ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[CoverMeCagney]

For my part, I'm not entirely sure anyone actually killed Deorr. It would be libellous to state otherwise. Whether or not concealment of a body took place is a different crime.

I believe IR had absolutely nothing to do with it and no knowledge of what happened.

So throw your best theories at me... 'cos I keep reading what you don't believe and I'm a bit confused about what you think could've happened.

 

[Elle*Bee]

How do you add those tags to the bottom of your messages on here? I've seen people who have quotes that appear at the bottom of all their posts. I want this to be mine.

It's been awhile, but I think there's an edit signature feature under Settings.

 

[The Apparition]

Soft soil, a 1m x 0.5m shallow grave, cover it with rocks/stones ,,,,,,about an hour, I reckon.

Well that sounds like it would really stand the test of time and of course not be noticeable at all.

While I'm replying to you something else you mentioned about libel caught my eye. You are right people in this internet day and age should be careful but... good luck trying to sue for defamation when LE has officially named you a suspect in a disappearance/homicide. You are aware the best defense against a defamation suit is if what you are saying is true. Anyone suing for defamation would need to prove that what "you" said was false, very hard to do for Vernal, and Jessica since they seem to have "lost" their son under murky circumstances at best.

 

[sassyblue]

Soft soil, a 1m x 0.5m shallow grave, cover it with rocks/stones ,,,,,,about an hour, I reckon.

I live in Idaho although a different area than where Deorr went missing and I have never been able to dig a hole for anything bigger than a garden vegetable in an hour. I hit volcanic rock and caliche no matter where I attempt to plant a tree or a shrub. And I live in the Boise basin on soil that was farmed in previous years. The mountain where Deorr disappeared I imagine would be even worse soil than mine. IMHO.

 

[misty48]

I live in Idaho although a different area than where Deorr went missing and I have never been able to dig a hole for anything bigger than a garden vegetable in an hour. I hit volcanic rock and caliche no matter where I attempt to plant a tree or a shrub. And I live in the Boise basin on soil that was farmed in previous years. The mountain where Deorr disappeared I imagine would be even worse soil than mine. IMHO.

What about the soil immediately beside the creek - how deep would you have to dig before you hit rock?

 

[koios]

So throw your best theories at me... 'cos I keep reading what you don't believe and I'm a bit confused about what you think could've happened.

What were the greatest safety risks to a small child at that location in that time period.
For example in the BN case one might answer - there was a large vehicle moving, and there was a hydraulic digger arm being operated.
In this case I would answer - there was a large vehicle moving, and there was a stream.
Those were the two greatest risks within small child walking distance from the campsite in that time period, in my opinion.

 

[misty48]

I would add the steep bank down to the creek to that list.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I live in Idaho although a different area than where Deorr went missing and I have never been able to dig a hole for anything bigger than a garden vegetable in an hour. I hit volcanic rock and caliche no matter where I attempt to plant a tree or a shrub. And I live in the Boise basin on soil that was farmed in previous years. The mountain where Deorr disappeared I imagine would be even worse soil than mine. IMHO.

I'm about 3.5 hours north of where Deorr went missing. I definitely agree with you about the soil being harder to dig through in Leadore vs. Boise.

To those of you not from the area, Deorr went missing in the Rocky Mountains. Emphasis on ROCKY.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

What were the greatest safety risks to a small child at that location in that time period.
For example in the BN case one might answer - there was a large vehicle moving, and there was a hydraulic digger arm being operated.
In this case I would answer - there was a large vehicle moving, and there was a stream.
Those were the two greatest risks within small child walking distance from the campsite in that time period, in my opinion.

So if he fell in the stream what's the first thing you do? Call 911.

As for being hit by a vehicle, I have said all along I think this is a strong possibility. But again, why not call 911? Because someone was drink-driving?

The million dollar question is, assuming either of those tragic and accidental events occurred, why are the Leadore Four going to such lengths to hide the truth? What are they hiding?

 

[ZooSleuth]

What were the greatest safety risks to a small child at that location in that time period.
For example in the BN case one might answer - there was a large vehicle moving, and there was a hydraulic digger arm being operated.
In this case I would answer - there was a large vehicle moving, and there was a stream.
Those were the two greatest risks within small child walking distance from the campsite in that time period, in my opinion.

Thanks for a logical response. I can respect anybody's stance that believes Deorr may have wandered off into the stream or elsewhere and still has not been found since it's not uncommon for this to happen in other cases. I don't agree with it but I can respect it.

What I don't find logical, however, is the assertion that the parents don't know what happened to Deorr or where he is, yet IR could possibly be responsible. By the parent's own account IR was with them (or at least JM was with IR by IR's account) when Deorr was alleged to have gone missing. So if you think the parent's are innocent, then you must believe their story about when Deorr went missing. So if you believe their story, then how on earth can you believe IR could have been responsible if he was with at least one of the parent's at the time Deorr went poof? @misty48 please explain how IR can be in two places at one time.

 

[koios]

I would add the steep bank down to the creek to that list.

Yes you could add that, however I think terminal accident by falling down an incline of that height and slope, although possible, would be less probable than drowning or vehicular causes, both of which are statistically major risks.

 

[sassyblue]

What about the soil immediately beside the creek - how deep would you have to dig before you hit rock?

Since I live next to another Idaho creek I would say in my opinion just an inch or so. This whole area is volcanic rock and I would have to think the creek bed in the campground is too. IMHO

And what a lot of people don't understand is how dry our climate is. I checked Leadore's annual rainfall and it's slightly over 9 inches. We are so very dry here and what water we do get disappears fast and leaves a hard soil behind.

 

[misty48]

Since I live next to another Idaho creek I would say in my opinion just an inch or so. This whole area is volcanic rock and I would have to think the creek bed in the campground is too. IMHO

And what a lot of people don't understand is how dry our climate is. I checked Leadore's annual rainfall and it's slightly over 9 inches. We are so very dry here and what water we do get disappears fast and leaves a hard soil behind.

How deep do the roots of the trees go? There is a lot of vegetation thriving beside the creek.

https://youtu.be/izUz0Ul6N0g?t=22

 

[misty48]

Yes you could add that, however I think terminal accident by falling down an incline of that height and slope, although possible, would be less probable than drowning or vehicular causes, both of which are statistically major risks.

A broken neck caused by falling down a steep bank could be classed as a terminal accident. In the campground,locale, in order to reach the water the bank must first be negotiated.

 

[Onebest]

What about the soil immediately beside the creek - how deep would you have to dig before you hit rock?

Doesnt matter. No evidence to say it ever happened. Hundreds of searchers, LE, family members dogs never saw, found, smelled or located a freshly dug grave with a body in it. Unless all those folks and critters were blind dumb and stupid they would have found a fresh grave near the creek. JMO

 

[koios]

Thanks for a logical response. I can respect anybody's stance that believes Deorr may have wandered off into the stream or elsewhere and still has not been found since it's not uncommon for this to happen in other cases. I don't agree with it but I can respect it.

What I don't find logical, however, is the assertion that the parents don't know what happened to Deorr or where he is, yet IR could possibly be responsible. By the parent's own account IR was with them (or at least JM was with IR by IR's account) when Deorr was alleged to have gone missing. So if you think the parent's are innocent, then you must believe their story about when Deorr went missing. So if you believe their story, then how on earth can you believe IR could have been responsible if he was with at least one of the parent's at the time Deorr went poof? @misty48 please explain how IR can be in two places at one time.

I've never posted anything like "V and J are not involved" (nor anything like "V and J are involved"). And my opinion on I is that he has no knowledge of involvement whatsoever.
But looking at the hypothesis you mention, that I might have been involved alone, this seems highly unlikely, because the area close to the campsite was intensely searched, and to transport to a more distant location (beyond the area that has since been intensely searched) would presumably require a vehicle, but there is no indication that I ever drove a vehicle during this period, which would surely have been noticed if he did, and this is one of the reasons why in my opinion I had no involvement in whatever happened.

 

[koios]

A broken neck caused by falling down a steep bank could be classed as a terminal accident. In the campground,locale, in order to reach the water the bank must first be negotiated.

Yes it is possible, but of child terminal accidents statistically one can find many examples by drowning, many examples by vehicular blind-area backover or frontover, few by fall down non-vertical incline.

 

[misty48]

Yes it is possible, but of child terminal accidents statistically one can find many examples by drowning, many examples by vehicular blind-area backover or frontover, few by fall down non-vertical incline.

Don't most toddler deaths by drowning occur in easily accessible water such as swimming pools & garden ponds?
At what stage in the trip, during which the parents behaved normally by purchasing candy at the store & then gas, would you consider a vehicle accident could have occurred?

 

[misty48]

Doesnt matter. No evidence to say it ever happened. Hundreds of searchers, LE, family members dogs never saw, found, smelled or located a freshly dug grave with a body in it. Unless all those folks and critters were blind dumb and stupid they would have found a fresh grave near the creek. JMO

I posted a link at #270. In that case, a perpetrator took the UK police to the location where he had buried the body. Human & cadaver examination of the area initially produced no results. It was only the introduction of a mechanical digger to remove layers of soil which resulted in the shallow grave, containing the body wrapped in plastic sheeting, being uncovered.

 

[koios]

Since I live next to another Idaho creek I would say in my opinion just an inch or so. This whole area is volcanic rock and I would have to think the creek bed in the campground is too. IMHO

And what a lot of people don't understand is how dry our climate is. I checked Leadore's annual rainfall and it's slightly over 9 inches. We are so very dry here and what water we do get disappears fast and leaves a hard soil behind.

Yes that's dry. I think you get lots of snow in the mountains in winter, but 1 inch of snow equals only about a tenth of an inch of water, or much less if it's dry snow.
With your Idaho knowledge, does debris falling into a creek like the one at the campsite just stay were it falls in? Or does it travel downstream? I figure it can't all stay where it falls in, because the creek would completely block everywhere it passes through woods, therefore it must travel downstream?