Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[DI_Isokawa]

This is a good question!! Remember Lori changed her vehicle. Was it after the move to Rexburg? Were the vehicles impounded by LE. Where are the vehicles now? If Lori changed her vehicle after either Tylee or JJ went missing, then I would imagine that vehicle was used to transport at least 1 body.

I have been unable to uncover evidence of the disposition of Lori's Infiniti SUV with Arizona handicap plates or Charles's Ford F150 truck, which also had AZ handicap plates. It is possible that she traded down for the Nissan Rogue seen in the storage locker videos. There's a Nissan dealership in Rexburg, maybe somebody local has a friend

Best assumption on the Ford is that Kay and Larry know what happened to it.

 

[Tortoise]

In the Rexburg video, it states the Rogue is hers. In video when Charles was shot, she was driving another vehicle she stated. And also in the police video when she and Tylee were at the PD.

IIRC

ETA: Two vehicles.
\
Here is one vehicle mention of the Rogue in Rexburg.

Queue up to ~1:00 and before of Lori's car - blue Rogue

And when she was at the Gilbert police station, MG stated that Lori had Xfinity QX @~3:30

On the day of the welfare check the officers stated a blue Subaru parked there was Lori's.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

This was only a Preliminary hearing to prove probable cause. Goodness knows the bodies alone found on CD’s property was probable cause.

There will be loads more coming during Discovery prior to trial. LE/prosecutors don’t have to show all their cards at this stage.

All the forensics with subsequent information from those two poor children is yet to come.

I’m not sure they have cause of death yet for JJ/Tylee. If they do, it certainly wasn’t released to the general public yet.

At this point, there is no need for the Prosecution to give up *any* hint of their case and evidence against CD except what was needed to establish probable cause. They’ll get into fingerprints, plastic garbage serrations and much much more during trial.

Agree. There are so many interviews and evidence that I would think are extremely relevant which never came out. And the prosecution will drip drip drip to LV and CD.

Death by a thousand cuts/leaks to the defense for them both.

I'm confident that Tylee's brother has been interviewed, not in the least as to his funds which were transferred to him "from Tylee" and his texts "from Tylee" after she passed.

I'm relieved that he wasn't on the stand during the prelim - yet I'm so heartbroken for him (and many many many more of course) as to how his (*(*&# mother has affected him so significantly.

 

[RickshawFan]

I wonder if you declare that you know your spouse is going to die soon because you've seen it in visions, will effect your ability to take out/increase life insurance?

You don't generally have control over someone else's insurance policy. It's their money and they get to decide.
If you were the owner of a policy on someone else, this would be possible, but there would likely be a fraud investigation if it looked out of line. I can't remember the rules, but you might have to have the insured's permission to open an insurance policy on them. This set up would be fairly common in marriages.
A good example of an owner being different from the insured would be a company taking out an "essential person policy" on its senior executives. It protects against losing an entire company if, say, the CEO dies of a heart attack.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

On the day of the welfare check the officers stated a blue Subaru parked there was Lori's.

Thanks, have I got the information wrong on the cars? Three cars? I need to revisit the timeline we have here at WS.. is all this information there?

We keep going back to the wonderful timelines! What would we do without them!

So is this all correct?

1) In the Rexburg storage video, it states the Rogue is hers.

2) In video when Charles was shot, she was driving another vehicle she stated. And also in the police video when she and Tylee were at the PD when she was at the Gilbert police station, MG stated that Lori had Xfinity QX

3) Blue Suburu in Rexburg at the day of the welfare check/when they fled.

 

[Diddian]

To me "green bucket" doesn't equal "green top". IIRC the totes seen on Alex's truck were black, so they wouldn't qualify for a green bucket found in Tylee's grave.

I'm inclined to agree that when the recovery team reported "bucket" they meant bucket and not a bin, unless the container was so melted they could not determine which.

I did find a "Little Giant 20 qt (5 gallon) Bucket in green sold by Ace Hardware. At 10:47AM, AxC's phone pinged in St. Anthony and there is a Dan's Ace Hardware store in St. Anthony. I checked online and the bucket is not currently available in-store there, but can be ordered and picked up in-store a week or so after order.

But, maybe that bucket WAS in their inventory on Sept 9, the day AxC went into St. Anthony. It is currently in inventory in the Dan's Ace Hardware in Driggs.

Little Giant 20 qt. Bucket Green - Ace Hardware

IMO, TR's body was not likely dismembered before delivery to CD's property, but instead disjoined as it was removed from the fire pit after burning was attempted. This likely accounts for finding some uncharred pink flesh, which would likely be at the points were disjoining occurred and uncharred flesh became exposed.

If AxC and CD decided to "cancel" the burn the body to ash plan after an hour or so and opted for burial instead, they may have used tools (shovels, rakes) to - as quickly as they could - drag the body - which broke into hot parts as they did - from the fire pit to the burial site (behind the end of the barn out of view of the house and back driveway) and then decided they needed a container to gather some of the many hot smaller parts to move all at once. So, AxC headed into nearby St. Anthony for a bucket while CD, the graveyard sexton began digging.

 

[nyvictoria]

I think the light/dark was for Loris family? As far as I am aware, Tammy was always seen as dying early as per Chads visions. I do not think Zombies can be rehabiltated, IIRC all dark spirits remain dark.

Jumping off your post... It seems as though Lori needed a reason, other than pure selfishness, lust and greed, to murder Tylee and JJ. Chad apparently was fine with murdering Tammy even though he never stated she was dark. I think he put out the prediction of Tammy dying young and then kept it in his back pocket for a long time with the plan to use it when he met a woman he wanted to bed.

 

[Diddian]

On the day of the welfare check the officers stated a blue Subaru parked there was Lori's.

The Nissan Rogue has an oval logo emblem on the front of the grill. I could easily see an officer seeing that from a distance and mistaking it for Subaru's oval logo emblem with the little stars inside, especially since a Rogue is about the same size as an Outback or Forester.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm inclined to agree that when the recovery team reported "bucket" they meant bucket and not a bin, unless the container was so melted they could not determine which.

I did find a "Little Giant 20 qt (5 gallon) Bucket in green sold by Ace Hardware. At 10:47AM, AxC's phone pinged in St. Anthony and there is a Dan's Ace Hardware store in St. Anthony. I checked online and the bucket is not currently available in-store there, but can be ordered and picked up in-store a week or so after order.

But, maybe that bucket WAS in their inventory on Sept 9, the day AxC went into St. Anthony. It is currently in inventory in the Dan's Ace Hardware in Driggs.

Little Giant 20 qt. Bucket Green - Ace Hardware

IMO, TR's body was not likely dismembered before delivery to CD's property, but instead disjoined as it was removed from the fire pit after burning was attempted. This likely accounts for finding some uncharred pink flesh, which would likely be at the points were disjoining occurred and uncharred flesh became exposed.

If AxC and CD decided to "cancel" the burn the body to ash plan after an hour or so and opted for burial instead, they may have used tools (shovels, rakes) to - as quickly as they could - drag the hot parts from the fire pit to the burial site (behind the end of the barn out of view of the house and back driveway) and then decided they needed a container to gather some of the many hot smaller parts to move all at once. So, AxC headed into nearby St. Anthony for a bucket while CD, the graveyard sexton began digging.

We don't know, but that fits my theory as to why dismembered yet "pink" flesh. That was HORRID to hear in testimony. Just HORRID MOO. That to me explained and was just so emotional as to the visual.... as to "undercooked meat" someone might be familiar with.

 

[Forever Young]

I knew about that. It happened many months before and Lori might have used it in jest, out of frustration when Tylee refused to babysit JJ. It only tells me that Tylee knew about zombies (it is questionable if she believed in any of it), not that she was in imminent danger. IMO Tylee didn't feel threatened by Lori. On the other hand, JJ was killed days after being declared a zombie.

I would like to point out something that apparently not many have taken note of both here and in the MSM.

That statement of hearing Tylee in the background saying "Not me, Mom" made by MG was later corrected in the affidavit of probable cause here:

22. Melani Gibb has further informed RPD that sometime in the spring of 2019, before the death of Charles Vallow, that Lori Vallow called Tylee a zombie. Gibb was on the phone with Lori and heard Lori call Tylee a zombie to which Tylee responded “not me, mom.” (Upon the unsealing of my probable cause affidavit in State V. Daybell CR22-20-0755, Gibb spoke with me and clarified that Lori herself told Gibb that Tylee responded t0 being called a zombie by saying “not me, mom.” Gibb did not hear Tylee say these words herself.) This arose out of Lori requiring Tylee to babysit JJ and Tylee did not want to. Lori Vallow also told Gibb that Tylee had turned into zombie When she was 12 or 13, which was approximately the same time Tylee had become “difficult” to deal with.

Item 22 here:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Affidavit of Probable Cause.pdf

 

[RickshawFan]

IMO, TR's body was not likely dismembered before delivery to CD's property, but instead disjoined as it was removed from the fire pit after burning was attempted. This likely accounts for finding some uncharred pink flesh, which would likely be at the points were disjoining occurred and uncharred flesh became exposed.

Snipped for focus.
See upthread. As pointed out several times, "dismembered" by definition requires a person or creature actively and deliberately separating the parts, it does NOT mean the parts got separated in the course of something else happening, e.g. being incinerated.
Merriam-Webster for definition: Definition of DISMEMBER
LE's use of the verb "dismember" in this case is VERY particular IMO, otherwise they could have used a different word that didn't convey deliberately severing limb from limb.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Jumping off your post... It seems as though Lori needed a reason, other than pure selfishness, lust and greed, to murder Tylee and JJ. Chad apparently was fine with murdering Tammy even though he never stated she was dark. I think he put out the prediction of Tammy dying young and then kept it in his back pocket for a long time with the plan to use it when he met a woman he wanted to bed.

We have read through reputable websites that are following this case that Tammy's insurance was increased right before her death.

Have we ever seen the date of such, or the amount of increase? She didn't change jobs to have such, so wondering minds want to know but I don't recall any follow up by Nate on such date/amount to $430,000.

 

[RickshawFan]

There's no way Chad or Alex was out there in the middle of his property, no tree cover, burning an entire almost-adult body. The body had to have been dismembered ahead of time IMO. The package would have been huge and a dead weight. Very conspicuous. How would he and/or Alex even be lifting it?

 

[Forever Young]

Jumping off your post here. Re the bucket - IMO used to put remains in from the fire - they were hot and that is why the bucket is melted (we don't know how much the bucket was melted). At the moment I do not think the remains were in the bucket and then the bucket put in the fire.

A question. Do we have floor plans of the townhouses? I seem to recall that the garage for each property was at the rear of each townhouse, so am wondering if there is access from the interior of the townhouse to the garage? This would make moving the body less obvious.

MOO, Tylee could have been killed in the bed of Alex's pickup truck. Then, the only time she would have had to be moved was from the bed of the pickup truck to the firepit; thus the body would never have been in either Alex's or Lori's apartment. A lot easier to clean up the bed of the truck than to attempt to clean up a murder scene in an apartment.

 

[Diddian]

Snipped for focus.
See upthread. As pointed out several times, "dismembered" by definition requires a person or creature actively and deliberately separating the parts, it does NOT mean the parts got separated in the course of something else happening, e.g. being incinerated.
Merriam-Webster for definition: Definition of DISMEMBER
LE's use of the verb "dismember" in this case is VERY particular IMO, otherwise they could have used a different word that didn't convey deliberately severing limb from limb.

Graphic, so please avoid if preferred:

Dismember means to sever or disjoin. As a body burns, the softer tissues "cook," sizzle, and shrink away from the harder bones. After a body has burned for a couple of hours, some of those tissues holding limbs together at the joints could very easily separate or disjoin. Moving them from one place to another with tools, such as shovels or rakes, would easily further separate or disjoin them.

I hate to make this comparison, but anyone who has cooked a whole chicken and then taken it apart for serving has seen this disjoining occur, with or without using a knife to make it happen.

Of course, there is also the possibility that a severing tool was used, such as an ax to sever the partially burned body, thus opening up tissue that was still uncharred flesh.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I would like to point out something that apparently not many have taken note of both here and in the MSM.

That statement of hearing Tylee in the background saying "Not me, Mom" made by MG was later corrected in the affidavit of probable cause here:

22. Melani Gibb has further informed RPD that sometime in the spring of 2019, before the death of Charles Vallow, that Lori Vallow called Tylee a zombie. Gibb was on the phone with Lori and heard Lori call Tylee a zombie to which Tylee responded “not me, mom.” (Upon the unsealing of my probable cause affidavit in State V. Daybell CR22-20-0755, Gibb spoke with me and clarified that Lori herself told Gibb that Tylee responded t0 being called a zombie by saying “not me, mom.” Gibb did not hear Tylee say these words herself.) This arose out of Lori requiring Tylee to babysit JJ and Tylee did not want to. Lori Vallow also told Gibb that Tylee had turned into zombie When she was 12 or 13, which was approximately the same time Tylee had become “difficult” to deal with.

Item 22 here:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Affidavit of Probable Cause.pdf

Thanks. I did miss that!

 

[RickshawFan]

We have read through reputable websites that are following this case that Tammy's insurance was increased right before her death.

Have we ever seen the date of such, or the amount of increase? She didn't change jobs to have such, so wondering minds want to know but I don't recall any follow up by Nate on such date/amount to $430,000.

A job change would not be necessary to change a life insurance policy. TD's insurance IMO if increased, was increased with her approval: so far there hasn't been a lot of evidence to suggest she didn't trust CD.
Keep in mind, TD was the breadwinner in the family. In a normal household, you'd want to be insuring the breadwinner; otherwise, if there's an accident, the family would have no income.
In my long-ago insurance agent days, I used to advise guys whose spouses contributed a substantial portion of the income and/or taking care of the couple's kids, they'd better insure their spouse big time! It would definitely impact his career and resources if she had an accident and he had to take care of the kids....
$430k does seem large to me, especially since this was a modest household, but it would depend on the increments in the policy. If it cost $10 extra a month to purchase $200k extra insurance, that might be an incentive to buy.
Though it seems likely the amount was for nefarious reasons on CD's part, there are too many contrary possibilities to make that a definitive argument IMO.

 

[TexieLouWho21]

I have been thinking about who might roll on who first to get a deal. I'm beginning to think neither one will be offered a deal. The reason being could LE ever really trust either one to tell any semblance of the truth? LVD lies,then tells lies to cover those lies,ect. This is well documented. CD has also been caught in his own lies to LE and acquaintances. So could LE really ever trust either one enough to offer any kind of deal? I am just wondering. I dont know how that works. If anyone has any thoughts,or knows, I'm all ears.

 

[RickshawFan]

Dismember means to sever or disjoin.

Snipped for focus.
This phrasing in this sentence is correct. It is a deliberate and not casual act. It is a transitive verb; this means someone did something to someone/something else. In the passive, it would mean "something had something done to it BY someone". The "by" has to be overt or implied.

Let me paste the Merriam-Webster definition, ( Definition of DISMEMBER) so it's absolutely clear. Then I'll move on; this whole scene is horrifying to contemplate.

Definition of dismember


transitive verb

1: to cut off or disjoin the limbs, members, or parts of
2: to break up or tear into pieces

 

[JolietJake]

Warning-graphic
I'm not sure if all of the remains would fit into a single bucket. Putting a bucket on the fire would probably slow down the burning of the remains. IMO the bucket would have slowly melted before fire reached the remains.
Another question: How was Tylee's body transported from the crime scene to Chad's backyard? Could Alex have carried it alone? Maybe Lori helped him putting the body in his truck (in the garage our outside?) and Chad helped with the unloading. If dismemberement took place elsewhere, then bins or bags could have been used.

Adding to my earlier theory, in the police body cam video in AZ when Charles was killed, Tylee herself said she weighed 160 lbs. Tylee was not a small girl so I'd say she was much too large for someone to carry intact.

According to FBI Special Agent Steve Daniels, he said they found a mass of remains in burial location #2. As they continued excvating in layers they found the partially melted bucket. Beneath and to the side of the bucket was the skull. This part of his testimony starts around the 50.0 minute mark.

AxC was there for quite a while the day after Yellowstone. The orientation of the body parts, with the bucket being above some of the parts, tells me that the bucket may have contained the last parts to be transported. SA Daniels's testimony leads me to believe that dismemberment took place somewhere else and the body parts were transported to the site in the bucket. It may be that they/he threw the bucket in near the end of the job, hoping the bucket would burn along with everything else left in it. Partially melted goes back to my earlier theory about liquid material in a container while in a fire.

Any wood, fuel, or accelerant was likely put on top of the remains and then lit. As the forensic team dug some vertebrae parts were found first so it seems like the fire was stirred at some point. This stirring could have been during or after the initial fire and additional fires may have been lit afterwards since the neighbors mentioned more than one fire, I believe.

I'm sure more detailed information will come when the trials go on but I'm thinking this makes the most sense considering the lack of brain power with the perps.

MOO