ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[desert-blue]

You're right - nothing about this case makes much sense... If it was an accident, though, I suspect there was some major negligence. I guess they decided to take their chances and cover-up their crimes - the burden of proof is on the state. Why fess up and go to jail? I think the abduction idea sort of fell in their laps because it was the only theory that didn't implicate them and would account for no trace of DeOrr being found. They kind of had to jump on that bandwagon. MOO.

ETA: Well, they also went with the Bigfoot/411 theory for awhile - that would be the only other explanation that would leave no trace ("he just vanished") and also have the parents being innocent.

 

[desert-blue]

I think it makes it even more sick if your child accidentally died and you can cover it up and go on with your life and allow your family to spend their time and resources searching and holding out hope that he is alive somewhere.... psychopathic behaviour IMO.

I agree 100%. A person would have to have no conscience at all to carry out this charade for this amount of time. I think LE (and Klein) thought someone would crack at some point, because it's just so hard to comprehend a person keeping this secret and going on with life.

 

[The Apparition]

There are many people on here who are asserting that the ground is too hard & rocky to bury the body of a toddler at the campground. However, during the searches carried out by Klein Investigations/Tracy + Chance, the dog alerted to a spot where a searcher's dog was found to have been buried. If it is possible to bury a dog (apparently unnoticed by LE at the time) why is it not possible to bury a young child? I don't think the searcher would have been carrying grave-digging machinery with him.

You have a real talent for this I must say. Please don't bring misinformation into the incredible complex web you are weaving. It was not a searchers dog that was buried up at the campground, it was a deceased dog that was buried prior to all the events with Deorr. Apparently whatever hunter or hill person buried their dog up there also cut themselves in the process of digging the grave and there was a rag with human blood on it deposited in the grave.

 

[Onebest]

I'm having a hard time following your theories...

What I'm taking away is you think the 4 adults are innocent and he was abducted. But you also think he wandered and was missed by all the searchers and dogs. But you also think IR somehow killed him even though he was with Jessica, and then buried him in the creek or the rocky terrain. But you also think he accidentally drowned. But you also think he fell down the hill and broke his neck. But that can't make sense because you believe the search is genuine and that Vernal did drive away for signal to call 911.

So.... im not sure how to follow this dialogue anymore.

No wonder.... I was banging my head against the wall!!:banghead:

 

[neesaki]

The dogs are a very useful tool for providing indication (not proof) of cadaver. It should also been borne in mind that they alert to dried blood from living humans. I am aware of their capabilities & limitations as the subject of cadaver dogs has been "done to death" on another forum I frequent.
The case of David Guilfoyle is an interesting read due to the open nature of the terrain in which the body had been deposited.
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/J_Homicide_MII/J_Homicide_10.2.pdf Page 60 onwards.
The vast area LE have to search for Deorr, combined with the fast-moving creek, provide the various agencies with an incredibly difficult task if a body has been deliberately concealed.
As far as Klein's comment about a holding area is concerned - he said Deorr was never at the campground, so effectively he dismissed the relevance of Chance's alerts IMO.

IIRC, Klein said that he doesn't believe Deorr was ever at the campground "alive". But please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong. TIA

 

[J4cknsal1y]

IIRC, Klein said that he doesn't believe Deorr was ever at the campground "alive". But please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong. TIA

Bingo! I recall the same thing, but couldn't find a link, then got busy with my daughter & forgot to find Said link.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

All 4 people at the camp had access to a spade (if they knew of its existence) & probably a refuse sack of some sort - not just IR.The degree to which plastic is permeable depends on several factors, including temperature.

A spade ? Or do you mean a "shovel" ? They are different tools to me, but maybe it's a regional thing.

 

[neesaki]

You are stating this as fact. You have a a link to substantiate this statement? If not, its just your opinion I assume?

Apparently so. But then Misty48 also indicated she also seemed to know that Chance should have alerted to the reservoir.

 

[The Apparition]

and he even had tears!!.....REAL ones!

He was thinking of a real sweet John Deere hat that he lost. The secret to crocodile tears is you have to find your motivation.

 

[neesaki]

Soft soil, a 1m x 0.5m shallow grave, cover it with rocks/stones ,,,,,,about an hour, I reckon.

Do you have some vital information you'd like to share with us ? We're all ears.

 

[seventeenseconds]

So if he fell in the stream what's the first thing you do? Call 911.

As for being hit by a vehicle, I have said all along I think this is a strong possibility. But again, why not call 911? Because someone was drink-driving?

The million dollar question is, assuming either of those tragic and accidental events occurred, why are the Leadore Four going to such lengths to hide the truth? What are they hiding?

He could have been beaten. I don't think they would call 911 if that happened. Idk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

Soft soil, a 1m x 0.5m shallow grave, cover it with rocks/stones ,,,,,,about an hour, I reckon.

FWIW, I keep thinking of Arkansas rocky soil, which there's no way I, or my quite strong husband, could dig a 3 foot grave. Even where I live in Texas, the soil is very hard after a few inches. We had a beloved dog die a few years ago and my husband in his grief, just doing what he was taught as a boy, went and buried him, I helped him, we wrapped him in his blankie. But couldn't go deeper than about 18 inches. Not rock, but clay. We were both crying and grieving to the point that we weren't even rational at the time. So, the next morning, I awakened to the reality of it all, and realized I couldn't bear our baby being there at the mercy of scavengers. My husband was at work, so I went and dug my baby up myself along with his blanket.... I placed him in a box and took him to be cremated. We now have his ashes stored in a carved wooden box. I cry about him to this day and this was eight years ago. And this was my dog.

So, do you think that anyone that could come close to being called "parents" bury their flesh and blood baby boy in a shallow grave? If so, why?

 

[KatieLiz]

He could have been beaten. I don't think they would call 911 if that happened. Idk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes he "could have been beaten"... hence the intentional homicide theory (substantiated by Sheriff Bowerman).

 

[The Apparition]

A spade ? Or do you mean a "shovel" ? They are different tools to me, but maybe it's a regional thing.

Whichever is more confusing is what they are referring to. I heard they had a giant spork up on the mountain and I think we all know what that means...

 

[KatieLiz]

Whichever is more confusing is what they are referring to. I heard they had a giant spork up on the mountain and I think we all know what that means...

I've snorted twice today at things you've said. You're on a roll buddy. Lol

This, and "the answer is a long time". Haha

 

[neesaki]

Whichever is more confusing is what they are referring to. I heard they had a giant spork up on the mountain and I think we all know what that means...

That must be the answer, a giant spork! LOL

 

[KatieLiz]

FWIW, I keep thinking of Arkansas rocky soil, which there's no way I, or my quite strong husband, could dig a 3 foot grave. Even where I live in Texas, the soil is very hard after a few inches. We had a beloved dog die a few years ago and my husband in his grief, just doing what he was taught as a boy, went and buried him, I helped him, we wrapped him in his blankie. But couldn't go deeper than about 18 inches. Not rock, but clay. We were both crying and grieving to the point that we weren't even rational at the time. So, the next morning, I awakened to the reality of it all, and realized I couldn't bear our baby being there at the mercy of scavengers. My husband was at work, so I went and dug my baby up myself along with his blanket.... I placed him in a box and took him to be cremated. We now have his ashes stored in a carved wooden box. I cry about him to this day and this was eight years ago. And this was my dog.

So, do you think that anyone that could come close to being called "parents" bury their flesh and blood baby boy in a shallow grave? If so, why?

Off topic:

That broke my heart. My pup turned 6 the other day, and while for most breeds that isn't very old, he is a giant breed with hip and leg problems. His breeds life expectancy is 6-8 years. I know this day will be coming sooner than later.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

And to answer your question: only monsters could dispose of their child. Cold and heartless. Dead inside.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

For innocent parents whose child has seemingly disappeared into thin air and no trace ever found after repeated extensive searches, abduction is the most plausible scenario. Repeated searching of the last-known location of Deorr demonstrates that they do not know where he is imo.

Jessica and Vernal aren't living a nightmare and aren't greaving, at least I would expect complete different behavior IF they were suffering and I would expect zero lies. It is beyond me why someone is able to believe her/his own support ideas.

The real nightmare is this:

Ben Needham died in an accident, say police after finding personal 'item' at search site

British detectives flew to the island to excavate key sites after receiving information a digger driver, now deceased, may have run over the toddler.

The three-week dig culminated in the partial demolition of a farmhouse on the site where Ben, from Sheffield, was last seen on July 24 more than two decades ago.

It is thought he died on the day he disappeared.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/72...s-farmhouse-toddler-missing-police-dig-search

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Jessica and Vernal aren't living a nightmare and aren't greaving, at least I would expect complete different behavior IF they were suffering and I would expect zero lies. It is beyond me why someone is able to believe her/his own support ideas.

The real nightmare is this:

Ben Needham died in an accident, say police after finding personal 'item' at search site



http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/72...s-farmhouse-toddler-missing-police-dig-search

I totally agree. Watch any interview with Kerry Needham - 25 years since Ben went missing. Now THAT is a grieving parent.

 

[desert-blue]

I totally agree. Watch any interview with Kerry Needham - 25 years since Ben went missing. Now THAT is a grieving parent.

In the interviews with Jessica and Vernal, especially after they were named suspects, they just seem bothered and irritated. Concern (or grief) for their missing child doesn't really come through, at least to me.