ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes this!

I have gone a million directions in my mind but I keep coming back to the truck also. In that scenario I would assume the driver was high or drunk when the accident happened. I go one further and imagine perhaps there were other factors involved which led the parents down to cover it up. You would certainly get in trouble if you were drunk and drove over your kid, but what would make both parents clam up? I know this is speculation but if Deorr had some other injuries when he was killed perhaps that would make both parents circle the wagons.

Nothing that hasn't been said 100 times but it's safe to say something dirty and terrible happened to make both of these traitorous people able to unify and stonewall the investigators, despite not even being a couple any longer.

bbm and underlined

Yes, I think it's safe to say so (and well said )!

 

[haven71]

I felt strongly after seeing the first interview that Deorr was NEVER at the campsite. But then after a couple weeks, Bowerman said he was 99% sure he WAS at the campsite.

But now, it is clear that almost anything is possible, and by that I mean the parents and possibly GGP and IR covered up an accident or intentional killing, before or during the camping trip. It worries me that the campsite was a cover all along, because Deorr's body could be ANYWHERE in that case. Nobody seems likely to crack so I feel we'd have to hope someone would stumble upon his bones someday in order for closure and hopefully justice.

I've been wondering lately though...I have a hard time believing Jess and Deorr were engaged at the time. It seems like they despise each other in the interviews! There was the candlelight vigil when Jessica was crying and nestled into Vernal, but aside from that, which was possibly for show, I find no warmth at all in their interactions, quite the contrary. Klein mentioned Jessica's relationship with her (now ex-husband?) may have been taking place before Deorr even went missing. I would not be surprised. But for some reason Jessica and Vernal decided it was in their best interest to make it seem like all was well in Kunzville at the time of Deorr's disappearance.

I think he was probably beaten to death, but I don't dismiss the possibility of an accident, and as I've said a million times before, if that's the case I believe the cover up took place to hide evidence of prior physical abuse. It's one thing to lose it, but if they regularly harmed Deorr imagine how much more harmful to their precious reputations that would be if it ever came to light. Pure speculation, but it makes sense to me.

Also, Vernal's mention of the other "black truck" and a reference to himself trespassing while searching for Deorr. This makes me uneasy. I feel like he mentioned another black truck so if his was seen where it wasn't supposed to be (or reported to be), it could just be waved off as "oh, it must've been that other black truck." On the other hand, the fact that he mentioned trespassing, makes me think he did so to explain away any unusual places his truck may have been seen. Not because he was supposedly searching for his son, but because he was hiding him. This makes sense to me, and makes me wonder if there really was a temporary holding place on the mountain for Deorr's body before it was disposed of/hidden.

It makes me SICK and ANGRY to think that when Klein announced the case going cold, that Vernal and Jessica and other family likely were grinning from ear to ear, and feeling great relief. Maybe they weren't, but based on their behavior and demeanor from Day 1 I would not be surprised.

Deorr, I'm still praying for you.

 

[Onebest]

I felt strongly after seeing the first interview that Deorr was NEVER at the campsite. But then after a couple weeks, Bowerman said he was 99% sure he WAS at the campsite.

But now, it is clear that almost anything is possible, and by that I mean the parents and possibly GGP and IR covered up an accident or intentional killing, before or during the camping trip. It worries me that the campsite was a cover all along, because Deorr's body could be ANYWHERE in that case. Nobody seems likely to crack so I feel we'd have to hope someone would stumble upon his bones someday in order for closure and hopefully justice.

I've been wondering lately though...I have a hard time believing Jess and Deorr were engaged at the time. It seems like they despise each other in the interviews! There was the candlelight vigil when Jessica was crying and nestled into Vernal, but aside from that, which was possibly for show, I find no warmth at all in their interactions, quite the contrary. Klein mentioned Jessica's relationship with her (now ex-husband?) may have been taking place before Deorr even went missing. I would not be surprised. But for some reason Jessica and Vernal decided it was in their best interest to make it seem like all was well in Kunzville at the time of Deorr's disappearance.

I think he was probably beaten to death, but I don't dismiss the possibility of an accident, and as I've said a million times before, if that's the case I believe the cover up took place to hide evidence of prior physical abuse. It's one thing to lose it, but if they regularly harmed Deorr imagine how much more harmful to their precious reputations that would be if it ever came to light. Pure speculation, but it makes sense to me.

Also, Vernal's mention of the other "black truck" and a reference to himself trespassing while searching for Deorr. This makes me uneasy. I feel like he mentioned another black truck so if his was seen where it wasn't supposed to be (or reported to be), it could just be waved off as "oh, it must've been that other black truck." On the other hand, the fact that he mentioned trespassing, makes me think he did so to explain away any unusual places his truck may have been seen. Not because he was supposedly searching for his son, but because he was hiding him. This makes sense to me, and makes me wonder if there really was a temporary holding place on the mountain for Deorr's body before it was disposed of/hidden.

It makes me SICK and ANGRY to think that when Klein announced the case going cold, that Vernal and Jessica and other family likely were grinning from ear to ear, and feeling great relief. Maybe they weren't, but based on their behavior and demeanor from Day 1 I would not be surprised.

Deorr, I'm still praying for you.

BBM, I spit my wine on this one haven, good post!! And I think you are on to something here. I never thought about this before. WHY did they think it was so important to play the perfect couple?? We all know now it was just a big lie but why were they trying to look good in the public eye from the get go portraying themselves as a nice young couple, nice family, nice loving parents to their baby boy innocently camping on the creek and BOOM baby Deoor is gone right out from under their nose.

I think it was to deceive all of us into feeling pity and sadness for them instead of suspicion. JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

What if the Ex Vernal and the new husband JA plus Jessica are all 3 responsible for little Deorr's fate? I could imagine JM played around with her two woreshipers and used one man against the other man. One man lost control before the other did and did something brutal to little Deorr (both males are predestined in their role as an old and new lover) AND JM had caused the outbreak with whatever intrigue. Now the trio had to cover up: Vernal and JM acted like a "young innocent grieving" couple and went on their notorius camping trip (no word about their broken relationship). They used the TV interviews to bow their head against partner's shoulder while intensive sniffeling (JM on Vernal's shoulder, Vernal on JM's shoulder) and tried to show an intact union. All the same they allegedly went to the Leadore store "as a family" - Vernal and JM are known to this big show at least with wording it. After the grieving-show of VDK/JM then JA-male and JA-female had to play the other part of the screenplay: a newly wed couple, happy and unstressed, female bright smiling up on the arms of the next male fool (sorry, man). Maybe this wedding has also been a fake to further cover up the crime and to protect the 3 actors (VDK/JA-female/JA-male)? It would be logical if little Deorr is buried around the area where these 3 people had their confrontations. - All MOO and assumptions of course. Nothing seems impossible.


JM= Jessica before wedding
JA-female= Jessica after wedding

 

[neesaki]

I felt strongly after seeing the first interview that Deorr was NEVER at the campsite. But then after a couple weeks, Bowerman said he was 99% sure he WAS at the campsite.

But now, it is clear that almost anything is possible, and by that I mean the parents and possibly GGP and IR covered up an accident or intentional killing, before or during the camping trip. It worries me that the campsite was a cover all along, because Deorr's body could be ANYWHERE in that case. Nobody seems likely to crack so I feel we'd have to hope someone would stumble upon his bones someday in order for closure and hopefully justice.

I've been wondering lately though...I have a hard time believing Jess and Deorr were engaged at the time. It seems like they despise each other in the interviews! There was the candlelight vigil when Jessica was crying and nestled into Vernal, but aside from that, which was possibly for show, I find no warmth at all in their interactions, quite the contrary. Klein mentioned Jessica's relationship with her (now ex-husband?) may have been taking place before Deorr even went missing. I would not be surprised. But for some reason Jessica and Vernal decided it was in their best interest to make it seem like all was well in Kunzville at the time of Deorr's disappearance.

I think he was probably beaten to death, but I don't dismiss the possibility of an accident, and as I've said a million times before, if that's the case I believe the cover up took place to hide evidence of prior physical abuse. It's one thing to lose it, but if they regularly harmed Deorr imagine how much more harmful to their precious reputations that would be if it ever came to light. Pure speculation, but it makes sense to me.

Also, Vernal's mention of the other "black truck" and a reference to himself trespassing while searching for Deorr. This makes me uneasy. I feel like he mentioned another black truck so if his was seen where it wasn't supposed to be (or reported to be), it could just be waved off as "oh, it must've been that other black truck." On the other hand, the fact that he mentioned trespassing, makes me think he did so to explain away any unusual places his truck may have been seen. Not because he was supposedly searching for his son, but because he was hiding him. This makes sense to me, and makes me wonder if there really was a temporary holding place on the mountain for Deorr's body before it was disposed of/hidden.

It makes me SICK and ANGRY to think that when Klein announced the case going cold, that Vernal and Jessica and other family likely were grinning from ear to ear, and feeling great relief. Maybe they weren't, but based on their behavior and demeanor from Day 1 I would not be surprised.

Deorr, I'm still praying for you.

Good point about the parents attempting to appear to be a couple when, as you say they seemed to just be resentful of one another. This has all been a charade since day one on their part, IMO. Maybe that's one reason Vilt believes they passed little Deorr off to someone though he could have other reasons as well, idk.
I'm thinking that for sure J, not sure about VDK, was resentful of little Deorr because she wanted to have a free life to do what SHE wanted to do. She had no interest in being a mother, IMO. Actually, didn't TBC say something like this in one of Klein's video clips? Anyone remember?
Regarding VDKs response on the black truck, it will go down in history for me as one of the most bizarre things to hear in an interview of a parent with a missing child. Totally off the wall and a Huge red flag. Jmo

 

[neesaki]

Just checked out a screenshot over on Klein's FB. I'm fuming.... if my daughter talked to me the way J talks to TBC (her mother), I'd ... well, I'll refrain.... :stormingmad: Both of poor little Deorr's parents are incredibly crude, foul mouthed, and disrespectful of others, even their elders, it's totally disgusting. I can just imagine how they treated that baby.

 

[bluesneakers]

I felt strongly after seeing the first interview that Deorr was NEVER at the campsite. But then after a couple weeks, Bowerman said he was 99% sure he WAS at the campsite.

But now, it is clear that almost anything is possible, and by that I mean the parents and possibly GGP and IR covered up an accident or intentional killing, before or during the camping trip. It worries me that the campsite was a cover all along, because Deorr's body could be ANYWHERE in that case. Nobody seems likely to crack so I feel we'd have to hope someone would stumble upon his bones someday in order for closure and hopefully justice.

I've been wondering lately though...I have a hard time believing Jess and Deorr were engaged at the time. It seems like they despise each other in the interviews! There was the candlelight vigil when Jessica was crying and nestled into Vernal, but aside from that, which was possibly for show, I find no warmth at all in their interactions, quite the contrary. Klein mentioned Jessica's relationship with her (now ex-husband?) may have been taking place before Deorr even went missing. I would not be surprised. But for some reason Jessica and Vernal decided it was in their best interest to make it seem like all was well in Kunzville at the time of Deorr's disappearance.

I think he was probably beaten to death, but I don't dismiss the possibility of an accident, and as I've said a million times before, if that's the case I believe the cover up took place to hide evidence of prior physical abuse. It's one thing to lose it, but if they regularly harmed Deorr imagine how much more harmful to their precious reputations that would be if it ever came to light. Pure speculation, but it makes sense to me.

Also, Vernal's mention of the other "black truck" and a reference to himself trespassing while searching for Deorr. This makes me uneasy. I feel like he mentioned another black truck so if his was seen where it wasn't supposed to be (or reported to be), it could just be waved off as "oh, it must've been that other black truck." On the other hand, the fact that he mentioned trespassing, makes me think he did so to explain away any unusual places his truck may have been seen. Not because he was supposedly searching for his son, but because he was hiding him. This makes sense to me, and makes me wonder if there really was a temporary holding place on the mountain for Deorr's body before it was disposed of/hidden.

It makes me SICK and ANGRY to think that when Klein announced the case going cold, that Vernal and Jessica and other family likely were grinning from ear to ear, and feeling great relief. Maybe they weren't, but based on their behavior and demeanor from Day 1 I would not be surprised.

Deorr, I'm still praying for you.

It makes a lot of sense they hid him to cover up signs of abuse and even if his death was an accident they would be exposed.

I always had the feeling IR wasn't included in the cover up but then had to go along, and that everything other than DeOrr's death was orchestrated by GGP.

The black truck has always been a giant wtf for me. It came off like he was answering a specific question that no one asked, and she went along like the explanation was plausible and the issue should be dismissed. Like we should all understand exactly what he meant and thinking oh, I get it now - he has a black truck. ???

I never considered it before but you're right there's a good chance they weren't a couple. I never got an in love vibe but assumed it was all after DeOrr. Do you think what happened to him had something to do with their relationship? Like one wanting to stay together or one wanting out? (If it was either of those my money is on JM.)

 

[Wishes527]

I felt strongly after seeing the first interview that Deorr was NEVER at the campsite. But then after a couple weeks, Bowerman said he was 99% sure he WAS at the campsite.

But now, it is clear that almost anything is possible, and by that I mean the parents and possibly GGP and IR covered up an accident or intentional killing, before or during the camping trip. It worries me that the campsite was a cover all along, because Deorr's body could be ANYWHERE in that case. Nobody seems likely to crack so I feel we'd have to hope someone would stumble upon his bones someday in order for closure and hopefully justice.

I've been wondering lately though...I have a hard time believing Jess and Deorr were engaged at the time. It seems like they despise each other in the interviews! There was the candlelight vigil when Jessica was crying and nestled into Vernal, but aside from that, which was possibly for show, I find no warmth at all in their interactions, quite the contrary. Klein mentioned Jessica's relationship with her (now ex-husband?) may have been taking place before Deorr even went missing. I would not be surprised. But for some reason Jessica and Vernal decided it was in their best interest to make it seem like all was well in Kunzville at the time of Deorr's disappearance.

I think he was probably beaten to death, but I don't dismiss the possibility of an accident, and as I've said a million times before, if that's the case I believe the cover up took place to hide evidence of prior physical abuse. It's one thing to lose it, but if they regularly harmed Deorr imagine how much more harmful to their precious reputations that would be if it ever came to light. Pure speculation, but it makes sense to me.

Also, Vernal's mention of the other "black truck" and a reference to himself trespassing while searching for Deorr. This makes me uneasy. I feel like he mentioned another black truck so if his was seen where it wasn't supposed to be (or reported to be), it could just be waved off as "oh, it must've been that other black truck." On the other hand, the fact that he mentioned trespassing, makes me think he did so to explain away any unusual places his truck may have been seen. Not because he was supposedly searching for his son, but because he was hiding him. This makes sense to me, and makes me wonder if there really was a temporary holding place on the mountain for Deorr's body before it was disposed of/hidden.

It makes me SICK and ANGRY to think that when Klein announced the case going cold, that Vernal and Jessica and other family likely were grinning from ear to ear, and feeling great relief. Maybe they weren't, but based on their behavior and demeanor from Day 1 I would not be surprised.

Deorr, I'm still praying for you.

I haven't posted, but I do follow this thread almost every day. Thank you for this post, I have gone through scenario after scenario in my head, and every time I come back to a very similar conclusion. I personally don't believe Deorr was ever at the campground, I believe something happened prior to and the whole camp site was staged. I always go back to, why would anyone cover something up, because they have something to hide that would come out either through examination of the child, or from the parents. I would imagine LE would have handled things differently had they come to the scene of a child that had passed, such as immediate drug tests etc.

I wanted to give the parents the benefit of the doubt back in the beginning, but their actions speak volumes to me. None of the actions I would expect from a grieving parent that has no closure on where their child has gone.

I hope that the officials can back track to the days before the camping, I whole-heartedly believe that's where the answer is.

 

[KatieLiz]

I wish we knew from one of these adults when the last time they can 100% prove Deorr was alive, to at least narrow a timeline and prove if he was alive before that trip. Can't they remember when the last time they took him into a store with cameras? I doubt myself and my toddler go a single day without being picked up on CCTV somewhere. We can't take TBC'S word that she saw him Wednesday. I've said this before but where are the neighbour's? Can someone outside this family and IR not confirm the last time they saw this child?

 

[SubtleGrace]

I wish we knew from one of these adults when the last time they can 100% prove Deorr was alive, to at least narrow a timeline and prove if he was alive before that trip. Can't they remember when the last time they took him into a store with cameras? I doubt myself and my toddler go a single day without being picked up on CCTV somewhere. We can't take TBC'S word that she saw him Wednesday. I've said this before but where are the neighbour's? Can someone outside this family and IR not confirm the last time they saw this child?

I spoke with a distant relative on July 13, 2015. She saw Deorr at TBC's on July 3, 2015 at a barbecue. She said he looked healthy and happy, no obvious signs of abuse.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Just checked out a screenshot over on Klein's FB. I'm fuming.... if my daughter talked to me the way J talks to TBC (her mother), I'd ... well, I'll refrain.... :stormingmad: Both of poor little Deorr's parents are incredibly crude, foul mouthed, and disrespectful of others, even their elders, it's totally disgusting. I can just imagine how they treated that baby.

Give us a clue, Neesaki, I can't find it!

 

[koios]

What is the absolute latest possible time (relative to other events) that the critical event could have happened?

 

[SubtleGrace]

What is the absolute latest possible time (relative to other events) that the critical event could have happened?

My guess would be Thursday evening, between 6-9pm.

 

[sassyblue]

Give us a clue, Neesaki, I can't find it!

The screenshot is in the comments section of the Klein post "Press Release: In the Matter of DeOrr Kunz Jr.
October 14, 2016"

 

[Onebest]

My guess would be Thursday evening, between 6-9pm.

Can you explain why you feel this way? And thank for the info from distant relative. I assume she told LE. I still dont understand why the missing information on last known point when baby Deoor was seen alive like KatieLz states... I always thought it was part of the investigation info we are not privy to but dont know why its a secret either!

Welcome Wishes, nice to have you joining in discussion.

JMO

 

[SubtleGrace]

Can you explain why you feel this way? And thank for the info from distant relative. I assume she told LE. I still dont understand why the missing information on last known point when baby Deoor was seen alive like KatieLz states... I always thought it was part of the investigation info we are not privy to but dont know why its a secret either!

Welcome Wishes, nice to have you joining in discussion.

JMO

It is my opinion that the "Leadore Four" met in Leadore Thursday evening, but not to camp. Something happened to baby Deorr, so Vernal and Jessica drove back to Idaho Falls, to get the camper to set up an alibi. This would explain why Jessica turned her phone off at 9:38pm. GGpa and IR stayed behind, probably with Vernal's cell phone, at the campsite. Most likely working on the whiskey IR mentioned in his last interview. After Jessica and Vernal returned to Leadore, and on to the campsite, they waited until it was light, then they traveled an unknown distance to hide baby Deorr's body. When they went back to Leadore to set up the "as a family" alibi, they needed fuel after all that traveling, which is why they had to use red dye diesel, even though it's illegal, that's how empty the tank was.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It is my opinion that the "Leadore Four" met in Leadore Thursday evening, but not to camp. Something happened to baby Deorr, so Vernal and Jessica drove back to Idaho Falls, to get the camper to set up an alibi. This would explain why Jessica turned her phone off at 9:38pm. GGpa and IR stayed behind, probably with Vernal's cell phone, at the campsite. Most likely working on the whiskey IR mentioned in his last interview. After Jessica and Vernal returned to Leadore, and on to the campsite, they waited until it was light, then they traveled an unknown distance to hide baby Deorr's body. When they went back to Leadore to set up the "as a family" alibi, they needed fuel after all that traveling, which is why they had to use red dye diesel, even though it's illegal, that's how empty the tank was.

I like it (and glad Leadore Four has stuck lol!) but why would they meet in Leadore if not to camp?

 

[The Apparition]

It is my opinion that the "Leadore Four" met in Leadore Thursday evening, but not to camp. Something happened to baby Deorr, so Vernal and Jessica drove back to Idaho Falls, to get the camper to set up an alibi. This would explain why Jessica turned her phone off at 9:38pm. GGpa and IR stayed behind, probably with Vernal's cell phone, at the campsite. Most likely working on the whiskey IR mentioned in his last interview. After Jessica and Vernal returned to Leadore, and on to the campsite, they waited until it was light, then they traveled an unknown distance to hide baby Deorr's body. When they went back to Leadore to set up the "as a family" alibi, they needed fuel after all that traveling, which is why they had to use red dye diesel, even though it's illegal, that's how empty the tank was.

Excellent working theory!

I had not heard before that Jessica shut her phone off at 9:38 pm (so exact) Thursday. I know there is something fishy about the diesel purchase as it's been reported they bought fuel 2x in a short time but I've never seen the exact times or purchase amounts released either. It would be great if LE could throw us a bone and at least say if the case is still active or if they've moved to cold case status as well.

 

[misty48]

What is the absolute latest possible time (relative to other events) that the critical event could have happened?

If there was human intervention, then the latest possible time would have been in the minutes before the group of 4 were all together at the campground after Search & Rescue arrived.
If there was no human intervention then the time is subject to speculation.

 

[bluesneakers]

I like the Leadore Four theory too! Everything seems to fit.

And if GGP was in charge - after watching his interviews I don't see him just going along with something. He seems like a take charge kind of guy - maybe that's when he gave everyone their orders.

Although.. then I don't know where DeOrr would be when they did. Unless they hid him somewhere until they decided what to do.