Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[Forever Young]

Everything below is MOO.

I suspect that the raccoon text was sent in order to explain the freshly disturbed earth in the pet cemetery rather than a gunshot. It seems more likely that Tylee and JJ were killed in a manner that minimized blood evidence, such as poisoning or strangulation, as opposed to being shot.

The funny thing about Chad that a number of us have noticed is how he gives a way his thoughts right in the middle of trying to cover them up.

So here is another theory I have been batting around:

Most raccoons do not die from shooting. Most commonly, it is being hit on the road, "road kill". Chad did not need to construct an elaborate story about shooting a raccoon, IMO, unless there was an element of truth in it. He could have just said he found a dead raccoon on the road.

I read somewhere also that Chad's books were supposedly "fictionalized accounts of his own experiences". I even thought to myself that his text message about the raccoon almost sounded "novelistic", what with the coming storms and all, and how he was just going about his everyday business when the unexpected occurred.

Whether this came about on his property or elsewhere, I believe the elaborate story of shooting the raccoon as a cause of death may very well be pertinent.

 

[Spartygirl]

I agree. What is your opinion on if or how investigators will find enough evidence to charge either or both of them with murder? Is there a chance at all?? TIA

YES !!
One and/or more will definitely be charged with murder.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Thank you! I haven’t seen it in person since it’s at the Fremont County courthouse in Saint Anthony. We haven’t been by there yet.

Ok I’m not familiar with all the areas. It seems that a lot of people in your area and surrounding areas were affected by this.
I can’t even imagine how Tammys family is feeling by all the revelations of Chads other life.

 

[Forever Young]

I'm wondering if it could have been the photographer in the court room.

Could that explain the sound of scribbling as well? Since we are hearing what the court heard, someone could have been writing close to an open mic and we hear that along with the recorded conversation?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Chad had lots of time with lots of bodies....

I'd be interested if he ever buried someone he had beef with. Looking into their graves might provide evidence of an ongoing depravity, or if this level of it is new.

I would bet that the children/siblings/parents of Chad/Lori/AC know if the dog and cat that were by the body were theirs... or not.. or perhaps background on such that were found near the grave that didn't need the anthropologist to identify.

Supposedly, the three signs and triad iirc of a serial killer are

1)wetting the bed (as a child, so as an adult, only siblings/parents or friends when young would know) MOO
2)fires/arson
3)hurting animals

Just looked it up.. there are mannnnnnnnnnnny links to such triad and we have discussed this in many cases here at WS MOO

"The Macdonald triad refers to the idea that there are three signs that can indicate whether someone will grow up to be a serial killer or other kind of violent criminal: being cruel or abusive to animals, especially pets. setting fire to objects or otherwise committing minor acts of arson. regularly wetting the bed.Mar 24, 2020"

The Macdonald Triad: Can 3 Behaviors Predict a Serial Killer?

 

[BeckyF]

Is there the teeny tiniest chance Lori didn't know they were buried in Chad's back forty? Opinions please.

No

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Agreed. His cooperation with deceiving Joe Ryan said more about his character as well. And there are other things I have trouble with.

It is more around no one listening to what he was trying to get through to his Bishop, to LE.... I just get so sad that Lori could twist so much and twist Charles, and that no one would do anything..

Which is exactly what may be upcoming for these cases for LV and CD. That it is so twisted, and all is double talk etc.

Again MOO, the prosecutor will need to be able to stand up and be quick and get to the point, vs. a prosecutor who reads verbatim off of notes from a 3 ring binder turning each page in front of the jury MOO

 

[mommacass]

I'm wondering if it could have been the photographer in the court room.

Excellent guess. Thank you.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The satellite image that was taken sometime shortly after TR's body was burned and the remains buried there has what looks like wispy cloud cover. Is it possible that, rather than clouds, the wispy cover is actually residual smoke from that fire? If you look at that photo, there are NO CLOUDS anywhere else, but there is that wispy cover with CD's property dead center of it.

Satellite Photo Shows Chad Daybell Property On Likely Day Of Child's Burial

ETA: Here, for example, is a satellite photo of a much larger smoke plume from the November 2019 Camp Fire in northern California. I wonder if a study of the atmospheric conditions on Sept 9 would indicate that the "clouds" in the satellite image over the Daybell property on Sept 9 are in fact smoke.

SOURCE:
Satellite image shows Camp Fire smoke covering Bay Area

Was discussed in depth many threads ago. Pull back.. consensus was clouds and obvious MOO Not smoke 2 hours later.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I have relistened to the tape. There are several types of sounds, scribbling, crackling, and possible recorder movement. In my own amateur way, I counted approximately 27-30 such sounds. Out of those, my ear (unprofessional!!) counted 11-12 scribbles on a pad. This probably helps nobody; I was just curious to do this for myself. ALL IMO

When the case gets bigger, subthreads will be made (like with the CA case and Frazee/Berreth case) so we can take this recording and do the transcription in relation to such noises. Every time I relisten, I am more convinced these are not random noises.

 

[justanurse]

I would bet that the children/siblings/parents of Chad/Lori/AC know if the dog and cat that were by the body were theirs... or not.. or perhaps background on such that were found near the grave that didn't need the anthropologist to identify.

Supposedly, the three signs and triad iirc of a serial killer are

1)wetting the bed (as a child, so as an adult, only siblings/parents or friends when young would know) MOO
2)fires/arson
3)hurting animals

Just looked it up.. there are mannnnnnnnnnnny links to such triad and we have discussed this in many cases here at WS MOO

"The Macdonald triad refers to the idea that there are three signs that can indicate whether someone will grow up to be a serial killer or other kind of violent criminal: being cruel or abusive to animals, especially pets. setting fire to objects or otherwise committing minor acts of arson. regularly wetting the bed.Mar 24, 2020"

The Macdonald Triad: Can 3 Behaviors Predict a Serial Killer?

I think the Macdonald triad which, was from the 60s, has been largely unproven.
Triad of Evil

 

[passionflower]

I would bet that the children/siblings/parents of Chad/Lori/AC know if the dog and cat that were by the body were theirs... or not.. or perhaps background on such that were found near the grave that didn't need the anthropologist to identify.

Supposedly, the three signs and triad iirc of a serial killer are

1)wetting the bed (as a child, so as an adult, only siblings/parents or friends when young would know) MOO
2)fires/arson
3)hurting animals

Just looked it up.. there are mannnnnnnnnnnny links to such triad and we have discussed this in many cases here at WS MOO

"The Macdonald triad refers to the idea that there are three signs that can indicate whether someone will grow up to be a serial killer or other kind of violent criminal: being cruel or abusive to animals, especially pets. setting fire to objects or otherwise committing minor acts of arson. regularly wetting the bed.Mar 24, 2020"

The Macdonald Triad: Can 3 Behaviors Predict a Serial Killer?

Does it apply to females (LVD)too? Curious about her.

 

[indicolite22]

Ive been thinking about this as well. I think that they had their little "community" and within this little "community" they had superiority. They were like celebrities or becoming like....
They had their podcasts, interviews, books, conferences... They were "moving on up" so to speak. I believe my theory may be proven by the fact they were even contemplating moving closer to eachother. When they were looking at property....

They enjoyed this lemon bulb and were a team. Until.....MG was told to lie to the police. It was then, imo, that MG saw this for what it was, there was no team....it was LV and CD period. MG began to realize that she was only an underling...most likely during the week or so it took to fess up to the police. It must have been during that week she phoned AxC and was told, "you don't want to know where JJ is..... perhaps she also began to realize the big times ahead were over. All that mattered or appeared to matter was CD and LV and their new life together.

Imo this is when MG bailed and became an informant. I don't think she EVER cared about the kids or their well being.

I say all this, getting back to your thoughts....I think they were taking advantage of their "religion" to become big time internet evangelists but LV and CDs love life and greed got in the way.

According to MG's EIN interview, she travelled from Utah to Arizona for Thanksgiving and while there spoke to Alex in person. She also spoke with Chad and Lori on her way to Arizona. It's unclear how long after the conversation with Alex she called Chad and Lori again, but it was on or before Dec 6 when she contacted Rexburg PD. The recorded conversation was from Dec 8.

As far as using scripture in their discussions, MG once said that Lori studied scripture often and was well versed. Chad probably used it a lot as well when teaching his group. He and Lori likely created their own interpretation that they used as a guide for or justification of their actions.

 

[Diddian]

Was discussed in depth many threads ago. Pull back.. consensus was clouds and obvious MOO Not smoke 2 hours later.

Thanks for letting me know! I've been following here closely, but there have been a few days I've spent driving and must have missed it then. Glad not to invest more time if already well-considered.

ETA: For anyone else who might have started to follow along with my line of thinking here, at 2:19 in this video, you can see the provider of the satellite images showing the broader satellite image, which includes the surrounding areas, before narrowing in on the Daybell property:
Satellite photo shows Chad Daybell property on likely day of child's burial

 

[Campizi67]

<snipped for focus>

This part here has always bothered me some. So Melanie says she asked Alex if she wanted to know where JJ is, and he replies that she DOESN'T want to know, and that JJ can't be found.

This makes me think that there must have been some prior conversation before Melanie asked if she wanted to know where JJ is. Then Alex, rather honestly, says no, she doesn't.

It is strange to me that Alex would be so forthcoming with Melanie when what she gets from Lori is "no, no, JJ's safe and happy".

I don't want to read too much in to such a snippet of a peek into the character of Alex Cox, but I find it striking that he automatically doesn't lie in this instance of unguarded conversation with Melanie Gibb.

Yes! All of this! Imo AxC trusted her and felt comfortable saying this to her. Which causes me to believe he also thought she was important to the "team".

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Ok I’m not familiar with all the areas. It seems that a lot of people in your area and surrounding areas were affected by this.
I can’t even imagine how Tammys family is feeling by all the revelations of Chads other life.

No worries! There’s a courthouse in Saint Anthony in Fremont County and one here is Rexburg in Madison County. It’s confusing because there’s so many details pertaining to each charge and where there are different counties involved.

 

[jash]

Has Lori's father ever spoken publicly in regards to this case? I found it curious in the call between Melanie and Lori that Melanie brings him up and Lori says most of her family is working against her.

Her brother AdC is the only Cox I've heard of who is not "team Lori". Just more of Lori's lies?

(around 3:00)
MG: So is it, do you think it's like your family, or you know like your family, your dad, or you know, those people --
LVD: Well my family, well not my whole family, but as you know most of my family is working against me and --
MG: Yeah.
LVD: -- and with her [Kay], basically.
MG: Yeah.​

 

[Spartygirl]

According to MG's EIN interview, she travelled from Utah to Arizona for Thanksgiving and while there spoke to Alex in person. She also spoke with Chad and Lori on her way to Arizona. It's unclear how long after the conversation with Alex she called Chad and Lori again, but it was on or before Dec 6 when she contacted Rexburg PD. The recorded conversation was from Dec 8.

As far as using scripture in their discussions, MG once said that Lori studied scripture often and was well versed. Chad probably used it a lot as well when teaching his group. He and Lori likely created their own interpretation that they used as a guide for or justification of their actions.

BBm-
I am curious as to when during Thanksgiving MG spoke to AxC.
Nov 28th was Thanksgiving day, AxC and ZPC were married the next day, Nov 29th and were still there the following day, Nov 30th for MP and IP's wedding.
Did she spend Thanksgiving Day with Alex ??
I wouldn't think so as most people are with family but who knows with this group.

 

[Kudzu]

That is a GREAT question!

 

[vislaw]

The satellite image that was taken sometime shortly after TR's body was burned and the remains buried there has what looks like wispy cloud cover. Is it possible that, rather than clouds, the wispy cover is actually residual smoke from that fire? If you look at that photo, there are NO CLOUDS anywhere else, but there is that wispy cover with CD's property dead center of it....

Thanks for raising this question. We did look at this image and I'm quite confident what you see in the satellite photo is cloud cover over the Daybell property and not smoke from ground level. Relevant elements to this analysis are as follows:

1) The photo was taken at 1:32 pm on September 9, 2019. Wind readings for the Rexburg-Madison County Station were 13mph wind/23 mph gust from southwest at 12:53 pm and 12mph wind/20mph gust at 1:53 pm. If this is smoke from the firepit we wouldn't expect to see it arrayed to the northeast while the wisps in this photo are congregated to the southeast.

2) When I sample the RGB /Intensity values for the haze we find the exact same RGB /Intensity values are distributed throughout the surrounding cloud formation (see the highlighted matches in RED below).

3) Your aerial image from the Butte County "Campfire" blaze also shows the characteristic plume effect from ground fire sources which is not present in the Daybell satellite image. Moreover, the size of a localized burn at the fire pit would not be expected to result in a large diffuse plume like we see here. [By the way, we are working on the "Campfire" death cases and have been working with a pyro expert who has educated me quite a bit on smoke behavior. I will go ahead and show him the photo just to get his input and report accordingly.]

Thanks so much again for your query.