

[courtneyb]

I think that the majority of the IR interview was focused on the trip, the people there, what he saw, etc. Consider this -

LE has stated that the parents are lying and their stories have been inconsistent. They have also said that GGP's accounts have been at least somewhat inconsistent, referencing "confusion" on his part. They have said that IR's statements have been "the most consistent". That would mean obviously that IR is telling a different story than JM, VDK and GGP. And they apparently have evidence indicating that JM and VDK are lying. So, that would indicate that LE believes IR is telling a version that is true, or at least "most true" out of all of them. Combine that with JM and VDK being named suspects and not IR, and that further supports that IR is telling the most accurate version of events. I think it is safe to conclude that JM, VDK and GGP are telling a different version of events than the one IR is telling.

IR says in the interview that he and GGP were friends. He says that he hasn't talked to GGP "all winter" and obviously implies that that is a change from the norm. When a person says that someone that is/was a friend has "changed", that is usually a negative thing in the eyes of the person saying it, because it implies that the person is now different from the way they were when they became friends, when there was something that attracted the two to each other and made them want to be friends. He also states this in a way that sounded to me like it was either GGP's decision or that because IR decided to tell what is undoubtedly the most accurate version of events, which is an obvious conflict and problem that would not allow them to be friends any longer.

Why would GGP and IR not be able to be friends any longer, as a direct result of what happened on that trip, keeping in mind that it is most likely evolving into a murder investigation, with JM and VDK being named suspects? And, depending on whether or not LE believe that GGP's discrepancies are the result of "confusion" or not, if (when, I think..) charges are brought against the parents, it is very likely that GGP may also be charged with some sort of accessory/obstruction charge. I think the most likely reason they have not spoken all winter is that IR is telling a different story, one that implicates at least JM and VDK, and GGP isn't happy about it.

I think if he were talking about the way the public has treated him in a negative way, I don't think that "people change" would be the choice of words he'd use. In light of his correct use of the term, "skeptimistic", I believe he'd have been a bit more clear, if talking about the public, maybe saying that people's opinions of him changed without knowing the full story, which led to him being treated as someone who is guilty of something. And he never refers to any of the negative things that people said about him in the beginning, like, "Oh, IR is the mysterious friend.. he must be involved." Or that his privacy was invaded by people trying to dig up dirt on him. He doesn't say any of that, IIRC. He speaks about how his friendship with GGP "changed" and later stated that people "change" in the blink of any eye. And I cannot make the "until it's too late" fit in with him talking about how poorly the public has treated him either in person or on SM. What's it too late for? To reach 1000 Twitter followers? Too late he realized people have a negative view of him? Too late for what?

IMO, he really wants to tell his story, and is giving as much information as he can while still following his attorney and LE's instructions. And his story is obviously one that casts, if not direct blame, but at least a negative light on JM and VDK, and one that GGP doesn't support him telling.

 

[DatelineFan]

I'm starting to think the ggp did something and everyone els is covering for him because he's old and wasn't in his true character. It's the only way I can comprehend why IR would withhold any info that could help.
And I'm definitely on board with IR knowing something.

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What makes you think IR isn't helping? SB, himself has said he's been cooperative.

 

[giagreen]

What makes you think IR isn't helping? SB, himself has said he's been cooperative.

SB also said he got a lawyer and they haven't talked to him a whole lot and because of that it's been a challenge. I don't know how els to take that other then he obviously got a lawyer and isn't saying anything. He also wouldn't talk to Klein. At the very same time SB has also said the parents are being cooperative so what does being cooperative really mean anyways.

In the latest interview SB also said he couldn't rule out other people knowing what happen or where DeOrr is. Why or how could that be if IR is in the clear.

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[courtneyb]

SB also said he got a lawyer and they haven't talked to him a whole lot and because of that it's been a challenge. I don't know how els to take that other then he obviously got a lawyer and isn't saying anything. He also wouldn't talk to Klein. At the very same time SB has also said the parents are being cooperative so what does being cooperative really mean anyways.

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Maybe cooperating by talking, but is it really cooperating if they are just telling them lies every time?


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[giagreen]

Maybe cooperating by talking, but is it really cooperating if they are just telling them lies every time?


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Ha not really....that's kind of my point. I could be cooperative with LE today and still lie to their face. Doesn't mean much. I've seen a lot of guilty people do just that to try and not look guilty or like they dont have info that LE wants.

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[Rayemonde]

SB said about GGP:

He struggles with remembering certain things, and I think he gets frustrated quicker. You ask him something and sometimes he’ll say, “Yeah, maybe that’s what happened,” because he doesn’t truly remember. I can’t say his stories have been inconsistent. He just hasn’t been as knowledgable and forthcoming as the parents. The parents have been very forthcoming. I just don’t think it’s been truthful information.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

He did also say in an early interview he thought IR had been very truthful, FWIW.

August 18th, 2015:

“Obviously there’s a relationship between him and grandpa. You know, um…You know, I mean…they’re…they’re friends…uh…but prior to that trip he had never met mom or dad. You know I’m not getting any uh…any feeling that he’s not being truthful. I…I think he’s been very truthful and I appreciate his help. He’s come up to the area on a 2nd occasion with me, and uh…until we find a piece of evidence or locate anything that tells me otherwise, I think he’s being very truthful.”

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Media-Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot

 

[giagreen]

SB said about GGP:



http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

He did also say in an early interview he thought IR had been very truthful, FWIW.

August 18th, 2015:


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Media-Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot

He's also said the parents where very truthful in the beginning. He said he can't rule out other people knowing...it's all pretty clear to me.

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[DatelineFan]

SB also said he got a lawyer and they haven't talked to him a whole lot and because of that it's been a challenge. I don't know how els to take that other then he obviously got a lawyer and isn't saying anything. He also wouldn't talk to Klein. At the very same time SB has also said the parents are being cooperative so what does being cooperative really mean anyways.

In the latest interview SB also said he couldn't rule out other people knowing what happen or where DeOrr is. Why or how could that be if IR is in the clear.

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I hear you. I don't know what to think about IR. I have gotten the impression that SB believes him. I think it's wise that IR got a lawyer, particularly if he knows what happened.

It doesn't concern me that he won't talk to the PI. A PI isn't law enforcement.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

He's also said the parents where very truthful in the beginning. He said he can't rule out other people knowing...it's all pretty clear to me.

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In SB's first interview he said "very truthful" multiple times in respect of IR and said "I feel real good" about parents and GGP. Subtle difference maybe, but why not the same language?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

He's also said the parents where very truthful in the beginning. He said he can't rule out other people knowing...it's all pretty clear to me.

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The other people could very well be family members/friends that weren't on the trip; people that were told what really happened.

 

[Rayemonde]

In SB's first interview he said "very truthful" multiple times in respect of IR and said "I feel real good" about parents and GGP. Subtle difference maybe, but why not the same language?

We discussed the sheriff's words at the time of the interview and some people thought his choice of words was significant. I thought it probably wasn't, at the time - but now I think it was probably intentional. Even back then, I think he didn't want to call the parents "truthful".

He's also said the parents where very truthful in the beginning. He said he can't rule out other people knowing...it's all pretty clear to me.

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He never said the parents were truthful... not that I remember, anyway. Link?

 

[haven71]

IMO it is irrelevant. Bizarre, but unrelated. First off, they likely wouldn't need the CONTENTS of it, because likely they'd have their ducks in a row (hiding Deorr, whether he was possibly barely alive or already deceased) when this went missing. I have a hard time believing that the bag would serve any purpose and that includes the contents of it. Some have suggested perhaps the bag was used to hide Deorr's body, but I doubt they called 911 and hours later when S&R got there they had a reason for the contents or the bag itself. And if they were going to hide his body, I doubt it would be in something that just went missing, something that people might have an "eye out for". Seems it would be a lot more discreet to hide his body in their own luggage or duffel bags.

Either way, I think his body had been hidden well before 911 were called.

Or maybe it was brought and left in plain sight on purpose. Did we ever find out from whom it was stolen and how the "thief" managed to get it away/out of the area without being seen?

:cow:

 

[kammiemc]

We discussed the sheriff's words at the time of the interview and some people thought his choice of words was significant. I thought it probably wasn't, at the time - but now I think it was probably intentional. Even back then, I think he didn't want to call the parents "truthful".



He never said the parents were truthful... not that I remember, anyway. Link?

He said was that the parents were cooperative and giving him what he asked for, which I took to mean stuff like poly's and approval to search. He actually used the words "very truthful" to describe IR. At the time it did strike me that he did not choose to say the parents were truthful, just IR!


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[giagreen]

I hear you. I don't know what to think about IR. I have gotten the impression that SB believes him. I think it's wise that IR got a lawyer, particularly if he knows what happened.

It doesn't concern me that he won't talk to the PI. A PI isn't law enforcement.

It didn't really concern me either at all that he wouldn't talk to Klein till SB made his comment about not talking to him much so it's been a challenge. For me that's when red flags went up.



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[DatelineFan]

It didn't really concern me either at all that he wouldn't talk to Klein till SB made his comment about not talking to him much so it's been a challenge. For me that's when red flags went up.



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But he said that after IR retained counsel, correct? I would assume that IR is paying for legal counsel, so he's probably listening to what the lawyer is telling him to do.

 

[Tr.]

IMO it is irrelevant. Bizarre, but unrelated. First off, they likely wouldn't need the CONTENTS of it, because likely they'd have their ducks in a row (hiding Deorr, whether he was possibly barely alive or already deceased) when this went missing. I have a hard time believing that the bag would serve any purpose and that includes the contents of it. Some have suggested perhaps the bag was used to hide Deorr's body, but I doubt they called 911 and hours later when S&R got there they had a reason for the contents or the bag itself. And if they were going to hide his body, I doubt it would be in something that just went missing, something that people might have an "eye out for". Seems it would be a lot more discreet to hide his body in their own luggage or duffel bags.

Either way, I think his body had been hidden well before 911 were called.

Personally if I were innocent and someone implied that i might know something about a missing bag i would want that cleared up.