Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #56

[squareandrabbet]

Yeah, I thought her detail about Ryans temper was odd, unnecessary considering the big murdering-Lori picture.

Tammy’s sister said Chad told her after the funeral ...he couldn’t go to that house.He was going to go stay with a friend (Lori ) . Married her in Hawaii.
Nate said the one slip up Chad made was texting Tammy about killing the raccoon , pet cemetery & firepit. Tammy’s sister helped by pointing on a map to the fire pit, cemetery ...low and behold AC phone pinged there on the next day of last sighting of each kid. I’m glad Tammys sister got to participate. Somehow it feels like Tammy helped find JJ & TR.


MOO

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I think the part about Joe's temper was in there primarily to explain why Annie was estranged from Joe until his death; and also maybe a little why Annie put the blame on Joe whilst ignoring Lori's flaws for several years.

Neither the guardian ad litem or evaluating social worker said they believed Joe had sexually abused Tylee OR Colby. They said Lori coached, brainwashed, and manipulated both kids into their statements.

The Dateline crew did a good job of gathering up and integrating lots of loose ends that we couldn't discuss before for lack of their being in MSM; which is great.

 

[mickey2942]

Yes, Tammie's sister is on now. Tammie seemed like quite an amazing woman. She knew CD from high school?

I am glad that the FBI was able to check out the firepit, and correlate AC's cellphone data. I am still stunned by how impossibly dense CD and LVD were to bury the children in CD's yard. There is SO much space in that area of Idaho/Montana. Crazy.

The Fremont police didn't come off very good. TD reports a guy with a "paint gun" and less than two weeks later, she is dead?! No autopsy?!

 

[onceuponadecember]

Honestly, I feel like no matter what the response to my statement is going to be, it'll be negative:
Nobody in this family is innocent.
If the grandparents were so concerned about JJ, why were they fighting at the last minute?
If Annie was so concerned about Tylee, why not contact people sooner or even police?

 

[Boxer]

Yes, Tammie's sister is on now. Tammie seemed like quite an amazing woman. She knew CD from high school?

I am glad that the FBI was able to check out the firepit, and correlate AC's cellphone data. I am still stunned by how impossibly dense CD and LVD were to bury the children in CD's yard. There is SO much space in that area of Idaho/Montana. Crazy.

The Rexburg police didn't come off very good. TD reports a guy with a "paint gun" and less than two weeks later, she is dead?! No autopsy?!

IIRC Daybell home is in Fremont County.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

well, just a small snippet of her update today said this “What does it mean? When you put all the pieces together, it COULD mean that Lori is unavailable for some reason. Could that be because she is ill or incapacitated? While I don’t want to “put the cart before the horse,” I think it’s possible.”.....I believe that’s what is being referred to here.

I’m sorry, but I’m definitely going to disagree. I personally have seen MM coming and going this week. I believe someone also visiting the emergency room would have seen/heard her or saw extra police presence. Not to mention, if MM is going to be here so much wouldn’t he be with his client? LVD status is still sitting at “in custody” instead of “infirmary”, which to my knowledge is usually a change the jail would make to keep track of inmates. (I’m aware of hippa but other visitors may have seen something which I haven’t heard. And this would have been pretty big news here. Also aware MM may have other clients, though I believe this particular case/client require a lot of attention with everything going on.)

All jmo moo imo

 

[mickey2942]

I’m sorry, but I’m definitely going to disagree. I personally have seen MM coming and going this week. I believe someone also visiting the emergency room would have seen/heard her or saw extra police presence. Not to mention, if MM is going to be here so much wouldn’t he be with his client? LVD status is still sitting at “in custody” instead of “infirmary”, which to my knowledge is usually a change the jail would make to keep track of inmates. (I’m aware of hippa but other visitors may have seen something which I haven’t heard. And this would have been pretty big news here. Also aware MM may have other clients, though I believe this particular case/client require a lot of attention with everything going on.)

All jmo moo imo

I agree, that news would go like wildfire.

Why do you think MM is at the detention center so frequently?

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Honestly, I feel like no matter what the response to my statement is going to be, it'll be negative:
Nobody in this family is innocent.
If the grandparents were so concerned about JJ, why were they fighting at the last minute?
If Annie was so concerned about Tylee, why not contact people sooner or even police?

I’m not the family, so I can’t speak for them. But perhaps they were doing more and we just aren’t aware. Maybe they were doing everything they could think of in the minute but didn’t know how to do more. Maybe they missed extra red flags because they never thought the worst could happen.

I don’t believe we can blame those who are left behind by these horrible events. The truth is, they may still feel awful about how things played out and wish things were done differently.

All jmo moo imo.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

I agree, that news would go like wildfire.

Why do you think MM is at the detention center so frequently?

There’s several theories I’ve been pondering: writing a book (another poster shared this idea and I think it’s more than plausible), working on a plea deal, coming up with alibis, reviewing evidence together (there’s a whole boat load and then some, they may never get through it all), meeting via zoom together with other experts (they’ve hired out for other items like when they tried to get RW replaced), LVD needing/wanting extra company/reassurance, trying to convince MM that it was all CD fault and LVD knew nothing about it.

All jmo moo imo, any explanation could be possible at this point. But I agree that it’s a lot of excess time to visit.

 

[indicolite22]

Honestly, I feel like no matter what the response to my statement is going to be, it'll be negative:
Nobody in this family is innocent.
If the grandparents were so concerned about JJ, why were they fighting at the last minute?
If Annie was so concerned about Tylee, why not contact people sooner or even police?

IMO JJ's grandparents did everything they could. Their last (video) contact with JJ was in late August for less than a minute. They didn't know where Lori moved with the kids. In the following months Kay wrote her emails, each time begging her to let them see JJ. Lori never replied. (She claimed afterwards that Kay was threatening her.) In early November Kay found Lori's address by accident through Charles' email account and that's when the welfare check was initiated.

How could anyone have suspected that Lori would murder her children? Kay and Larry knew that she was angry for missing out on Charles' life insurance payment and likely thought that she was punishing them by keeping JJ away. She had full custody and could do that.

Even if Kay and Larry had the information at hand and called the police earlier, it's questionable if it would have made a difference for the children. They were both murdered within a month of the move.

Colby tried to speak to Tylee in late September (after the kids were already dead), but Lori impersonated her in text and told him that she was busy.

We know that Lori's mother talked to Lori on the phone for an hour in early October. She claimed that she heard JJ as well, which was obviously not true.

Annie wouldn't have a clue what was happening to the family since she lost contact in mid-2018, unless she had other sources.

IMO none of the above people could have saved the kids. Some of them could have been asking more questions sooner. I have no doubt that Lori could be convincing in her excuses to family.

 

[indicolite22]

The Fremont police didn't come off very good. TD reports a guy with a "paint gun" and less than two weeks later, she is dead?! No autopsy?!

The paintball gun incident was labeled a prank. Tammy had no obvious enemies. Having a hit put on her would probably sound absurd to her and to most people who knew the family. Her dying in her sleep could have several explanations. Chad was probably playing a grieving husband, accepting a natural death and acting hurt at the thought of an autopsy. IMO it was up to the coroner to decide. Did they put heart attack as her COD?

ETA: How did the co-conspirators know there would be no autopsy for Tammy? What if the coroner insisted on one? Did they use something that wouldn't be detected routinely?

 

[indicolite22]

I like her take on Tammy’s autopsy.
The autopsy findings of JR and AC were released straight away ...as natural.
But not Tammy’s ....why?


MOO

Because of an ongoing investigation into her death? The results of the children's autopsies (if ready) haven't been released either and probably won't be until the (murder) trial.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Dateline: "Mommy Doomsday"

Charles' Vallow's ex wife, Kimberly: Some of his confidence began to look careless. He got vindictive toward her.
Charles' ex wife Cheryl: I saw an instability in Lori and I didn't want it around my boys.

The Vallow's church friends in Hawaii: Lori had a beautiful voice. (I see future jail prison talent contests a la Jodi Arias.)
They were surprised when they left Hawaii. Charles said JJ needed things they couldn't provide in Hawaii.

Here comes Melanie Gibb: It's the same clips with her they've shown on Dateline previously.

A lot of the show tonight has been seen in prior programs.

Tammy Daybell's sister Samantha: I never got to talk to Chad about what happened. Was he avoiding me?
Samantha did some research on Chad's new wife. That was how she was choosing to grieve. She found out Chad was lying to her.
Chad called her to see if they knew anything about Tammy being exhumed. Chad told her LVD had grown children.

A recording of Chad telling Melanie G. that Samantha was probably behind the investigation and it was her "dark game."

What I had not realized, or completely missed, was that their was another nephew that had been adopted.

 

[indicolite22]

The only reason I can see for MM to be with LVD in person so frequently is that he must have received exclusive rights to a book deal/movie. I don't see CD paying the fees for this much work. Or even state funding.

IIRC, Chad and Lori were offering book/movie rights as collateral for her bond early on in this case. I'm not sure if MM would fall for that.

With Covid, we have become extremely liberal with allowing attorneys and clients phone conferences. So, I am trying to figure out why MM is going to see LVD in person almost daily.

MM has raised doubts about the video/audio procedures in jail multiple times, so perhaps he's paranoid about his communication with Lori being recorded. Also, there are likely several documents (part of evidence) that she needs to read.

 

[indicolite22]

What I had not realized, or completely missed, was that their was another nephew that had been adopted.

Whose nephew? Adopted by who?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Whose nephew? Adopted by who?

I couldn't figure it out. IIRC (and someone here can perhaps have grasped better than I and state their recollection)... it was referenced when one of Charles' earlier wives was being interviewed. Since didn't have to do with Lori/the case, I don't think media has ever mentioned due to privacy?

I was drifting in/out sleepy mode while viewing last night... sorry I don't have more to offer but hoping that another here can verify/expound.

 

[indicolite22]

I couldn't figure it out. IIRC (and someone here can perhaps have grasped better than I and state their recollection)... it was referenced when one of Charles' earlier wives was being interviewed. Since didn't have to do with Lori/the case, I don't think media has ever mentioned due to privacy?

I was drifting in/out sleepy mode while viewing last night... sorry I don't have more to offer but hoping that another here can verify/expound.

Since Charles had no children with his first wife, perhaps one of his oldest two sons (with his second wife) was adopted? I now vaguely remember reading something before about another family adoption - will try to find a source.

ETA: I found a confirmation on the WTAF website (who is who section), which likely stems from custody battle documents between Charles and his second wife that the site owners legally obtained a while ago. According to this info, Charles' second son was his nephew prior to adoption.

 

[Laughing]

Honestly, I feel like no matter what the response to my statement is going to be, it'll be negative:
Nobody in this family is innocent.
If the grandparents were so concerned about JJ, why were they fighting at the last minute?
If Annie was so concerned about Tylee, why not contact people sooner or even police?

I certainly feel this sometimes -- but as other posters mentioned, we don't have the whole story. (Probably never will IMHO.)

A neighbor or relative may have called the school with concerns -- schools & school personnel cannot speak publicly so we just don't know if either Tylee or JJ was asked about what was going on or asked if they needed help.

Some people are able to keep quiet when that's best. We know that Cody Ryan spoke very publicly and very emotionally about his missing sister & brother. Mr. Ryan is careful & thoughtful -- we don't know what he did privately.

Calls to LE would probably be referred to the Juvenile Office -- and if so we're not going to hear anything and may not hear from that office at trial.

The biggest hole IMHO in the social safety net for Tylee & JJ IMHO was the local police in Arizona. Today, we all know that Charles Vallow was right.

We've watched him speak to officers outside the hotel/motel, not looking for a link. I understand that officers likely followed their department's protocol here, but do you think the outcome would have been different if a different set of officers -- perhaps female, perhaps trained for avoiding manipulation, perhaps trained for mental health issues -- had spoken with Lori? Separated Tylee from Lori for a few questions?

I certainly think so.

I expect that most family members are emotionally beating themselves up -- I should have called someone, I should have done something, I should have....

At the end of the day, it is only Lori & Chad who should have done something differently.

If they wanted to live child-free, family members would have taken those lovely young humans.

Heck, most of us would have taken those lovely young humans.

Lori & Chad are responsible, AFAIC, Lori & Chad together.

JMHO YMMV LRR.

 

[Kemug]

The mills of God grind slowly, but they grind exceeding small.

 

[mickey2942]

I certainly feel this sometimes -- but as other posters mentioned, we don't have the whole story. (Probably never will IMHO.)

A neighbor or relative may have called the school with concerns -- schools & school personnel cannot speak publicly so we just don't know if either Tylee or JJ was asked about what was going on or asked if they needed help.

Some people are able to keep quiet when that's best. We know that Cody Ryan spoke very publicly and very emotionally about his missing sister & brother. Mr. Ryan is careful & thoughtful -- we don't know what he did privately.

Calls to LE would probably be referred to the Juvenile Office -- and if so we're not going to hear anything and may not hear from that office at trial.

The biggest hole IMHO in the social safety net for Tylee & JJ IMHO was the local police in Arizona. Today, we all know that Charles Vallow was right.

We've watched him speak to officers outside the hotel/motel, not looking for a link. I understand that officers likely followed their department's protocol here, but do you think the outcome would have been different if a different set of officers -- perhaps female, perhaps trained for avoiding manipulation, perhaps trained for mental health issues -- had spoken with Lori? Separated Tylee from Lori for a few questions?

I certainly think so.

I expect that most family members are emotionally beating themselves up -- I should have called someone, I should have done something, I should have....

At the end of the day, it is only Lori & Chad who should have done something differently.

If they wanted to live child-free, family members would have taken those lovely young humans.

Heck, most of us would have taken those lovely young humans.

Lori & Chad are responsible, AFAIC, Lori & Chad together.

JMHO YMMV LRR.

Agreed. LVD may not have been the greatest Mother, but AFAIK, there was not evidence of severe neglect or abuse of the children. No one would have removed those children from her care, no matter how crazy she seemed. There was no reason to suspect that LVD would have done something so heinous. That the children were actually in mortal danger with LVD.

 

[indicolite22]

Agreed. LVD may not have been the greatest Mother, but AFAIK, there was not evidence of severe neglect or abuse of the children. No one would have removed those children from her care, no matter how crazy she seemed. There was no reason to suspect that LVD would have done something so heinous. That the children were actually in mortal danger with LVD.

Just three days before his murder, JJ's babysitter witnessed Lori showering him with affection after a tantrum. An observer would have no clue about what was to happen (or that one murder already took place).