ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[desert-blue]

Here is a camper shell. It still doesn't change the fact that she said she slept underneath the pick-up, though. Perhaps that isn't what she meant but that is exactly what she said. The "bizarreness scale" of this case is off the charts.

ETA: Here is a more modern version:

 

[KatieLiz]

View attachment 103413

Here is a camper shell. It still doesn't change the fact that she said she slept underneath the pick-up, though. Perhaps that isn't what she meant but that is exactly what she said. The "bizarreness scale" of this case is off the charts.

ETA: Here is a more modern version:
View attachment 103414

Yes exactly. Doesn't change anything, just an odd anecdote for her to have made. Guess we have nothing new to discuss and may be reading a bit too far into it... but it still seems like a weird comment to me.

 

[desert-blue]

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT:

"Whoever, knowing that an offense has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists any offender in order to hinder or prevent his or her apprehension, trial or punishment, is called an accessory after the fact."


"An accessory after the fact is defined as follows: Access after the fact is a person who with knowledge of the other person['s] guilt gives assistance to a felon in an effort to hinder the felon['s] detection, arrest, trial or punishment."


SOURCE: http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/accessory-after-the-fact/


If/When the suspects are charged, I wonder if anyone else will face charges. It's difficult for me to believe that anyone could get away with this, for as long as they, have without some help. MOO.

 

[neesaki]

Here is a camper shell. It still doesn't change the fact that she said she slept underneath the pick-up, though. Perhaps that isn't what she meant but that is exactly what she said. The "bizarreness scale" of this case is off the charts.

ETA: Here is a more modern version:

Right on with the bizarreness scale. Here we have VDK who instead of questioning an alleged sighting of his "abducted" child with a man in a black truck says "but the thing is, I drive a black truck". Then there's GGP saying "what's done is done" as though he had just spilled his milk, I mean whiskey. And yet he won't just go ahead and say what it was that was done because it's too terrible. Then there's revolving last name J who has either a scowl on her face or is looking down at the ground while everyone around her does the talking about HER missing baby. Then there's grandma TBC who believes her daughter wanted to be free, and reminisces about earlier times when she slept underneath a truck with GGP. Then we have IR who was so smashed he doesn't remember anything about breakfast and slept half the day, yet claims Deorr was there, though his remembrance seems just a wee bit vague. Then no one on God's green earth in the whole area remembers seeing Deorr, except the store clerk who wasn't too sure but may have seen a little boy or girl... except that Deorr doesn't look like a girl.

Then last, but not least, "someone" just happens to show up in this same remote area, at the same time of the search, to do what? To empty human cremains into the reservoir. I mean, what are the odds? Hinky? Yes. Bizarre for sure... like a collaborative effort between the Brothers Grimm and Stephen King.

 

[desert-blue]

Off-topic, but I was just reading about the Montana father who was sentenced to just 60 days after multiple incidents of incest with his pre-teen daughter. The reason? The victim's mother and grandmother apparently wrote letters to the judge on his behalf begging for leniency because they didn't want him to go to jail and miss out on being a part of his children's lives, particularly his sons. Not one person spoke on behalf of the innocent victim. It just goes to show how dysfunctional families can be. It is unimaginable that grown adults would take the side of a criminal over an innocent child, their own flesh and blood. I don't get it. At all. (And the judge - that's a whole other topic).

http://flatheadbeacon.com/2016/10/16/judge-gave-suspended-sentence-incest-speaks/

 

[The Apparition]

Off-topic, but I was just reading about the Montana father who was sentenced to just 60 days after multiple incidents of incest with his pre-teen daughter. The reason? The victim's mother and grandmother apparently wrote letters to the judge on his behalf begging for leniency because they didn't want him to go to jail and miss out on being a part of his children's lives, particularly his sons. Not one person spoke on behalf of the innocent victim. It just goes to show how dysfunctional families can be. It is unimaginable that grown adults would take the side of a criminal over an innocent child, their own flesh and blood. I don't get it. At all. (And the judge - that's a whole other topic).

http://flatheadbeacon.com/2016/10/16/judge-gave-suspended-sentence-incest-speaks/

Wow what a sad world we live in. Hopefully his kids can break the cycle and not grow up to be pedophiles or enablers. I would be fine with the 60 day sentence if they chemically burned off his genitals but I don't think that is in the sentencing guidelines book, yet.

 

[misty48]

I never heard that story. Do you have a link?

There's a question about it on Klein's F/B page in the Q&A session he did. There's also another post from someone else saying the same thing in another section on the page. I cannot find the original source at present.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

There's a question about it on Klein's F/B page in the Q&A session he did. There's also another post from someone else saying the same thing in another section on the page. I cannot find the original source at present.

Photos or it didn't happen lol!

I have a very, very vague recollection of reading this but could be wrong (so many cases, so many black trucks...). But unfortunately without providing a credible source this is inadmissable in The Court Of Websleuths.

 

[neesaki]

I find it interesting that he and GGP were friends in the first place. But that it was. Now after this event in one interview GGP had not been around to visit for 6 months. Why did the friendship go south?

Maybe if they both had something to do with it they decided it was best to keep their distance from one another. I think the whole thing's weird, and think it's very possible they could all be guilty. I really hope the FBI is still involved with this case, though I find it strange Deorr isn't on their missing persons list. JMO

 

[misty48]

Maybe if they both had something to do with it they decided it was best to keep their distance from one another. I think the whole thing's weird, and think it's very possible they could all be guilty. I really hope the FBI is still involved with this case, though I find it strange Deorr isn't on their missing persons list. JMO

Is Isabel Celis's name on the FBI list?

 

[koios]

In the KIC Q and A session I can't find anything about the suburban overheating or anything about the dodge towing the camper.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...round-10-July-2015-19&p=12328788#post12328788
All sources I can find state that the suburban towed the camper.
B.T.W. the essential part of setting up this type of camper trailer (if I got the right model) on arrival at a campsite is telescoping it up to full height. Unhitching (and possibly deploying stabiliser feet) are not essential, and people sometimes skip those steps.

 

[misty48]

From:
https://www.facebook.com/KleinInves...1058867817529135&comment_tracking={"tn":"R9"}

Question:
July 26 11:16 pm
“Did GGP's suburban overheat on the way up to the campsite forcing VDK to pull/tow it?”

Klein’s answer:
July 27 2:10 am
“There was a trailer situation - depending on whose story you listen to.”

 

[TxJan1971]

It was reported that the engine in RW's truck overheated on the way to the campground & the trailer had to be hitched onto VDK's truck. The extra weight on the back would have resulted in considerably more diesel consumption than VDK had anticipated for the journey.

I never heard that story. Do you have a link?

There's a question about it on Klein's F/B page in the Q&A session he did. There's also another post from someone else saying the same thing in another section on the page. I cannot find the original source at present.

BBM
This “VDK pulling the Suburban” rumor was never reported by anyone credible such as LE and didn't come from any MSM source (to my knowledge). I’m almost certain that this originated in one of the many closed or private Facebook group(s) that we aren't allowed to discuss. However, this specific “towing the Suburban” rumor was asked and answered in one of Klein's Q & A's. Here is the specific question asked and Klein's "complete" response which, for me, actually calls into question whether or not it is to be believed (IMO).

Q: Did GGP's suburban overheat on the way up to the campsite forcing VDK to pull/tow it?
A: Klein Investigations and Consulting: There was a trailer situation - depending on whose story you listen to.


So we are left with, Which of the four do we believe? Which story? Keep in mind that the "Leadore Four" have been outed by the FBI (per SB), Bowerman, Vilt, and Klein as being "less than truthful." We have seen how none of the four’s public statements seem to match and the stories keep changing! Penner has stated the first thing you like to do is rule out anyone who was present at the time of the incident and that they (LE) were unable to do that, adding a question (for me) as to whether or not they can be believed! We know they have failed the two most critical poly questions, Do you know what happened to your son and Do you know where your son is? Also keep in mind that LE has never reported this “towing the Suburban” in MSM. None of the news reporters have mentioned it either including Nate E, Chelsea B, Nate S, etc. Most interesting is that none of the “Leadore Four,” TBC, or any other extended family members have ever mentioned this in any of their many interviews they have given over the last year and a half (link anyone?).

As for me, I'm classifying this as still unsubstantiated and have dumped it into my "Not Yet Proven to be Factual" bucket unless something comes up where it can be shown or stated otherwise by a credible source. JMO

ETA:
I also found several other statements on KIC page by various posters that stated "I heard...," but since they didn't come from Klein himself in the form of an answer to a question and the poster was merely relaying what they had heard, I didn't include the hearsay.

 

[misty48]

BBM
This “VDK pulling the Suburban” rumor was never reported by anyone credible such as LE and didn't come from any MSM source (to my knowledge). I’m almost certain that this originated in one of the many closed or private Facebook group(s) that we aren't allowed to discuss. However, this specific “towing the Suburban” rumor was asked and answered in one of Klein's Q & A's. Here is the specific question asked and Klein's "complete" response which, for me, actually calls into question whether or not it is to be believed (IMO).

Q: Did GGP's suburban overheat on the way up to the campsite forcing VDK to pull/tow it?
A: Klein Investigations and Consulting: There was a trailer situation - depending on whose story you listen to.


So we are left with, Which of the four do we believe? Which story? Keep in mind that the "Leadore Four" have been outed by the FBI (per SB), Bowerman, Vilt, and Klein as being "less than truthful." We have seen how none of the four’s public statements seem to match and the stories keep changing! Penner has stated the first thing you like to do is rule out anyone who was present at the time of the incident and that they (LE) were unable to do that, adding a question (for me) as to whether or not they can be believed! We know they have failed the two most critical poly questions, Do you know what happened to your son and Do you know where your son is? Also keep in mind that LE has never reported this “towing the Suburban” in MSM. None of the news reporters have mentioned it either including Nate E, Chelsea B, Nate S, etc. Most interesting is that none of the “Leadore Four,” TBC, or any other extended family members have ever mentioned this in any of their many interviews they have given over the last year and a half (link anyone?).

As for me, I'm classifying this as still unsubstantiated and have dumped it into my "Not Yet Proven to be Factual" bucket unless something comes up where it can be shown or stated otherwise by a credible source. JMO

Thank you for clarifying that there has been no official source for the alleged event (saves me a lot of time trying to find it). However, there was an issue with the trailer, which Klein confirmed. Again, to refer to statements as "stories" is unprofessional imo - the event either happened or it didn't but it would explain the need for additional fuel. Possibly it wasn't mentioned by MSM/LE publicly because it appears to have no relevance to events the following day. MSM didn't report that IR wasn't at home ready to go camping when the others turned up at his house - because it wasn't deemed relevant.

 

[koios]

Thanks Misty48 and TxJan1971. "A trailer situation" could mean many things.

 

[jessie]

In his interview Sheriff Bowerman says GGP's Suburban was pulling the camper and GGP was driving it ..............



January 28, 2016

True Crime Radio – I Heart Radio Network

Tricia Griffith (TG) with Guest: Sheriff Bowerman (SB)

RE: DEORR KUNZ JR CASE - Missing July 10, 2015, Timber Creek Campground, Leadore, ID



26:37
TG: Did the four adults arrive at the same time at the camping ground on Thursday? How many cars were used and what cars? Do you have …do you know the make and model of these cars?

26:48
SB: I know one was a Suburban and one was a pickup. The Suburban was pulling a camping trailer that was driven by Grandpa, and Isaac rode with Grandpa. The pickup truck belongs to Vernal—Vernal Deorr, and his wife & child rode with him, and those were the two vehicles at the scene and one camping trailer.

 

[The Apparition]

Thank you for clarifying that there has been no official source for the alleged event (saves me a lot of time trying to find it). However, there was an issue with the trailer, which Klein confirmed. Again, to refer to statements as "stories" is unprofessional imo - the event either happened or it didn't but it would explain the need for additional fuel. Possibly it wasn't mentioned by MSM/LE publicly because it appears to have no relevance to events the following day. MSM didn't report that IR wasn't at home ready to go camping when the others turned up at his house - because it wasn't deemed relevant.

<modsnip> You think referring to the suspects/poi's statements as stories is unprofessional, should Klein refer to them as stone cold lead pipe locks? I mean we have such a collection of accurate historians on our hands, who is this trumped up PI to question the veracity of the words of these pillars of society? They are stories because the suspects are story tellers. Literally nothing they say is to be believed since they are suspects in a presumed homicide, <modsnip> criminals often LIE.

 

[KatieLiz]

From:
https://www.facebook.com/KleinInves...1058867817529135&comment_tracking={"tn":"R9"}

Question:
July 26 11:16 pm
&#8220;Did GGP's suburban overheat on the way up to the campsite forcing VDK to pull/tow it?&#8221;

Klein&#8217;s answer:
July 27 2:10 am
&#8220;There was a trailer situation - depending on whose story you listen to.&#8221;

Misty, with all due respect, this is in NO WAY Klein saying that Vernal towed the trailer. If Klein or Bowerman have not come out to say Vernal towed the trailer and that is the reason for gas consumption, then it's a moot point.

Verbal was questioned about the gas money him and Jessica had stories to explain it but not once did either of them try to say they towed the trailer and that drained their fuel supply. So why do you feel the need to make up an alibi for them if they aren't even trying to use it? I'm VERY confused...

 

[KatieLiz]

<modsnip>
Klein in no way confirmed the trailer story-- he said basically that one of the stories told by someone has included some form of trailer issue. No where does he SAY Vernal Towed the trailer or even confirm that the trailer issue was real. For all we know only one person suggested a traiker issue and the thers denied it or didnt mention it at all. This is an unsubstantiated rumour.

 

[misty48]

Misty, with all due respect, this is in NO WAY Klein saying that Vernal towed the trailer. If Klein or Bowerman have not come out to say Vernal towed the trailer and that is the reason for gas consumption, then it's a moot point.

Verbal was questioned about the gas money him and Jessica had stories to explain it but not once did either of them try to say they towed the trailer and that drained their fuel supply. So why do you feel the need to make up an alibi for them if they aren't even trying to use it? I'm VERY confused...

Klein has acknowledged that there was a reported trailer issue. He didn't go into detail about the issue but had the question not been asked no-one would have been aware of the potential issue.
I offered that as a possible reason for the purchase of additional fuel not as an alibi for anything. Since nobody can come up with another explanation other than "everything they say is a lie & they must have travelled somewhere else" I can only let people decide for themselves whether my explanation is plausible, bearing in mind we have no idea of the entire contents of the statements made by the 4 adults to LE & Klein. As far as I can see, the issue has no relevance to the actual disappearance.