ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[babyback]

I plan on asking a couple. If I get a super-friendly vibe I might direct them here. I won't post anything without permission from the people who run this show & am hoping that there may be some sort of future interview situation that these questions might be helpful in! Thanks!

Well, I was attempting to be helpful, but I'm new here, so Breezeneeze, those are all the questions that people have had. I'm going to run them by Bessie, I may be in deep doodoo. LOL

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Boise is the capital and Idaho isn't a very big state people-wise. I'm surprised at the lack of news coverage as well. Honestly, two year olds don't go missing here all that often. Boise news generally covers big stories from all around the state. Right now, for example, there are numerous fires burning in Idaho and the news doesn't just focus on the one closest to Boise, but on all the fires. I do find the lack of coverage on Deorr a little odd. However, it seems like there is little to add. There is never any new information released so it would basically just be repetitive, I suppose....

It's pretty difficult to cover this story. Neither LE or the parents are talking to the media. Neither is really promoting the abduction theory. The media isn't about to start investigating the parents as the possible culprits, if they aren't putting themselves out there, and LE isn't calling them suspects. So you can't really sell either "Parents did it!" or "Abducted child" to the public. All that's left is a child who is lost in the woods, and died of exposure, drowning, or an animal attack, a tragic accident.

 

[TeaTime]

Yes, I think they got there Thursday night. I do not know that the parents left this information out of anything. <modsnip> The PI said "they went to the store the morning after they got there" - not a direct quote but close. I won't twist his words; he was clear. <modsnip> I am taking it all in and believe that they arrived Thursday night. I do not think it matters at all which day/night they arrived but, if you want my conclusion - they arrived Thursday night.

I also think that as this trip was planned in advance, it was not some sort of set-up to have lame witnesses to the parents disappearing their own child. Really, who thinks "let's get XX and YY to meet us camping next week, they will make lousy witnesses and then we can kill the love of our lives, hide his body and cry 'missing"? Yes, I know there are truly horrible people out there, but these parents do not strike me as scheming deviants.

I do not think the parents were involved at all. I believe this was an abduction and will continue to believe it until proven otherwise.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Idaho has a population of about 1 million. We are considered a rural state with a small population given our size, but Idaho Falls, which is 4 hours away is really pretty close considering all the empty land between the cities. Statewide missing children, murders, deaths, etc. that happen in Idaho usually are covered by the Boise news. It could just be that there really is NO news to report on. Still, I'd sure like to see an investigative reporter get a hold of this story.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Could it be because Boise is almost 5 hours away, and they don't consider it local news? Perhaps I have a different view of what 5 hours away is since I live in the NE where it's a lot of small states, but very few stories from 5 hours from where I live would make it on my local news (only ones of national interest).

Maybe reporters are asking Sheriff Bowerman questions and he says no comment at this time. He's been so hush-hush-don't-discuss and I don't know why.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Idaho has a population of about 1 million. We are considered a rural state with a small population given our size, but Idaho Falls, which is 4 hours away is really pretty close considering all the empty land between the cities. Statewide missing children, murders, deaths, etc. that happen in Idaho usually are covered by the Boise news. It could just be that there really is NO news to report on. Still, I'd sure like to see an investigative reporter get a hold of this story.

I feel like in every case, people talk about investigative reporters, but are they really that common for these stories? How many missing/murdered child cases are there where there is one (or more) reporters who is digging into the case and constantly providing updates and new information instead of LE handing it to them in the form of news releases and press conferences? I feel like in most cases, the amount and longevity of coverage really just depends on how long the parents and LE talk for. Once that stops, the media goes away, and don't really make much of an effort to keep the story in the news.

 

[babyback]

If this were my child, I would be screaming all pertinent information from the rooftops. I would be sitting on the doorstep of every single news establishment that I could find, so that the correct information got out to every corner of creation, so that my child could be brought home safely. I don't understand why this isn't being done. It's frustrating to say the least.

 

[Cakelady]

http://trainingforsar.com/case-studies/deorr-kunz-jr/

SAR training website, is doing a case study on DeOrr. They don't have much info, but claim they will update as it progresses.

 

[Dee10]

Maybe reporters are asking Sheriff Bowerman questions and he says no comment at this time. He's been so hush-hush-don't-discuss and I don't know why.

HI giving, just jumping off your post:

A reporter cannot report if there is no information given by LE, family or witnesses = no story to tell.

It has been said through many cases LE will only put out info. for a reason for example to shake a perp, public warning or to get the public to give info. so to speak.

As I watch this unfold, noting there are no news conferences & in fact the radio silence leads me to consider LE has honed in or is focused on working a 'specific' theory; something/someone close to home or local. I'm not going to attempt to comment on the parent's reasons for their evident, media refusal.

 

[neesaki]

Being from the area (although I've never been to this particular campsite), the whole "off the grid" description of this place is way off the mark. I grew up in Idaho and to this day I go back country hiking/camping (this is truly off the grid - you can only get to these places by foot and/or horseback, NEVER with a car or any other motorized vehicle. There are many, many places like this in Idaho. It is very common.)

Let's have a look at the campground during the time the big search was taking place: http://assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-...0/11721172_10204584241709400_1086032804_n.jpg. According to everyone, does this look "off the grid" or difficult to get to? There is clearly a nice dirt driveway. Plus, notice the types of vehicles that are there. Everything from trucks, to an ambulance to regular passenger cars. Everyone should think about this when deciding whether or not to believe the RSO Stage Stop owner when she said it was a really bad road and no one would just go up there to take a kid. Oh really? As evidenced by this photo and the types of vehicles that showed up for the search, the road can't be that bad.

WHITE RABBIT - Please don't take this as my singling you out. Many have said this place is off the grid and so remote. I wanted to just demonstrate that to locals, this place is really quite accessible, and pretty cozy if you ask me. Heck, you can even drive your camper up here. Or, if you're really adventurous, bring a tent and sleep on the FLAT, comfortable ground. Oh, and there is a toilet. Ahhhhh, what I wouldn't have given for all of those luxurious amenities during my last 25 mile back country 2 night hiking trip in the nearby Sawtooth Mountain Range. ;-)

You're so right ConcernedCitizen, we used to backpack into wilderness areas that could not be accessed by car at all. It was just parking somewhere at a trailhead, then we backpacked for several miles into the wilderness, at times through hail storms, rain, and snow, then pitching a small tent. We took things to filter water from streams, tiny little cooking utensils, and freeze dried packs of food, etc. There were sure no toilets in those places, these weren't even designated campgrounds, we just found a spot we liked, somewhat level and all that. It's been too long but is all coming back to me now, thanks for bringing back those wonderful memories. I really miss that life, so all I need to do now is convince my DH we can still do it

 

[neesaki]

http://trainingforsar.com/case-studies/deorr-kunz-jr/

SAR training website, is doing a case study on DeOrr. They don't have much info, but claim they will update as it progresses.

Correlations between this and the Dennis Martin case? I really, really hate to hear that.

Here's the link that another poster posted here earlier: http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/2014/05/22/dennis-martin-missing-45-years/9405607/

 

[babyback]

In reading that write up about Dennis Martin, it reminded me about trackers and what they are trained to do. One would have thought that, or hopefully that is, that someone would have attempted to track footprints in the soil around the small creek and also up at the reservoir. Of course the area would have most likely been trampled by dad and mom and others. And I've also thought about fresh car tracks. Sorry just thinking out loud.

 

[Elena]

EATON: Friday afternoon, the family arrives at the campground. They`re settled in, setting up their tent, having a good afternoon. The

parents decide to go on a walk. They leave the boy with his grandfather and the grandfather`s friend.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/15/ng.01.html

You would think they would want to correct that information, yes indeed, yet there it IS.:gaah:

That's what I thought too, because they were "starting to set up tents" @1PM, after they're back from the shop. Are there any advantages to leave this unconfirmed (Thursday / Friday) to back up their timeline / story?

 

[babyback]

That's what I thought too, because they were "starting to set up tents" @1PM, after they're back from the shop. Are there any advantages to leave this unconfirmed (Thursday / Friday) to back up their timeline / story?

For the life of me, I have no clue. I mean even if the entire group didn't arrive at the same time or day, what would make the difference to the overall timeline? Why not just give the date as Saturday evening?

 

[kammiemc]

EATON: Friday afternoon, the family arrives at the campground. They`re settled in, setting up their tent, having a good afternoon. The

parents decide to go on a walk. They leave the boy with his grandfather and the grandfather`s friend.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/15/ng.01.html

You would think they would want to correct that information, yes indeed, yet there it IS.:gaah:

Yeah, it seems that NE wasn't made aware of their arrival time, or he wouldn't have said they "arrived" at that time. If he knew they'd already been there all night and just made a trip into town for fries and groceries, he would've said something more applicable, like they "returned from a trip from town," etc.

I agree 100% that it could only help the child for the parents to be forthcoming with their arrival time/date just in case someone might know if there were others in the area that night, etc.

However, IF they were not forthcoming to media about things like their arrival time/date and that they were camping with someone they had not known before (who they would've known by the time of the interview had a checkered past) there could be way less nefarious reasons than that they were planning their son's disappearance.

(modsnip)

Nothing makes much sense, but it seems that the parents really loved their son, so I just want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[kammiemc]

For the life of me, I have no clue. I mean even if the entire group didn't arrive at the same time or day, what would make the difference to the overall timeline? Why not just give the date as Saturday evening?

Right? Of course, Sat would be a day after he went missing, but, sheesh, it would almost make as much sense at this point.

 

[Sillybilly]

RE: dirty or filthy as a descriptor

Mom's own words, and she didn't just say "filthy," she says "REALLY" filthy...

Transcript

Reporter: Is there any rumors that you've seen or anything you want to clear up, Jessica?

JM: I just . . . Somebody at the store, um, in Leadore, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only . . .
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015/page20

This may not be the case, but I would like to point out that if you read JM's sentence a bit differently, the "really filthy" followed by "buying candy for him ..." could pertain to the man rather than the child.

 

[kammiemc]

You're so right ConcernedCitizen, we used to backpack into wilderness areas that could not be accessed by car at all. It was just parking somewhere at a trailhead, then we backpacked for several miles into the wilderness, at times through hail storms, rain, and snow, then pitching a small tent. We took things to filter water from streams, tiny little cooking utensils, and freeze dried packs of food, etc. There were sure no toilets in those places, these weren't even designated campgrounds, we just found a spot we liked, somewhat level and all that. It's been too long but is all coming back to me now, thanks for bringing back those wonderful memories. I really miss that life, so all I need to do now is convince my DH we can still do it

I have heard the Sawthooth mountains are gorgeous. I'm not sure I have heard anyone besides the RSO say the campsite is really out there. I am sure people in Leadore get direct TV and wi-fi!

 

[margarita25]

Correlations between this and the Dennis Martin case? I really, really hate to hear that.

Here's the link that another poster posted here earlier: http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/2014/05/22/dennis-martin-missing-45-years/9405607/

Great article. Thanks for reposting.

 

[TxJan1971]

SillyBilly,
You may have missed the initial two posts from a poster questioning the exact word the clerk used, i.e. dirty versus filthy and questioning why folks were using the word filthy.

My post below was to simply provide exact verbiage as I had the statement/link available as to the specific verbiage used.

RE: dirty or filthy as a descriptor

Mom's own words, and she didn't just say "filthy," she says "REALLY" filthy...

Transcript
Reporter: Is there any rumors that you've seen or anything you want to clear up, Jessica?

JM: I just . . . Somebody at the store, um, in Leadore, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only . . .
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015/page20

This may not be the case, but I would like to point out that if you read JM's sentence a bit differently, the "really filthy" followed by "buying candy for him ..." could pertain to the man rather than the child.

In response to your post above, I concur -- see my post from 7-29-15

TxJan1971
Although we can most likely "assume" it is the "child" who was dirty, I, too, can see where it could imply the "gentleman" was dirty. (see transcript below)
<snipped transcript as it is provided above>

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-4&p=11966886#post11966886

My question back to you then is this:

If we are expected to believe the "man" was the one that was "really filthy" and the "man" was "buying Deorr candy," is it still the "man" then who was "bawling in a black truck???"
or are we supposed to jump back to believing that part is talking about Deorr because it makes the most sense even though we don't really know?

JMO IMO
I will add, however, that although I reserve the right to change my mind, I'd still bet the farm the clerk was describing the "bawling" child as "really filthy" and not the man. I base this on my intuition, photos available of Deorr, he was allegedly last seeing playing with GGP by the campfire, he was camping outdoors, he's a little boy and my experience with little boys is they don't mind getting dirty or filthy, and he was alleged to have been playing with a truck, which IMOO, he "may have been" playing with on the ground, near a campfire, on the ground, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, almost everything about this case is just an opinion due to lack of facts or follow-up clarification. The only thing we can really go on (IMO) are words coming directly from someone's mouth, as everything else is subject to interpretation or reporting accuracy or even errors made in transferring information from one source to another.