ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #67

[longtimereader]

At the risk of asking an annoying question as I have not researched on my own recently, is there already a witness list for LVD trial? Wondering if MBP, IP or Zulema are on it? So curious what will come to light. They are not charged with anything but seemed so heavily involved.

 

[fred&edna]

Will religion and zombies have a large role in this trial? I hope not.

I don't see how religion and zombies can be avoided. jmo

 

[indicolite22]

Just to clarify, both AB and MBP have pleaded the 5th? I didn't know that info but haven't read the grand jury info. How does that work then? If so, how can they provide an alibi?

MBP said at some point that she would rather die than betray Lori. I don't know how she testified in front of the GJ.

 

[Cool Cats]

MSN

Published: 2:10 PM MST March 7, 2023

Lori Vallow, the woman who is accused of murder and conspiracy to murder her two children and her husband Chad Daybell's former wife, Tammy Daybell, filed on Sunday to dismiss the death penalty prosecutors seek against her due to "the troubling thought" of executing a mentally ill person.

The motion to dismiss the death penalty for Vallow says that her mental illness is known to the court, as Vallow was found incompetent in 2021 and again in 2022. In November of 2022, the court found Vallow was fit to move ahead to trial. Her attorneys state that the prosecutors called Vallow not mentally ill, but evil.

"Even if the government’s new opinion of the defendant has some believers that the defendant is just evil, we don’t kill witches anymore in America," the motion says, calling a potential execution "a troubling thought."

 

[indicolite22]

I don't see how religion and zombies can be avoided. jmo

Technically if the prosecution focused on the financial motive (life insurances, inheritance and SS payments) it could work, too. If evidence is full of religious references, then religion can't be avoided IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

LV

View attachment 407651

On Lori's docket:

• 03/05/2023 Motion in Limine
• 03/05/2023 Motion to Dismiss Death Penalty
• 03/07/2023 Notice of Hearing
• 03/07/2023 Order Governing Conduct - Madison County Remote Viewing Location
• 03/07/2023 Order Governing Courtroom Conduct - Ada County Courtroom

Could you link me to Lori's Docket?

Thanks!!!!

 

[fred&edna]

Technically if the prosecution focused on the financial motive (life insurances, inheritance and SS payments) it could work, too. If evidence is full of religious references, then religion can't be avoided IMO.

Maybe so. I've been hoping religion and zombies could be avoided.

 

[watergirl62]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633236470755389441

 

[mickey2942]

Seriously? The defense is against the death penalty for LVD because "We don't kill witches any longer". LOL. What an apt description to compare LVD to a "Witch".

 

[indicolite22]

Could you link me to Lori's Docket?

Thanks!!!!

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[indicolite22]

What about Lori's jail calls? I wonder if she made any incriminating statements.

 

[887sMtreme]

Will religion and zombies have a large role in this trial? I hope not.

With apologies to Bill Clinton, it all depends on what your definition of “religion” is.

 

[887sMtreme]

DBM (duplicate)

 

[SteveS]

Question - does LV still have a status conference hearing on 3/9? TIA!
Just trying to keep my notes straight.

Any word on CD's next hearing?

I'm not fastidious about the schedule. But what I know is that
1 When we had conjoined trials planned, there was a pre-trial hearing scheduled for everyone on Mar 9.
2 Then they severed the trials, with CD's moved to the fall or later, and my guess was that CD's hearing was canceled, but LVD's would still be needed and held on Mar 9.
3 There was a new order today for a hearing for LVD on Mar 15. I assume that's the one that was previously planned for Mar 9.

In looking at the scheduling orders, I am reminded of the questionable (and perhaps EGREGIOUS) behavior of the DA's office in the discovery process. I noticed in the list of written items the state's Thirteenth Supplemental Discovery Disclosure which contained some miscellaneous items and reminders of possible items that the state was pointing out to the defense. While nothing in there would seem to be a big deal necessarily, the problem with it is that the state chose to file it the next day AFTER the court's deadline to get everything to the defense. The state's excuse? Well, it was close, and we didn't think any of it was highly important, so what's the biggie. While I am hoping LVD fries for her crimes, I think the court is likely to take great offense over the prosecutors' incompetent/negligent behavior and cavalier attitude toward the court. We may see on the 15th.

 

[fred&edna]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633236470755389441

Hmmm... Who was he speaking with on these calls?

 

[Ruminations]

I don't see how religion and zombies can be avoided. jmo

Part of the probable cause filing is that Chad and Lori espoused religious beliefs to justify killing Tylee, Jj and Tammy. In fact I think it was about the first sentence in the murder paragraphs. (There was a paragraph for each victim x 2, for each living and charged defendant, if I remember correctly.) So the prosecution has it front of mind.

That streamed into my consciousness today, pondering Prior's interest in John D as of Morman stories as a defense witness.

Maybe prior thinks such a witness could counter an assertion of the prosecution. But what assertion??? Hmmmm. This is not a witness who will deny some whacky beliefs are mainstream- even if mainstream worshipers are unaware. Maybe Prior wants a witness to say Lori and Chad are not so extreme- and being that your average LDS worshipper does not murder multiple people, the prosecution's whole premise is flawed.

But I think most LDS experts would either deny that Chad and Lori were mainstream OR agree that many faithful lifelong worshippers are unaware of these teachings even if they are part of the faith. I don't get what could be gained.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633236470755389441

Emma? Discussing how Lori framed Chad?

This is JUICY!!!

MOO

 

[mickey2942]

Life after death, ie, belief in "Resurrection" is not the same as "Zombie Apocalypse".

Resurrection - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Zombie apocalypse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SteveS]

Emma? Discussing how Lori framed Chad?

I think there's a reasonable chance it's a "just-in-case" fishing expedition on everything said by CD now in the possession of LE. I'm not saying there's nothing there, but not sure there is something of use either. As LVD's attorneys argued it, they want to get it to assess it for themselves because "the defense doesn't know what the defense doesn't have" - aka "you can't know what you don't know until you know it."

Additionally, I suspect they are also looking for any pertinent and perhaps significant evidence LE has kept undisclosed (which would be illegal and unconstitutional), because the state is already dealing with issues of illegal withholding of evidence in these cases. They've been sloppy at best, and deliberately going over the line at worst. When the evidence against the client is overwhelming, significant misdeeds by the state in regards to defendant's rights is one potential avenue to get such a case dismissed.

 

[KonaHonu]

Seriously? The defense is against the death penalty for LVD because "We don't kill witches any longer". LOL. What an apt description to compare LVD to a "Witch".

I actually find this a very good comparison, and not for disparaging reasons. During the Salem witch trials the witches were tried as much for their religious beliefs as for their acts. It is also now believed that most were mentally ill, or at least experiencing symptoms of mental illness due to ergot poisoning from moldy grain.

Before pointing fingers it should be noted that there are plenty of things in this country that would otherwise be illegal but are permitted when there are "sincerely held religious beliefs" to use the current term of art. Peyote can be used by Native Americans for example and Native Alaskans can hunt whales and seals.

Christianity and Judaism both have a history of animal sacrifice. Most Christian denominations practice ritualistic cannibalism (communion, consuming teh body and blood of Christ). I shudder to think how our courts would treat members of a tribe that do sincerely practice human sacrifice or cannibalism and somehow find themselves in the US. In 1993, the US supreme court ruled that members of the Santeria religion are protected from prosecution for sacrificing animals. I believe turning people into zombies (with drugs) is part of some Haitian religions. The Hawaiian religion practiced human sacrifice and it is still practiced by some today (without the sacrifice part.)

I think what Chad and Lori believed and did is way beyond any mainstream religion. But the thing is, constitutional protection does not depend on being mainstream. I could certainly see showing that they sincerely believed that people "go dark" or turn into zombies and must then be eliminated could be part of the defense if only to have grounds for appeal on religious freedom grounds later. It would appear from all we have heard that they actually did sincerely believe this. Yes, it is bat $4it crazy to me.

Just going to have to make popcorn and watch the circus play out!