ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[Sillybilly]

This thread exists to discuss Deorr's case, not to slag the private investigator who is involved in the search for Deorr and the truth of what happened to Deorr.

STOP the bickering. If you have a problem with a post or a poster, scroll & roll, or use the Ignore button, or use the Alert feature to let Mods/Admin know there is a problem. Do NOT tell others how/what to post and try to moderate the thread on your own. If you want to be a Mod, let me know and we can get you a nice full-time job doing just that

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

Yes-- Snake River and Clover Creek Motel (or something close on that name) are two of the spots we want to see searched again. In his Q&A Klein alluded to them having been checked once.

Snake River stands out to me because Vernal kept stumbling over the words or even Salmon Search and Rescue in their first interview with the blanket and cup. Would love to see where that area is and have searchers do a thorough check of all of them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

It's a genuine question, KatieLiz. What, exactly, has Klein done which LE & the FBI failed to do?

Here are a few examples:
He brought in one of the most highly qualified HRD dogs in the country and conducted several searches including around the campground, the area surrounding the campground, and in areas around Leadore. Here's a link to another search done by Tracy Sargent and HRD dog Chance, and there's more information on this trainer and her dogs available if you want to google it.

http://www.news-reporter.com/news/2...several_gravesites_at_Kettle_Cre.html?print=1

He and his investigative team searched the parents, and grandparents residence as well.

He conducted additional interviews that bolstered and verified the evidence already obtained by LE that led them to name the parents Suspects.

He has brought more public attention to Deorr's case and has kept it there.

if anyone has anything else to add please feel free! :wave:

 

[LookingForClues]

Poor DeOrr. This case makes me so sad. I keep taking a break because we're all spinning our wheels...over and over and over. STUCK.IN.THE.SAME.PLACE. I checked in today because I saw a new thread and many posts to the last thread that I hadn't read. But, after catching up, nothing new. I wish someone would cave and tell the truth.

 

[koios]

Snake River stands out to me because Vernal kept stumbling over the words or even Salmon Search and Rescue in their first interview with the blanket and cup. Would love to see where that area is and have searchers do a thorough check of all of them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Here is a map of Snake River. It flows from Wyoming through Idaho to Washington.
Leadore (not labelled on the map) is about 75% of the way from Idaho Falls to Salmon.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/SnakeRiverNicerMap.jpg
Credit: By USGS and modified by Shannon1 - Terrain data from DEMIS Mapserver, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=9090697

 

[koios]

"So I went down to where I knew I could get a little service, about a half mile down the road"
Here is half a mile, marked on a map, starting at the campsite (lower left)

 

[koios]

Driving from the campsite down the dirt road towards Leadore, there is a transition at 0.75 miles. For the first 0.75 miles there is fairly dense forest close to the dirt road (see the half-mile map above). Beyond 0.75 miles there isn't, it's not forested.
The presence of easy concealment places near that dirt road is high for the first 0.75 miles. and low beyond that.

 

[The Apparition]

"So I went down to where I knew I could get a little service, about a half mile down the road"
Here is half a mile, marked on a map, starting at the campsite (lower left)

Great! I think many on the board have moved past that statement since Vernal is heard in the background of Jessica's 911 call. He didn't actually go anywhere to call 911 that amongst numerous other pieces of evidence is why the parents are suspects in a "probable: homicide.

LE and Klein have given up on the whole "mountain" scenario so I don't know how much traction your diligent mapping will have. Basically the official investigation has moved off of the campground and mountain entirely, in case you haven't seen that update.

If I were an ambitious lad (I'm not too lazy) I might try and map out places where I thought a body might be dumped other than the camp area. It seems like our beloved protagonists bought plenty of fuel and had all the time in the world to dispose of their sons body elsewhere.

 

[KatieLiz]

Great! I think many on the board have moved past that statement since Vernal is heard in the background of Jessica's 911 call. He didn't actually go anywhere to call 911 that amongst numerous other pieces of evidence is why the parents are suspects in a "probable: homicide.

LE and Klein have given up on the whole "mountain" scenario so I don't know how much traction your diligent mapping will have. Basically the official investigation has moved off of the campground and mountain entirely, in case you haven't seen that update.

If I were an ambitious lad (I'm not too lazy) I might try and map out places where I thought a body might be dumped other than the camp area. It seems like our beloved protagonists bought plenty of fuel and had all the time in the world to dispose of their sons body elsewhere.

I almost wish Klein was the type of PI we see in movies.... staking out J and V and following their every move from a distance (although maybe he employs someone like that, I don't know.)

There's a good chance that they could have buried him somewhere that they could return to unnoticed to "visit" him. As sick as that sounds.

I wonder if the FBI is still involved in this investigation (on the down low).

 

[neesaki]

"So I went down to where I knew I could get a little service, about a half mile down the road"Here is half a mile, marked on a map, starting at the campsite (lower left)

What is your point? I mean, what exactly are you trying to say? That what, you're believing that's what he claimed ? According to LE, this didn't happen.

 

[desert-blue]

If DeOrr's family all agree that Jessica and Vernal (and Bob) are innocent, then why is no one doing anything to find DeOrr? If my kid was missing and I felt I was being falsely accused, I would put some money where my mouth is. I'd pony up my own money (even if meant mortgaging or selling everything thing I own) to offer a reward and to hire a PI of my own selection. That way, I couldn't ***** or complain or blame the public or whatever. I'd take the matter into my own hands and I would do everything possible to find my son and/or find out what happened to him. I wouldn't just sit back and make comments like "someone would have slipped up by now if they were guilty" or "the stories have changed, but that's to be expected" or "they're innocent until proven guilty" All of those statements imply that these suspects have gotten away with disappearing their child but the family is content to just ignore it on the basis that no one has been charged. It's sick. How can anyone support these monsters at the expense of an innocent little boy who is their own flesh and blood? Jessica and Vernal are full-grown adults. They don't need to be protected and coddled- they need to be held accountable for their actions, including their lack of actions in finding their son. Jessica and Vernal should be at the helm when it comes to finding their baby - DeOrr is THEIR child. Watching the parents' behaviors over the past year is one of the most damning pieces of evidence out there. It's too bad their own families refuse to see the forest through the trees and are too complicit and cowardly to stand up and do what's right. MOO.

ETA: Sorry if this sounds harsh but I am so disgusted with this case right now.

 

[KatieLiz]

If DeOrr's family all agree that Jessica and Vernal (and Bob) are innocent, then why is no one doing anything to find DeOrr? If my kid was missing and I felt I was being falsely accused, I would put some money where my mouth is. I'd pony up my own money (even if meant mortgaging or selling everything thing I own) to offer a reward and to hire a PI of my own selection. That way, I couldn't ***** or complain or blame the public or whatever. I'd take the matter into my own hands and I would do everything possible to find my son and/or find out what happened to him. I wouldn't just sit back and make comments like "someone would have slipped up by now if they were guilty" or "the stories have changed, but that's to be expected" or "they're innocent until proven guilty" All of those statements imply that these suspects have gotten away with disappearing their child but the family is content to just ignore it on the basis that no one has been charged. It's sick. How can anyone support these monsters at the expense of an innocent little boy who is their own flesh and blood? Jessica and Vernal are full-grown adults. They don't need to be protected and coddled- they need to be held accountable for their actions, including their lack of actions in finding their son. Jessica and Vernal should be at the helm when it comes to finding their baby - DeOrr is THEIR child. Watching the parents' behaviors over the past year is one of the most damning pieces of evidence out there. It's too bad their own families refuse to see the forest through the trees and are too complicit and cowardly to stand up and do what's right. MOO.

ETA: Sorry if this sounds harsh but I am so disgusted with this case right now.

PREACH!!! SO well said... you should send this to a certain grandmother living in denial...

 

[charminglane]

If DeOrr's family all agree that Jessica and Vernal (and Bob) are innocent, then why is no one doing anything to find DeOrr? If my kid was missing and I felt I was being falsely accused, I would put some money where my mouth is. I'd pony up my own money (even if meant mortgaging or selling everything thing I own) to offer a reward and to hire a PI of my own selection. That way, I couldn't ***** or complain or blame the public or whatever. I'd take the matter into my own hands and I would do everything possible to find my son and/or find out what happened to him. I wouldn't just sit back and make comments like "someone would have slipped up by now if they were guilty" or "the stories have changed, but that's to be expected" or "they're innocent until proven guilty" All of those statements imply that these suspects have gotten away with disappearing their child but the family is content to just ignore it on the basis that no one has been charged. It's sick. How can anyone support these monsters at the expense of an innocent little boy who is their own flesh and blood? Jessica and Vernal are full-grown adults. They don't need to be protected and coddled- they need to be held accountable for their actions, including their lack of actions in finding their son. Jessica and Vernal should be at the helm when it comes to finding their baby - DeOrr is THEIR child. Watching the parents' behaviors over the past year is one of the most damning pieces of evidence out there. It's too bad their own families refuse to see the forest through the trees and are too complicit and cowardly to stand up and do what's right. MOO.

ETA: Sorry if this sounds harsh but I am so disgusted with this case right now.

AMEN!
I'm wondering today if Doerr was dropped down a latrine at a rest stop or campground somewhere else on their way to where they stayed.
They appear too lazy to me to do much digging or harder concealment.

 

[alexwood]

I think they adopted him out -- for money.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think they adopted him out -- for money.

What makes you think that, if you don't mind me asking? I know it was Vilt's favourite theory in the early days, but don't you reckon he'd have been recognised by now?

 

[KatieLiz]

I think they adopted him out -- for money.

I have considered this theory as well but have sat on the fence with it for a while. Surely there would be a trail in their phone or Internet records. Even their financial records have hopefully been examined. I feel like there would have been some hint of a trail, even in the form of deleted texts or emails. So I still sit on the fence on that one.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I have considered this theory as well but have sat on the fence with it for a while. Surely there would be a trail in their phone or Internet records. Even their financial records have hopefully been examined. I feel like there would have been some hint of a trail, even in the form of deleted texts or emails. So I still sit on the fence on that one.

Not to mention, why even go through the trouble of staging the disappearance of your child? Why not just go the legal adoption route with whoever you want to sell the child to and then have them pay you under the table? That's why the adoption theory never made any sense to me.

 

[desert-blue]

I think they adopted him out -- for money.

Besides the lack of any evidence to suggest adoption, comments such as "an accident" and "what's done is done" and other details like the cadaver hits all lead me to believe that adoption is one of the least likely explanations. Plus, why would Vernal and Jessica want to go on with their lives forever labeled as murder suspects? That wouldn't be worth all the tea in China.

 

[koios]

What is your point? I mean, what exactly are you trying to say? That what, you're believing that's what he claimed ? According to LE, this didn't happen.

I accept that some people may believe he never drove off in the truck, that's great, and they may be right, however just my opinion is he did drive off in the truck, although the timing is uncertain.
The purpose of the maps I posted was, I hoped, just to examine the terrain either side of the dirt road leading north east from the campsite,

 

[alexwood]

What makes you think that, if you don't mind me asking? I know it was Vilt's favourite theory in the early days, but don't you reckon he'd have been recognised by now?

Happy to do it, Cover Me, and you are right. I do remember now that this was Vilt's theory early on -- and probably where I got the idea. I admit that I have not followed this case very closely at all.

The reason I think he was "adopted out" for money by the parent(s) is that first of all, I can't imagine anyone harming that little guy -- and certainly not his own parent(s)! I really don't think there was an accidental death. Secondly, I know that people who cannot have their own children, and are financially able, will look for a private adoption, even one with no paper trail involved. I also seem to recall that the parents were not flush with cash, and this would be a way to get some quickly. They certainly didn't waste any time splitting up and going their separate ways. Further J had children by another or other "unions", and apparently didn't have primary custody of them. DeOrr was yet another child. Being financially strapped, Vernal certainly wouldn't mind being relieved of having to pay child support. (I don't recall whether he had any children with someone else.) Finally, if little DeOrr was taken out of state to live his new life with adoptive parent(s), I really don't think he'd be recognized.

All of the above is just based on my personal opinion, speculation, and theory. I may even have confused the facts; there are so many of you who have closely followed this case. I have not. So, don't hesitate to correct me!