ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #31

[UrsulaWrenn]

I'm confident LE has a lot of evidence that Jessica and Vernal disapeared little Deorr and are responsible for his death. But they have to have the right evidence to convict. Apparently Prosecution doesn't feel they are there yet.

I agree they need the right evidence. I don't (yet?) share your conviction the parents are responsible for his death. The best I can muster is agreeing they were probably somewhat negligent allowing the child to return to camp alone -and I say "somewhat" because I'm not certain how far away they were, or whether Grandpa really understood he was expected to be taking care of him.

 

[katydid23]

Wasn’t the grandfather not in good health? He was on oxygen from what I remember, although I was surprised they had a campfire with oxygen nearby.

That whole thing really bothers me. My mom is on oxygen. She can never be anywhere near an open flame. I cannot imagine her sitting near a campfire with her oxygen on.

But besides all that, who leaves an active, impulsive toddler at a campfire in the woods, with an elderly, confused great grandfather on oxygen? The mom and Dad are going to walk to a creek to look for a good place to fish, and they leave their little boy behind with an old man who cannot keep up with him if he decided to run off? None of that makes any sense to me.

We did a lot of camping when our kids were little. Often our parents were there. They were younger than Grandpa, but even then, I wouldn't leave my 3 yr old alone with my parents while he was awake, because I knew they couldn't catch him if he took off running.

 

[ReadySet]

If little Deorr was even at the camp ( some think he was not,) I'm not sure; who leaves a 2 year old even for a second near a creek? Bad parents, that's who. Even one of the parents, I don't remember which one, remarked on how close the creek was. He was a baby.

I agree they need the right evidence. I don't (yet?) share your conviction the parents are responsible for his death. The best I can muster is agreeing they were probably somewhat negligent allowing the child to return to camp alone -and I say "somewhat" because I'm not certain how far away they were, or whether Grandpa really understood he was expected to be taking care of him.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

That whole thing really bothers me. My mom is on oxygen. She can never be anywhere near an open flame. I cannot imagine her sitting near a campfire with her oxygen on.

That bothers me, too.

The best I can do -maybe I'm playing Devil's advocate here a bit- is to surmise he was only on oxygen now and then, and kept the apparatus away from the fire.

I suspect he was drinking the whiskey IR said he brought to camp. I suspect they all were; but I think Grandpa went camping for the purpose of getting drunk, and having the other people along was putting a crimp on the plan. Further, I suspect he saw the baby follow the parents, and immediately ran to get his bottle so he could set about doing what he was there to do.

 

[ReadySet]

Here's my problem with that theory: Then what? So grandpa wasn't paying attention. Then what happened?
Drowning? Very likely, but he would have been recovered.
Abduction? Who? When? No.
So what happened?

That bothers me, too.

The best I can do -maybe I'm playing Devil's advocate here a bit- is to surmise he was only on oxygen now and then, and kept the apparatus away from the fire.

I suspect he was drinking the whiskey IR said he brought to camp. I suspect they all were; but I think Grandpa went camping for the purpose of getting drunk, and having the other people along was putting a crimp on the plan. Further, I suspect he saw the baby follow the parents, and immediately ran to get his bottle so he could set about doing what he was there to do.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Here's my problem with that theory: Then what? So grandpa wasn't paying attention. Then what happened?
Drowning? Very likely, but he would have been recovered.
Abduction? Who? When? No.
So what happened?

I don't have time to post much right now, but I'm not certain the abduction theory has been ruled out well enough. I know the LEOs said they thought it was the least likely because they were all such a long drive from town (who would drive all the way out here to grab a kid?) but I think if he was abducted it was more likely a crime of opportunity by someone already in the area.

My own life experience tells me there are far, far more people living in places like that campground then most would ever suspect. A lot of them live just like animals, and are just as hard to spot -and some of them do it because they had to leave society due to their vicious and wrongful behaviors.

I just think that possibility needs another long, hard look.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Also:
“Trina Bates Clegg : "My father is 76 and on oxygen 24 hours and not in good health. “

I suspect that's a bit of hyperbole. I don't think he was on oxygen literally 24 hours, as he would not have been able to leave the house, really. Even if he pulled a bottle along on a cart, he wouldn't have been able to do much of anything, and his grandkids wouldn't have been able to do much of anything for him if something went wrong.

I think he had a portable unit, and while he might've needed to have it with him 'round the clock, I think he only needed to use it sporadically.

 

[katydid23]

Also:
“Trina Bates Clegg : "My father is 76 and on oxygen 24 hours and not in good health. “

I suspect that's a bit of hyperbole. I don't think he was on oxygen literally 24 hours, as he would not have been able to leave the house, really. Even if he pulled a bottle along on a cart, he wouldn't have been able to do much of anything, and his grandkids wouldn't have been able to do much of anything for him if something went wrong.

I think he had a portable unit, and while he might've needed to have it with him 'round the clock, I think he only needed to use it sporadically.

That's not true that he wouldn't be able to leave the house. My mother goes away for the weekend with her portable oxygen. It has chargeable batteries and extra canisters to be replaced when needed.

The portable ones are easy and you can put them on a walker to carry them about. But even if it was used sporadically, was he someone that could keep up with a busy 2 and a half yr old boy?

I doubt it. And I don't understand why 2 healthy, active parents would leave a toddler alone with a 76 yr old with health issues and an inability to communicate. Did you see any of his interviews?

He was not very perceptive or 'with it' anymore. And to watch a 2 yr old you need to have your wits about you. Especially if you are in the woods by a moving creek. There's no way he would have been able prevent Lil DeOrr from running off.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

I don't understand why 2 healthy, active parents would leave a toddler alone with a 76 yr old with health issues and an inability to communicate. Did you see any of his interviews?

Yes. While I realize the whole situation had to be very stressful for him, and sometimes people don't present themselves very well in front of the camera, if that's his normal state of being I think the parents should be charged with negligence for leaving the baby with him. I realize they thought they would only be a few minutes, but they had to know that anything -literally anything- can happen to a small child in a few minutes, and that Grandpa simply wasn't up to the task of having to face any kind of serious mishap.

ETA: I do need to reiterate though that every parent makes mistakes, and hindsight is 20/20. It's very possible they really didn't realize just how little Grandpa was really capable of, and he might have repeatedly assured them he had the situation under control and that everything would be fine.

 

[cisabella28]

Yes. While I realize the whole situation had to be very stressful for him, and sometimes people don't present themselves very well in front of the camera, if that's his normal state of being I think the parents should be charged with negligence for leaving the baby with him. I realize they thought they would only be a few minutes, but they had to know that anything -literally anything- can happen to a small child in a few minutes, and that Grandpa simply wasn't up to the task of having to face any kind of serious mishap.

ETA: I do need to reiterate though that every parent makes mistakes, and hindsight is 20/20. It's very possible they really didn't realize just how little Grandpa was really capable of, and he might have repeatedly assured them he had the situation under control and that everything would be fine.

While I agree with you, I do think that it needs to be mentioned again that Jessica was working as his caregiver. IMO it’s very strange that someone would leave their child with the person that they’re tasked with taking care of.

 

[ReadySet]

bbm

There are a lot of criminals living in places like this? Unknown by LE? Undetected by the community, other campers, hikers, hunters? Respectfully, I don't think so.

This is supposed to be a drone view of the area by East Idaho News but having trouble linking it.

I don't have time to post much right now, but I'm not certain the abduction theory has been ruled out well enough. I know the LEOs said they thought it was the least likely because they were all such a long drive from town (who would drive all the way out here to grab a kid?) but I think if he was abducted it was more likely a crime of opportunity by someone already in the area.

My own life experience tells me there are far, far more people living in places like that campground then most would ever suspect. A lot of them live just like animals, and are just as hard to spot -and some of them do it because they had to leave society due to their vicious and wrongful behaviors.

I just think that possibility needs another long, hard look.

 

[155etta]

Nate Eaton - Reporter


DeOrr Kunz went camping five years ago today and disappeared. It's hard to believe it's been that long. We'll have a full story later with the latest on the investigation - but here's the very first interview his parents did less than 72 hours after their 2-year-old vanished.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=274463090295342

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I'd love to know what Nate Eaton thinks happened. He must have so much inside info.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

bbm

There are a lot of criminals living in places like this? Unknown by LE? Undetected by the community, other campers, hikers, hunters? Respectfully, I don't think so.

This is supposed to be a drone view of the area by East Idaho News but having trouble linking it.

I'm sorry; I didn't mean to imply the wilderness is just crawling with criminals or anything.

I just believe the chances the baby was abducted might be a bit higher than the LEs might've realized.

A quick Google search turns up a small number of links:

Rewild.com

Camping limit aims to reduce squatters in national forest

Homeless Are Flocking to America's Forests, But It's Damaging the Land

If most of us go camping the way we traditionally think of: find a nice spot where camping is allowed, start a fire, pitch a tent, enjoy...we might never even know there's another person just a mile away. But it adds a level of complexity when someone goes missing in a campground or national park because we tend to assume there are no other people out there.

 

[ReadySet]

“We did a K9 deployment on June 4 in the area of Timber Creek Campground,” Penner tells EastIdahoNews.com. “We are waiting for environmental conditions to change and there will be some follow-up as a result of that.”

“It’s hard to believe it’s been five years. It still feels fairly fresh to me. I’m not sure why that is. It doesn’t seem that long,” Penner says.

DeOrr Kunz vanished 5 years ago today. Here's where the investigation stands. | East Idaho News

 

[ReadySet]

No.
JMO

I'm sorry; I didn't mean to imply the wilderness is just crawling with criminals or anything.

I just believe the chances the baby was abducted might be a bit higher than the LEs might've realized.

A quick Google search turns up a small number of links:

Rewild.com

Camping limit aims to reduce squatters in national forest

Homeless Are Flocking to America's Forests, But It's Damaging the Land

If most of us go camping the way we traditionally think of: find a nice spot where camping is allowed, start a fire, pitch a tent, enjoy...we might never even know there's another person just a mile away. But it adds a level of complexity when someone goes missing in a campground or national park because we tend to assume there are no other people out there.

 

[Arnie M]

Abduction is problematic. Grandpa & the boy at the campsite .... Issac has wandered in one direction to try fishing .... parents wander in another direction and explore creek .... the child would still have to wander away in order to be snatched by a stranger.

Not to mention the perfect timing of the kidnapper to be lurking at the edge of the forest at that very moment

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Abduction is problematic. Grandpa & the boy at the campsite .... Issac has wandered in one direction to try fishing .... parents wander in another direction and explore creek .... the child would still have to wander away in order to be snatched by a stranger.

Not to mention the perfect timing of the kidnapper to be lurking at the edge of the forest at that very moment

I realize it's not very likely, but I think the chance is above zero. I'm not sure how much work LE did to really rule it out altogether.

 

[ReadySet]

Well, anything's "possible." But it is one of the more highly improbable theories. Jessica and Vernal don't even think it was an abduction. One example: Vernal had/has a tricked out van that he showcased on a youtube video, very proud of it. No poster, no sign, no picture, no words to indicate he had a missing son.

Video from Jan. 2019. On camera with a chance to talk about his missing son! Not a word!

I realize it's not very likely, but I think the chance is above zero. I'm not sure how much work LE did to really rule it out altogether.

 

[155etta]

Nate Eaton - Reporter
Four years ago, I produced this in-depth story about the disappearance of DeOrr Kunz. Several of you are not familiar with the case and have asked for an explanation. While some things have changed since we

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=898408507323098