ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #29

[koios]

Can you show an example where two parents truly believed the child was with the other adult, AND the stories changed more than say, two times? Because IIRC the story has changed 4-5 times in the Deorr case. If you could do that, I would jump on your bandwagon. If that were truly the case, and the parents thought the kid was with another adult THERE WOULD BE NO REASON to have changing stories. None whatsoever. And don't bring up adding details, that is to be expected. I am talking about totally changing stories. Because at first, Grandpa saw him walk towards the parents. Then he went in his camper, and when he came out, Deorr was gone. Then, Deorr did follow the parents. I don't even know where we are now with what story "du jour".

Using the numerous released KIC videos and/or press videos, can anyone post even one example, of a fact said in an early statement being changed in a later statement by the same person?

 

[DatelineFan]

Still catching up... Also, just a warning that I'm recovering from a root canal and posting on pain medication. Hopefully this makes sense!

I want to address the child idea. First of all, I agree with Appararition, that Occam's Razor would tell us it was something more like an "accident". I use the word lightly, because I think there was an accident, in the sense that Deorr wasn't meant to die, but there are likely nefarious acts involved. Drinking, abuse, etc. Anyway, from what (very little) I know about child , is that to run a ring and be walking free, at least one of those involved, would have to be quite brilliant and sophisticated with their "operation".

I haven't seen any evidence of much intelligence at all out of these people. I think they have simply gotten "lucky". I think it would be close to impossible to even possess some child , let alone produce it, and be under investigation without it being discovered by LE in 15 months. I have no doubt these people are evil, and capable of awful things, but I just don't think they could even have a tiny bit of involvement with that stuff, without being caught by now. I also don't believe LE would find evidence of child (ugh, I hate typing about this), and keep it under wraps until they have more evidence about Deorr. Law enforcement does not mess around when it comes this stuff. I think one yucky photo, and these idiots would be in jail.

 

[DatelineFan]

Using the numerous released KIC videos and/or press videos, can anyone post even one example, of a fact said in an early statement being changed in a later statement by the same person?

Is this a serious question? The threads are full of them. Someone just listed a few in the last couple of pages.

I think it would be more difficult to pick out anything that hasn't changed in their stories, other than that Deorr is missing.

 

[Little Ol Me]

Using the numerous released KIC videos and/or press videos, can anyone post even one example, of a fact said in an early statement being changed in a later statement by the same person?

Thought provoking question. While one may exist, I can't think of one

 

[neesaki]

Using the numerous released KIC videos and/or press videos, can anyone post even one example, of a fact said in an early statement being changed in a later statement by the same person?

IIRC, V and J said they left Deorr with GGP and went to the creek with IR. IR said that he and J went down, that he thought V and Deorr were following a ways behind him, but looked back and didn't see them coming , they had lagged behind. I guess this isn't what you meant by "the same person" though.

 

[koios]

Is this a serious question? The threads are full of them. Someone just listed a few in the last couple of pages.

I think it would be more difficult to pick out anything that hasn't changed in their stories, other than that Deorr is missing.

But can anyone post a video in which one of the adults says "x happened" and a later video in which that same adult says "x did not happen"?

 

[koios]

IIRC, V and J said they left Deorr with GGP and went to the creek with IR. IR said that he and J went down, that he thought V and Deorr were following a ways behind him, but looked back and didn't see them coming , they had lagged behind. I guess this isn't what you meant by "the same person" though.

Those are good examples of apparent discrepancies between the statements of different individuals, but they are not examples of changes between statements by the same individual.

 

[Cardinal47]

But can anyone post a video in which one of the adults says "x happened" and a later video in which that same adult says "x did not happen"?

Klein has several. You can go over to his FB page. You will need to do your own research.

 

[desert-blue]

But can anyone post a video in which one of the adults says "x happened" and a later video in which that same adult says "x did not happen"?

If Vernal and Jessica were together the whole time, their stories about what happened that day should be very similar and they're not. Their baby is missing - that's no time for being ambiguous or intentionally vague. Yet, three days after DeOrr disappeared, when Nate asked them to start at the beginning, they failed to mention they had already been camping all night the day before DeOrr disappeared! Wouldn't that be something you'd think to mention to the public, especially when in the SAME exact interview they were suggesting somebody may have kidnapped him???? Hello - if you think a stranger zeroed in on your child and stole him, wouldn't it be crucial to present an accurate time line of your movements and activities prior to said kidnapping? Or would you omit your time of arrival, your stop(s) to get diesel, your stop at the Silver Dollar, etc.? Why would anyone do that when given a chance to let the public know what's going on and how to help find your child???? It's mind-boggling.

 

[TxJan1971]

BOWERMAN
"They're not able to tell the same story twice because they've told so many stories, you know, getting changes in the story all the time," he said.
http://legacy.ktvb.com/story/news/c...parents-suspects-his-disappearance/79301014/\

So far we have this coming from Bowerman as a direct quote and confirmed by Klein. We also have Vilt publicly announcing that they are liars/lied to him. It was previously stated by Bowerman that Bonneville and FBI both both felt the parents were lying about what happened and where the baby was, so it would be interesting to know whether they, too, feel the parents and GGP have changed their stories. We have heard that Isaac's story was the most consistent, which would lead me to believe that if his story was "consistent" - the other three's stories had to have been "inconsistent." Time will tell if/when this ever gets to trial.

 

[koios]

I knew nothing about polygraphs until looking at this case, but since then I have studied them a little.
In my opinion something like "are you going to tell us the truth in this interview?" is not a "control" question, it is a non-control question.

 

[TxJan1971]

Nate talks to Bowerman about VDK/JMA:

Sheriff Lynn Bowerman, Lemhi County:
"They (VDK/JMA) were the top persons of interest, but I believe they are suspects. (The decision was reached) after an extensive week of interviewing, re-interviewing and an announcement from the FBI that they were being less than truthful on their polygraphs. Plus there are a lot of irregularities and discrepancies in their interviews (so) I felt it was necessary to come forward and say the parents are being less than truthful.

and

Bowerman: Our timeline has constantly changed. A lot of small facts – things that should be important to them, important in their memory – have changed. From who made the decision to do what or who cooked that morning or who took a fishing pole down to the creek – just minor changes like that constantly changing.

and

Bowerman re: IR

Stephan Rockefeller, EastIdahoNews.com producer: When we spoke with Isaac, he said DeOrr was up there. Has his communication with you guys been questioned?

Bowerman: He’s (IR) probably been more consistent on his story from the very beginning. We haven’t seen any of the big discrepancies with him.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

 

[TxJan1971]

Bowerman:
“Their statements don’t match, and it’s frustrating because we have absolutely no idea where DeOrr is,” Bowerman says. “There have been so many inconsistencies that it’s hard to tell the truth from everything they’ve said.”
We don’t want charge them too early should we find DeOrr and things change

Bowerman is “100 percent” positive the child was not abducted

http://fox4kc.com/2016/01/25/missing-boy-deorr-kunz-jr-s-parents-named-as-suspects-in-disappearance/

 

[katydid23]

He did not watch the child heading for a steep bank. He noticed the child was no longer at the campsite and assumed the child was with the parents. It's a mistake, but an easy one to make, made by many other adults in other cases.

That's not what GGP FIRST said. His initial story was that he saw the baby toddling towards the embankment, and GGP looked away. When he looked back he was gone. So he thought he had gone to find his parents.

 

[koios]

If Vernal and Jessica were together the whole time, their stories about what happened that day should be very similar and they're not. Their baby is missing - that's no time for being ambiguous or intentionally vague. Yet, three days after DeOrr disappeared, when Nate asked them to start at the beginning, they failed to mention they had already been camping all night the day before DeOrr disappeared! Wouldn't that be something you'd think to mention to the public, especially when in the SAME exact interview they were suggesting somebody may have kidnapped him???? Hello - if you think a stranger zeroed in on your child and stole him, wouldn't it be crucial to present an accurate time line of your movements and activities prior to said kidnapping? Or would you omit your time of arrival, your stop(s) to get diesel, your stop at the Silver Dollar, etc.? Why would anyone do that when given a chance to let the public know what's going on and how to help find your child???? It's mind-boggling.

Those two individuals were not together the whole time. But in the periods they were together, if you decide that their statements directly contradict each other on some particular point, the logical conclusion from that would be that one of those individuals is telling the truth about the contradicted point. I will answer your other question after rewatching that video.

 

[KatieLiz]

Idk.

1000 posters have changed their minds here 1000 times. So you can't hold Mistys feet to the fire. Jmo.

But she made these two comments back to back.

 

[TxJan1971]

He did not watch the child heading for a steep bank. He noticed the child was no longer at the campsite and assumed the child was with the parents. It's a mistake, but an easy one to make, made by many other adults in other cases.

That's not what GGP FIRST said. His initial story was that he saw the baby toddling towards the embankment, and GGP looked away. When he looked back he was gone. So he thought he had gone to find his parents.

Well, if we want to remain factual, it appears to me we are "assuming" what GGP actually said. Bolded above is hearsay since it never came from GGP's mouth (unless I missed his one and only MSM interview!) Anything that has been reported or stated by Bowerman, Klein, Vilt, VDK, JMA, TBC is all hearsay. Since JMA, VDK and TBC have not been able to pass their polygraphs, then what makes us think that any of the "alleged" GGP statements are truthful?

The only GGP statement that exists that I can recall is the snippet that Klein has released - the one where GGP flat out denied JMA's statement that she made that GGP last saw the baby under a tree by the bank playing with his shoes or boots. GGP denied he ever told her that, therefore someone is lying.

As of 15 months after the "incident," GGP's actual statements are unknown and therefore hearsay, IMOO. If someone can point me to any direct quotes or interviews or statements by GGP himself, please share because I am truly unaware that they exist!! TIA.

 

[TxJan1971]

Those two individuals were not together the whole time. But in the periods they were together, if you decide that their statements directly contradict each other on some particular point, the logical conclusion from that would be that one of those individuals is telling the truth about the contradicted point. I will answer your other question after rewatching that video.

BBM
You stated they were not together the whole time yet one of the top two suspects in the disappearance of her son, JMA, actually stated otherwise. Should we go with what she stated or what you stated?

JMA: Yeah! I…I believe in both our innocence because he was with me that whole time. He…the longest he was out of my sight was when he went up the embankment to go get our son, so…and that was maybe five minutes.
http://m.localnews8.com/news/newsline-special-search-for-deorr-kunz-one-year-later/40453144

 

[koios]

That's not what GGP FIRST said. His initial story was that he saw the baby toddling towards the embankment, and GGP looked away. When he looked back he was gone. So he thought he had gone to find his parents.

I don't recall GGP saying "toddling towards the embankment", but maybe I missed the source?

 

[KatieLiz]

I'm confused which narrative are we using? I remember when Jessica did her interview with Klein (closed eye version) she said GGP was watching Deorr. Surely GGP didn't just let Deorr wander off, are you using the original version where both parents took off and kinda sorta just figured the old enfeebled man was going to watch the toddler for this narrative? Personally I like that version better because what parent hasn't left a 2 year old in the woods, near a stream, a reservoir, and possible wild animals, without clearly putting a plan in place? Just the other day I left my 4 year old alone in Grand Central Station while I went off and bought some Hot Sam pretzels (oh man they were so good) I figured the elderly lady in the wheelchair would watch my kid because we exchanged a knowing glance when I walked off.

Hahahahahaha

But in all seriousness, I agree. Jessicas latest storyline says Deorr was sitting on the ridge and GGP was watching him play with dirt or his "shoes" and he suddenly vanished. He certainly hadn't follow J and V in THAT version of eventsm