ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[neesaki]

Right? When I read that, I could only think that Klein was just messing with him for fun. I cannot believe that's really how he works. I HOPE that's not how he really works. Yeah, it'd be really unprofessional to mess with a client, but it's just cartoonishly goofy to do that sort of thing seriously.

Now I'm wondering if Klein was being halfway cynical and didn't think Mr. Kunz would actually fall for it.

 

[Lillahazel]

RSBM

- how would the parents know of the areas you refer to without previous knowledge - but I think smartphones nowadays can provide maps and references immediately, so maybe previous knowledge isn't necessary.

I would put little value on the idea that VDK and JM had never been to the area before. Given they were the ones that stated that. As we all know, they tend to lie.


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[kammiemc]

I don't know that ggp actually knows what happened. He might realise that *something* must have happened because he can tell that that V and J are lying and covering something up, but he might not have actually witnessed anything. So he might have told KIC that he thinks maybe there was an accident, but genuinely not know any more.

He might have been aware that the parents were freaking out or fighting or been told something happened to DeOrr but that it'd be okay.

Perhaps he was okay to live the rest of his life thinking that it's possible a wolf got him.

Or maybe he knows exactly what happened and helped hide him. I imagine it's somewhere in between. And he might he confused.


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[bessie]

Very good to know. Thank you!

You're welcome. There's a lot of good information at the link. You should check it out.

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[K.L.Puyallup]

Has a hot car death been ruled out? There were multiple hot car deaths of Idaho toddlers in the summer of 2015. I feel like if DeOrr was hit by the truck to the point where he was bleeding and got blood on both the bumper and the wheel well, there would have been some physical evidence found at the campsite, no?

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

So I'm sure this was hashed to death a bazillion threads ago, but in Jessica's role as a CNA would she have an EMT bag? Good thing to bring camping right? Like a first aid kit on steroids.
I can't remember if you guys ever uncovered the mystery of the EMT bag after all.

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The EMT bag is a moot point. It was stolen out of the back of an ambulance during the first big search attempt. I can't find the link right now, but a couple of weeks ago I posted it here - I located online the minutes from a public meeting shortly after the search where Search & Rescue explains the EMT bag was stolen and they were requesting the funds for it to be replaced - the request was granted. To me, it's completely unrelated to this case.

 

[iluvmua]

So I guess Deorr was not with JM & DK when they went to stage stop to get J's feminine products?

I'm SO confused

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

You're welcome. There's a lot of good information at the link. You should check it out.

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Thank you and I did. I sometimes go overboard and I appreciate the gentle reminders. I do, I do!

 

[mommylicious]

I don't know that ggp actually knows what happened. He might realise that *something* must have happened because he can tell that that V and J are lying and covering something up, but he might not have actually witnessed anything. So he might have told KIC that he thinks maybe there was an accident, but genuinely not know any more.

Because they're his family, he loves them and if anything did happen then surely it was only an accident. Makes sense to me that he could make a statement like that without really knowing what happened.

 

[katydid23]

I can't really blame LE for initially treating it as a lost child in the wilderness. There were four adults at the campground. So a conspiracy seemed unlikely. Who'd ever think it was possible?

And it is so common in Idaho for a child to get lost in the beautiful outdoors. It is routine for local sheriffs to set up Search and Rescue services. It is not usual for them to be uncovering family conspiracies covering up the death of a toddler.

If it is a lost child, the authorities need to immediately begin the extensive searching and the priority is to send everyone out as fast as they can. So it is hard to justify holding manpower back and doing a parallel investigation into the family in the first couple of days. JMO

 

[ninij9]

The EMT bag is a moot point. It was stolen out of the back of an ambulance during the first big search attempt. I can't find the link right now, but a couple of weeks ago I posted it here - I located online the minutes from a public meeting shortly after the search where Search & Rescue explains the EMT bag was stolen and they were requesting the funds for it to be replaced - the request was granted. To me, it's completely unrelated to this case.

Riiight. ::smack::. I completely brain farted. Thank you CCID!!

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[ConcernedCitizenID]

So I guess Deorr was not with JM & DK when they went to stage stop to get J's feminine products?

I'm SO confused

That's what Klein is alluding to. That JM /VDK made up elaborate stories that other patrons in the store were actually playing with DeOrr and a man pumping gas saw DeOrr. Klein said when they found these witnesses they absolutely, positively said that they remembered seeing the parents, but absolutely no child. Weird, huh?

I don't think he was ever ALIVE on the mountain.

 

[jessie]

Maybe they thought he wasn't as injured as he was--especially if it involved a head injury--and they thought he would make it? Unfortunately if evidence was on the side fender, back bumper and wheel, it sounds like he might have been rolled over. Not sure how anyone in the world (let alone the parent of the victim)could see that happen and not call for help, but these people are different, not in a good way, IMO.


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There have been (certainly in the UK and probably elsewhere) terrible accidents when a parent has run over their child by accident. As far as I know the response has been automatic - call 999, try to resuscitate, take the blame.
Using these incidents as a guideline I do think that this wasn't an accident with a vehicle.
Something very bad happened here - but I know what you mean kammiemc that these people are different, not in a good way. imo.

 

[pepelepolecat]

There are several cases of people not remembering what happened during traumatic events, but it would need to be thoroughly evaluated by an objective physiologist/psychiatrist. Often they have created and tell a version of events that could not have happened based on the known facts. Whether these people are genuinely experiencing a dissociative state or are just making things up is really subjective interpretation.

If someone gets a good whack to the head (airbag during a car accident is good example) they may lose memory surrounding the event, but there is no evidence that JM was physically injured at any point.
If someone were taking a sedative hypnotic type drug (ativan/valium- for acute anxiety) or ambien-type drugs (for sleep disorders) it is possible that they did not form memories that could be stored during the time the drugs were active in their system. We do not know if JM was prescribed these medications.
There are no indications that anyone was blackout level drunk that morning, since they were all up walking and talking when LE arrived.
There are other recreational drugs that could explain a memory lapse or remembering things differently than they actually played out, however we don't know if that is a factor in this case.

Given that many (or at least some) here believe that whatever happened probably happened at night, this would be interesting to know -- did either of them take sleeping meds?

Why would you cover something like that up, though? There's plenty of documentation that people can do bizarre and awful things under the influence of certain sleep meds.

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

Ah. Feminine products.
The excuse I make to my in-laws when I want to get away for a cigarette.
The mention of "feminine products" creates a bubble of awkwardness that most people don't want to pop into.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

So I guess Deorr was not with JM & DK when they went to stage stop to get J's feminine products?

I'm SO confused

Hopefully some day we will know the truth.

 

[Rayemonde]

There have been (certainly in the UK and probably elsewhere) terrible accidents when a parent has run over their child by accident. As far as I know the response has been automatic - call 999, try to resuscitate, take the blame.
Using these incidents as a guideline I do think that this wasn't an accident with a vehicle.
Something very bad happened here - but I know what you mean kammiemc that these people are different, not in a good way. imo.

I agree... I can't think of a single case where someone has accidentally run over a child and then gone to these lengths to cover it up. It just doesn't make sense, imo. Even a stupid, drunk or drug-addled person doesn't act like that. And 4 people all going along with it for 7 whole months? No way, imo.

 

[Butler]

One of my biggest concerns regarding this case, aside from the fact there is a child who vanished last July, is everything in the last couple of threads is "Klein said". All these "facts" coming to light prefaced with "Klein said".

I know SB named the parents as suspects last month, stated they were less than truthful on certain questions on their polygraphs, and they had a difficult time telling the same story. But it's been stated on some of these posts that the FBI said the parents were lying. Can anyone post a link to a statement from the FBI that doesn't originate from Klein? Can anyone post a link to statements made by witnesses that doesn't originate from Klein? Klein states JM said she knows where DeOrr is but her attorney gave a plausible counter to that statement. Can anyone link JM state that doesn't originate from Klein?

Just putting this out there. I think Klein is more than happy to have all these people going down these rabbit trails, kind of makes him look smart for having all the answers.

 

[Butler]

I agree... I can't think of a single case where someone has accidentally run over a child and then gone to these lengths to cover it up. It just doesn't make sense, imo. Even a stupid, drunk or drug-addled person doesn't act like that. And 4 people all going along with it for 7 whole months? No way, imo.

This I agree with. Does not make sense at all.

 

[Lillahazel]

Going a little of topic here. I'm wondering if they had CB radios in their vehicles? Whenever we go deep into the ID forest it's our only way of talking to our family members in another vehicle. We always have code names and words for location (my dad doesn't like to tip off other hunters of his secret spots incase someone else is on the same channel. I'm wondering if one of the key witnesses could have been someone in the area that heard an unusual conversation on a channel? Crazy thought I know but let's face it everything is at this point.


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