ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[KatieLiz]

How about this:
Doerr is in critical condition at home from being abused by his mother. Trina goes to work, and Jessica goes on the camping trip. Baby is alone for a few hours till Grandma comes home. When Trina gets home, Doerr is alone and dead.
Jessica doesn't realize the seriousness of the situation till she calls her mom and finds out Doerr is dead. Hence, the "Mommy knows best" call. Calming her down. Since she is responsible.
Trina gets rid of the body on the way to the campgrounds.
EVERYONE is protecting Jessica.

Whoa.... there's a new angle..

 

[desert-blue]

Why does 2:26 pm stick out in my mind? I would swear I've read that as the time of the 911 call. And LE arrived around 4:00 I thought? Hmm.. I can't remember where that came from but those two times are definitly sticking out to me. I haven't seen times for calls to Trina though. Presumably before 2:26...

2:28 was the official time stamp of Jessica's 911 call on the recording. Klein said two other 911 calls were made at 2:22 and 2:26.

 

[desert-blue]

I agree with you. I fully believe jessica called Trina several times, and then when they finally spoke she called 911. BUT I don't fully believe the details of J's conversation with TBC. I have a sneaking suspicion this was all part of the plan-- either making contact with TBC when it was time to finalize and follow through with the plan (if TBC is "in the know") OR the calls to TBC were part of V and J's plan in order to back up their story (if Trina isn't in on it).

I would love to know the time of each attempt J made to call. Did the calls start before J says Deorr vanished? Were they very frequent and close together? That would mean she had good reception and couldn't have been searching for Deorr deep in the bush.

So many questions.

I want a trial for many reasons, but a big reason is so that we can see their phone records. I've said since day 1 those will be what made their stories fall apart. If only we knew what LE knows.

BBM: I agree - the timing of these calls would be very interesting. I also think it would be interesting to know exactly what time Trina clocked out of work.

 

[PainExpress]

How about this:
Doerr is in critical condition at home from being abused by his mother. Trina goes to work, and Jessica goes on the camping trip. Baby is alone for a few hours till Grandma comes home. When Trina gets home, Doerr is alone and dead.
Jessica doesn't realize the seriousness of the situation till she calls her mom and finds out Doerr is dead. Hence, the "Mommy knows best" call. Calming her down. Since she is responsible.
Trina gets rid of the body on the way to the campgrounds.
EVERYONE is protecting Jessica.

I'd buy that but I don't get how they get IR involved?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

KatieLiz, that is partly what I'm saying. It could have been an act (God knows what Jessica's capable of), and it could've been to corroborate the story as well. I think this is the most likely scenario.

But, I'm also trying to throw something out there that I haven't seen mentioned. IMO I think it's very possible that something happened regarding Deorr and Jessica "lost her mind" and that it wasn't an act at that point in time. Also, it's a little fishy to me that she would behave that way to her mom (if it's even true) to emphasize her panic and believability, but not use that "drama" when she called 911. Am I making sense here?

Here's one of my theories (and possibly the theory of others). The man with the dirty bawling baby was actually on Thursday night, maybe it really was VDK. He went there with Deorr to meet up with someone for very unspeakable, nefarious purposes. Deorr wasn't supposed to die. Which could explain Nolastname J's hysteria with her mother, also why she didn't call 911 first. Remember the candy, which is one way pedophiles / rings get children to cooperate. JMO

 

[neesaki]

I'd buy that but I don't get how they get IR involved?

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Maybe he was the one with the connections. Thus, the factory reset on his phone. He's a chronic criminal, thus IMO, a pathological liar and can't be believed or trusted. JMO

 

[neesaki]

I'm having heck with my ipad and pop up ads that totally takeover websleuths. Does anyone know what I can do ? TIA

 

[KatieLiz]

2:28 was the official time stamp of Jessica's 911 call on the recording. Klein said two other 911 calls were made at 2:22 and 2:26.

There we go. Thank you. I knew I had seen that time before!

 

[KatieLiz]

I'd buy that but I don't get how they get IR involved?

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Maybe to have a witness not in the immediate family. Someone they could get drunk and trick into believing Deorr was there. Maybe?

 

[koios]

They weren't using their sight, they were using this technology: http://www.flir.com/home/

http://mashable.com/2015/06/25/flir-one-second-generation-review/#up5e.QVuGkqq

Even Vernal was impressed.

The moment I heard V say that I thought, hang on, FLIR can't see through tree canopy. This is confirmed by the bold text which is a quote from a top expert at a leading FLIR manufacturer.
"a $225,000 infrared-camera system mounted in a Seminole County helicopter was no match for 11-year-old Nadia Bloom, who spent four nights in a swamp near her Winter Springs home. In fact, the inability to find Nadia in the wooded area — even in the middle of the night when she was the only person there"
"There is nothing presently available that would have allowed the infrared system to see through the tree canopy."
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...18_1_infrared-system-flir-systems-helicopters

 

[Elle*Bee]

I'm having heck with my ipad and pop up ads that totally takeover websleuths. Does anyone know what I can do ? TIA

What kind of pop ups? Are they "Congratulations! Your iPad has been selected..." Or an offer to choose a prize (Walmart gift card, etc.). I was getting those last week until I went to Settings > Safari > Clear a History & Website Data.

Unfortunately that closed all of my open Websleuths tabs, but the pop ups haven't returned.

 

[Hoosier952]

We know J?? called TBC multiple times (I really want to know when those calls started, but I would put money on more than 1 hour prior to the 911 call). I'd love to know if she called anyone else. It also seems as though she was the last person to call 911 from camp. I think if it was two dropped calls from her, that would have been stated in one of the interviews by someone.

We also know VDK called 911 (which means it was prior to J?? calling 911) and called someone(s) else. I'd love to know if someone called him as well.

We've talked a lot about all of J?'s calls to TBC, but who was VK calling? TBC or someone else? Maybe he did drive up the road to call someone so J? wouldn't hear him talk.

I think 1/2 of the suspects didn't want to call 911 or 1/2 wanted to spill the beans.

I don't know why, but I still the J? is the reason Deorr is gone. I have from the very beginning. VDK seems like the jealous, possessive, possibly heated type, but J? just seems like a stone hearted winch who cares about no one but herself and knows she has a bunch of people that have done nothing but cover her ace time after time.

But I'm also digging charminglane's theory and it pretty much ticks all of the boxes.

 

[neesaki]

What kind of pop ups? Are they "Congratulations! Your iPad has been selected..." Or an offer to choose a prize (Walmart gift card, etc.). I was getting those last week until I went to Settings > Safari > Clear a History & Website Data.

Unfortunately that closed all of my open Websleuths tabs, but the pop ups haven't returned.

Yes, and I did all that. And they're back again! :gaah: But thanks anyway! :wave: Anyone with any other solutions, would be much appreciated. TIA ((hugs)) and Thanks!

 

[neesaki]

Anyway, I'm sure some here believe I'm a total nut. I apologize if I come across as being a little over the edge, so to speak. But I just have to go with my gut instinct, and I am totally cognitive that gut instinct is sometimes, well, often times, not accurate. That said, I still have a bad feeling about the / pedo thing. Something just isn't right there. Am I the only one that senses that ? I would appreciate any feedback. And, I respect everyone's opinion here, so, feel free. I would really appreciate hearing any feedback and dialogue on this issue. It's a serious one, as we have a baby boy who is missing, and some serious issues with the four people involved. And, I personally believe it's more than just a missing boy who wondered away into the woods and got lost and never found. JMHO

 

[charminglane]

Neesaki-
I've had the feeling Doerr was sexually abused for profit.
IR was probably needed to watch over Grandpa because Jessica had other things that needed taking care of.
Get him drunk and pretend he interacted with Doerr. He wouldn't remember. Or, he might like young children. Yuck.
I don't know.
I believe everyone is protecting Jessica. Vernal wanted/wants her back, Mom and Grandpa protection of family, and IR protecting Grandpa.

 

[The Apparition]

Warning: my answer sucks!

I don't have a strong enough read on the facts and people to have a very firm opinion. This is certainly not for want of trying, the main players are all shotgun liars and TBC also seems full it. The police rightly are not sharing much so we are all left chasing our tails.

Bearing this in mind I feel that Occam's razor should be applied to any guess work. I think something like a drunk truck accident happened. Why it has been covered up requires another guess but I'd go with possible signs of drugging (finish your sippy cup of Benadryl, I mean punch little man) or perhaps physical injuries above and beyond getting mowed over by a truck. I feel confident that both Vernal and Jessica felt they would both be prosecuted for what happened so the story began.

Issac seems like a troubled person, certainly not the kind of guy you want to be alone in the woods with, but I still think he is only along for the ride. I picture him stupid drunk and partying in the woods not really involved in a child murder.

GGP basically gets an incomplete from me because he's been shielded and rarely heard from. What I have seen and heard from him he seems like he knows Deorr is dead and isn't terribly broken up about it. Guessing (again) I assume he doesn't want to see his Granddaughter imprisoned so he'll just keep quiet and live out his days watching Nascar on his couch drinking tall boy's.

In closing certainly not trying to shut down anyone else's theory. I have no problem with people thinking it might be some kind of sex crime, the cast of characters seem capable of all kinds of evil. I don't feel like I've gotten it all figured out or anything, the only thing that would truly shock me is if Vernal and Jessica were some how not directly involved in the death of their child.

 

[haven71]

Yep you're totally making sense.

But the only scenario I can envision to make what you suggest possible would be if Deorr genuinely vanished and the 4 adults are genuinely innocent. Do you see another scenario that something could've "just" happened to Deorr right before the 911 call? Because if he had "just" died then and they were freaking out trying to cover it I don't see them having enough time if they called 911 right taster Trina. He hasn't been found for 15 months. If they did this to him they needed a lot longer than an hour to clean it up and hide him well. That's why I can't see that scenario being plausible unless he really did vanish into thin air.

If you have another scenario in mind please let me know so I can jump on board

I see what you're saying. It is unlikely but not altogether impossible IMO. I'm thinking more that Jessica *could* have just LEARNED about Deorr's fate when she became hysterical. Maybe she figured out or was told he was dead and that's what set her off. Maybe she had hurt Deorr, and he didn't "make it". To be clear, I think Jessica is very guilty in this, but I am puzzled that she would be so incoherent on the phone, on purpose or not, and then be so indifferent sounding on the 911 call. And if her hysteria were to convince TBC that Deorr had just vanished, why wouldn't she use that same hysteria to render her more believable to LE?

My strongest theory is he was never at the campground, and in a way, that's the saddest theory. Because it makes finding Deorr a needle in a haystack, and if he was found, so much time would've passed that COD and other details may be impossible to ascertain. Therefore, thwarting proper justice.

 

[jessie]

I see what you're saying. It is unlikely but not altogether impossible IMO. I'm thinking more that Jessica *could* have just LEARNED about Deorr's fate when she became hysterical. Maybe she figured out or was told he was dead and that's what set her off. Maybe she had hurt Deorr, and he didn't "make it". To be clear, I think Jessica is very guilty in this, but I am puzzled that she would be so incoherent on the phone, on purpose or not, and then be so indifferent sounding on the 911 call. And if her hysteria were to convince TBC that Deorr had just vanished, why wouldn't she use that same hysteria to render her more believable to LE?

RSBM



My bolded. We really have no idea if Jessica was hysterical when she spoke to TBC though do we ? It's what TBC tells us, but where's the evidence ?
She could, possibly, have been angry that TBC wasn't picking up and let rip when they finally spoke. I just think if J was so hysterical about Deorr missing then why didn't she leave a message for TBC as it was urgent. OMOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

How about this:
Doerr is in critical condition at home from being abused by his mother. Trina goes to work, and Jessica goes on the camping trip. Baby is alone for a few hours till Grandma comes home. When Trina gets home, Doerr is alone and dead.
Jessica doesn't realize the seriousness of the situation till she calls her mom and finds out Doerr is dead. Hence, the "Mommy knows best" call. Calming her down. Since she is responsible.
Trina gets rid of the body on the way to the campgrounds.
EVERYONE is protecting Jessica.

Your last sentence: :thumb:

 

[The Apparition]

RSBM



My bolded. We really have no idea if Jessica was hysterical when she spoke to TBC though do we ? It's what TBC tells us, but where's the evidence ?
She could, possibly, have been angry that TBC wasn't picking up and let rip when they finally spoke. I just think if J was so hysterical about Deorr missing then why didn't she leave a message for TBC as it was urgent. OMOO

Yes!

I am DONE believing anything the family tells us, as at this point it all comes across as alibi building. I am sure they have told us some truth but picking it out from the 90% lies is impossible. The few truths they have shared are either self serving or of no relevance to what has happened, as to be expected when getting information from suspects in a crime.

Now that the heat seems to have dissipated I want to see what the family does next in their tireless quest to find baby Deorr. If the best they could muster was 2 half hearted fall searches, and a candle lighting while the heat was on, I can only imagine how hard they will be looking now. Perhaps Jessica and TBC should go on vacation to Hawaii, to you know spread awareness of little man and honor his memory by drinking tropical drinks (he would want them relax after so much hard work).