Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #56

[Tom_Servo]

Why do you think MM is at the detention center so frequently?

He's chads fill in. Telling Lori how the world is on her side and their righteous calling is more important than ever.

Or...in her typical manipulative way, she's been making a play and he's enamored. She's convincing him to bust her out while professing her love and promising him a leading role in the 144K.

Yup, gotta be one of those two reasons. O_0

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Since Charles had no children with his first wife, perhaps one of his oldest two sons (with his second wife) was adopted? I now vaguely remember reading something before about another family adoption - will try to find a source.

ETA: I found a confirmation on the WTAF website (who is who section), which likely stems from custody battle documents between Charles and his second wife that the site owners legally obtained a while ago. According to this info, Charles' second son was his nephew prior to adoption.

Yes, that is exactly how I recalled it being said. I guess this has nothing to do with this case... privacy... moving on. Thanks for the verification of such that this is outside discussion more than bringing it up, verifying that it was indeed said, yet non-sleuthable/against TOS at Websleuths for more discussion to probe into.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Mrs. Isokawa has a theory that MM is spending all that time at the detention center because he is gathering material for a book.

Of course! Other books will come out of the woodwork too, but Means' will be the dominent.... Who else had such inside skinny...

 

[FullMinder]

ETA: How did the co-conspirators know there would be no autopsy for Tammy? What if the coroner insisted on one? Did they use something that wouldn't be detected routinely?

eek :-/ That's a troubling thought that I've been overlooking...

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I think the part about Joe's temper was in there primarily to explain why Annie was estranged from Joe until his death; and also maybe a little why Annie put the blame on Joe whilst ignoring Lori's flaws for several years.

Neither the guardian ad litem or evaluating social worker said they believed Joe had sexually abused Tylee OR Colby. They said Lori coached, brainwashed, and manipulated both kids into their statements.

The Dateline crew did a good job of gathering up and integrating lots of loose ends that we couldn't discuss before for lack of their being in MSM; which is great.

I agree. This is my assessment of Annie too. Like Melanie Gibb, Lori has a way of making other women "her best friend", and I think she worked on Annie too.

If and when sexual abuse charges are fabricated....... everyone has to go through such guilt trips, regarding what to believe and what not to believe. I felt it became a "disease" in one of my more distant family threads.... Made me stay away too.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes, Tammie's sister is on now. Tammie seemed like quite an amazing woman. She knew CD from high school?

I am glad that the FBI was able to check out the firepit, and correlate AC's cellphone data. I am still stunned by how impossibly dense CD and LVD were to bury the children in CD's yard. There is SO much space in that area of Idaho/Montana. Crazy.

The Fremont police didn't come off very good. TD reports a guy with a "paint gun" and less than two weeks later, she is dead?! No autopsy?!

omg, yes!! Remember way back when, when people, psychics, sleuths, metal detectors, vacationers...... were ALL combing the mountain and woods in that area!!!!!!! It was pretty wild...

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Honestly, I feel like no matter what the response to my statement is going to be, it'll be negative:
Nobody in this family is innocent.
If the grandparents were so concerned about JJ, why were they fighting at the last minute?
If Annie was so concerned about Tylee, why not contact people sooner or even police?

Lots of family traumas roll out in slow motion. Lori was a master at making things look right, and her reputation of being at temple every day probably protected that image even more than usual......

I agree that there should have and could have been lots of actions taken............ but the reality is that some things roll quietly, thought we here are compacting all the data from a past tense.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

He's chads fill in. Telling Lori how the world is on her side and their righteous calling is more important than ever.

Or...in her typical manipulative way, she's been making a play and he's enamored. She's convincing him to bust her out while professing her love and promising him a leading role in the 144K.

Yup, gotta be one of those two reasons. O_0

Yup, gotta be one of those two reasons. O_0

Hey, love your "eyes" on the case....

 

[Algo214]

RE: the family not doing enough.

I strongly disagree, I know the talk you are having is about the extended family but Charles did everything in his power to alert anyone that would listen about Lori, but nobody did.
If anyone didn't do enough, it was Gilbert PD that shrugged off that CRY for help.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

In the "coulda shoulda" category, I have always felt there was another missed opportunity. When Charles was so passionately pleading with LE about Lori's evils.... he probably could have included the evils she brought to Joe Ryan too. Doubling the evil might have made LE listen more.

But he didn't.

When we were all so sympathetic to Charles' appearance on those LE tapes, I still could not stop thinking about how he probably colluded with Lori to the max to make life living hell for Joe and his daughter Tylee. All the crazy moves, attempted businesses, hi-priced rental homes was all pretty messy, in my mind. And this was not just Lori, this was Charles too.

So he probably couldn't share too much regarding Joe with LE..... but I still believe it was a missed opportunity.

 

[indicolite22]

eek :-/ That's a troubling thought that I've been overlooking...

Or maybe they were just as naive about the autopsy as they were about nobody ever searching Chad's backyard.

I don't remember reading if Chad knew the coroner personally. Perhaps he thought he could manipulate her. Obviously she and the police officer present didn't find anything strange about Chad's account and his demeanor, or the way Tammy was found. Chad didn't care to find out why his (relatively young) wife suddenly died. IMO that was strange enough. He likely didn't try to sell his tale of Tammy having been ill for a while.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

eek :-/ That's a troubling thought that I've been overlooking...

Perhaps someone that had been in the "industry" as to burials / lateral industry of grave digging.. would keep up and have known such more than the normal folks as to laws for autopsies in that area? It differs from my area significantly MOO after looking up such.

Conditions for doing such, and what qualifications for those sin my area are a 180 from Rexburg. And would assume for many here.

 

[indicolite22]

RE: the family not doing enough.

I strongly disagree, I know the talk you are having is about the extended family but Charles did everything in his power to alert anyone that would listen about Lori, but nobody did.
If anyone didn't do enough, it was Gilbert PD that shrugged off that CRY for help.

Charles also took Lori back months after reporting her death threats to police, so... He believed that her crazy was fixed (she must have been convincing). If he had gone through with the divorce, maybe he would still be alive today. He predicted his own death yet he was not fully aware how lethal Lori was.

 

[indicolite22]

He's chads fill in. Telling Lori how the world is on her side and their righteous calling is more important than ever.

Or...in her typical manipulative way, she's been making a play and he's enamored. She's convincing him to bust her out while professing her love and promising him a leading role in the 144K.

Yup, gotta be one of those two reasons. O_0

I vote for the first option. Doubtful that he's enamored with her; he has his own family that he is proud of. He might be feeling sorry for Lori. Her manipulation likely worked on some level.

 

[indicolite22]

In the "coulda shoulda" category, I have always felt there was another missed opportunity. When Charles was so passionately pleading with LE about Lori's evils.... he probably could have included the evils she brought to Joe Ryan too. Doubling the evil might have made LE listen more.

But he didn't.

When we were all so sympathetic to Charles' appearance on those LE tapes, I still could not stop thinking about how he probably colluded with Lori to the max to make life living hell for Joe and his daughter Tylee. All the crazy moves, attempted businesses, hi-priced rental homes was all pretty messy, in my mind. And this was not just Lori, this was Charles too.

So he probably couldn't share too much regarding Joe with LE..... but I still believe it was a missed opportunity.

IMO Charles was likely convinced that Joe was a bad guy and that Lori was right in her custody battle. I wonder if he ever changed his mind about Joe. Charles was also fighting with his second wife in court. There are no angels in this story, but only one is a murderer...

 

[Ruminations]

I always thought the sister-in-law Chad spoke of being against him was his brother’s wife. Guess they both sister-in-laws had reason to be not happy with Chad.

Glad someone from Tammy’s family was able to be heard.

I am getting the feeling that Samantha and family concerns were known to LE before the welfare check for JJ. And one of the detectives that visited were aware of suspicions around her death. When Tammy's weird death intersected with Lori's shell game with JJ (and it turned out that he was not under any of the shells), the hinkyness of both cases increased.

Thinking about Tammy, Tylee, JJ and everyone harmed by Lori and Chad. I wish them peace.

 

[Ruminations]

IMO we can't make a judgement like that, I don't think.

Who doesn't have a relative that they have to step away from...because they love them but can't be part of what they are into?

Annie disagreed with Joe's abusive parenting, and she had good reason to be passionate about appropriate parenting AND expect that Joe agreed with her in principle but not behavior. Would she have been a better person to keep fighting with him?

(BTW, people are complicated. I think it is clear that both Lori and Joe were abusive parents, even if the details of the abuse are not ironed out. Who cares which detail is proven? Just because one detail isn't proven doesn't erase the abuse.)

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Of course! Other books will come out of the woodwork too, but Means' will be the dominent.... Who else had such inside skinny...

Too bad Chad can’t publish it for him. And Means will surely enforce the novel is double-spaced, right? JMO

 

[Forever Young]

Who doesn't have a relative that they have to step away from...because they love them but can't be part of what they are into?

Annie disagreed with Joe's abusive parenting, and she had good reason to be passionate about appropriate parenting AND expect that Joe agreed with her in principle but not behavior. Would she have been a better person to keep fighting with him?

(BTW, people are complicated. I think it is clear that both Lori and Joe were abusive parents, even if the details of the abuse are not ironed out. Who cares which detail is proven? Just because one detail isn't proven doesn't erase the abuse.)

Out of Lori's 5 husbands, she was married to Charles Vallow the longest. The documents obtained by WTAF concerning the custody hearings for both CV's sons with Cheryl and Tylee also point the finger at CV for allowing abuse in the home.

CV's ex-wives paint a different picture and we have only been privy to the very tips of the respective icebergs regarding both Joe Ryan's and Charles Vallow's behavior. Doesn't anyone else wonder how much Charles knew about the death of Joe Ryan?

 

[Forever Young]

well, just a small snippet of her update today said this “What does it mean? When you put all the pieces together, it COULD mean that Lori is unavailable for some reason. Could that be because she is ill or incapacitated? While I don’t want to “put the cart before the horse,” I think it’s possible.”.....I believe that’s what is being referred to here.

Thanks for reading the post...you picked up on what Lori Hellis thought might be happening.....I am not sure if I should repost it. It is just Lori Hellis opinion. I hope people just read what Lori Hellis said could possible be happening. That goes along with a rumor that was posted here a few days back, even though another post said LV is in general population. Just little clues maybe adding up...all JMOO.

Again Tricia approved Lori Hellis for WS per the podcast.

Lori Hellis has been a guest on WS podcast, as well as Awen Rees. IIRC, LH said that she thought the reason that the change of venue motion was vacated was possibly because both sides agreed to a change of venue.

If a change of venue has been granted, wouldn't the prisoners eventually be transferred to a place within that venue?