Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #61

[fred&edna]

I thought the recording released by True Crime Underground sounded like it was just a little higher speed. My ex, the guitar player, told me once that this is the first thing that happens with a recording - the speed is messed with. Not that I think that was done on purpose. It could just be due to YouTube settings, or compression of the file. I notice this a lot on old records that are remastered and transferred to digital files - compression.

I do think adrenaline was a major factor in the whole scheme of this cult, playing on the fight or flight response. The up, the down, the resolution. People can get addicted to that feeling. So yes, MG sounded excited, but also had a long story to tell, in a short amount of time. She was still heavily under the influence of the cult, afraid to think that anything could possibly be wrong with them and their "visions".

Maybe some part of her realized that she was lucky to be alive, herself; lucky that her own husband and kids were still alive. Lucky that it wasn't her who got involved with Chad Daybell or married Alex Cox.

I think to myself of all the times that my own narrow escape prompted not tears, but hysterical laughter! It could have been so much worse and the fact that it didn't happen now causes me to laugh, instead of the crying that would have happened had I not been so "lucky". "Some kind" of emotion, that really isn't happy and really isn't sad, but needs to be released. Maybe it is just relief.

I thought SD sounded a little excited, too, but MG, at this point, had already told her story to LE. Law enforcement tends to sound "neutral" upon hearing a story. I think MG was looking for validation (you did the right thing, I understand your confusion) from SD, as did SD when she shared the recording with several Youtubers before going to LE herself (you did the right thing in covertly recording this, you are right, MG's participation is questionable).

I do think we all need to keep our eyes on the goal of a guilty verdict for Chad and Lori, and ask ourselves who is the culpable party here, and who should be taken down, as far as this recording goes.

What good will it do discredit MG as a witness for the State? Who would like to see that happen? What good does it do to pile the blame on a Youtuber trying to get the scoop, or SD for initially sharing abroad what should have gone straight to LE?

There is only ONE person again muddying the water by trying to cast blame on anyone but theirself, and ONE person who should be kicked off this case for leaking what was sealed and confidential discovery. Classic narcissistic gaslighting. IMO

You get no quarrel from me. You said a lot, to which I agree 'Just terrible that often deals are made with questionable people to get the ultimate goal (we see it often here at WS) and makes me cranky!

I just wish C & L would opt for guilty pleas. 'Save us all some time, money and headache.

 

[Ruminations]

You get no quarrel from me. You said a lot, to which I agree 'Just terrible that often deals are made with questionable people to get the ultimate goal (we see it often here at WS) and makes me cranky!

I just wish C & L would opt for guilty pleas. 'Save us all some time, money and headache.

I don’t know of any evidence that Gibb has a special deal. I don’t know of any evidence that she committed a crime or that she knew of anybody committing the most serious crimes in advance. (She probably knew it was legally wrong to help someone get around an order of protection. But I don’t think she knew yet that it was morally wrong.)

So, IMO this is not an example of a criminal person getting a special deal. I don’t see what she could be charged with-save for helping violate a protective order.

In the opinion of many others, she should be charged, too. I respect that.

Gibb, like most others who are suspected of or confirmed to have gotten some deal... is questionable, of course. Who do you expect would be in the inner circle of a criminal. They would have to be people who need something so badly, they don’t realistically assess the situation (I think this applies to Gibb) or they want something so badly that they are willing to commit crimes to get it, and they become partners or sidekicks in crime.

Most human witnesses to despicable criminal acts are going to be victims, strangers observing an isolated behavior, so needy in some non-criminal way that blinders go up, or co-criminals. Strangers are generally useless for motive and state of mind information. So that leaves victims, collaborators, and misguided “friends” with blinders on as substantial witnesses.

Usually, when a prosecution makes use of a non-victim witness who has a lot of insight into a perpetrator, it is going to a questionable person. Who else is going to get up close and personal?

 

[887sMtreme]

Children are amazingly faithful to abusive parents. And continue to see the "good", rather than the "bad". Abusers also want to keep their "prey" around, so they cycle from cruel and abusive, to supportive and loving. The abused want to believe that the "wonderful" person will stay around, if the abused is "good enough". Yeah, we know how that works...and very few of the abused believe that the abuser will actually KILL them, even with evidence.

The cycle of abuse so often follows this very pattern. Victims can even goad the abuser into an outburst just to get to the “hearts and flowers” phase, where they get a little bit of love.

 

[Boxer]

the money, and abuse of Tylee just makes me sick.

Given her
fathers car, sort of, and money for fast food.

 

[fred&edna]

I don’t know of any evidence that Gibb has a special deal. I don’t know of any evidence that she committed a crime or that she knew of anybody committing the most serious crimes in advance. (She probably knew it was legally wrong to help someone get around an order of protection. But I don’t think she knew yet that it was morally wrong.)

So, IMO this is not an example of a criminal person getting a special deal. I don’t see what she could be charged with-save for helping violate a protective order.

In the opinion of many others, she should be charged, too. I respect that.

Gibb, like most others who are suspected of or confirmed to have gotten some deal... is questionable, of course. Who do you expect would be in the inner circle of a criminal. They would have to be people who need something so badly, they don’t realistically assess the situation (I think this applies to Gibb) or they want something so badly that they are willing to commit crimes to get it, and they become partners or sidekicks in crime.

Most human witnesses to despicable criminal acts are going to be victims, strangers observing an isolated behavior, so needy in some non-criminal way that blinders go up, or co-criminals. Strangers are generally useless for motive and state of mind information. So that leaves victims, collaborators, and misguided “friends” with blinders on as substantial witnesses.

Usually, when a prosecution makes use of a non-victim witness who has a lot of insight into a perpetrator, it is going to a questionable person. Who else is going to get up close and personal?

Duped beyond morality... I suppose that's one way of describing her.

JMO but I can't cheer for nor celebrate her testimony. She was between a rock and hard place.

 

[Tortoise]

I do think we all need to keep our eyes on the goal of a guilty verdict for Chad and Lori, and ask ourselves who is the culpable party here, and who should be taken down, as far as this recording goes.

What good will it do discredit MG as a witness for the State? Who would like to see that happen? What good does it do to pile the blame on a Youtuber trying to get the scoop, or SD for initially sharing abroad what should have gone straight to LE?

There is only ONE person again muddying the water by trying to cast blame on anyone but theirself, and ONE person who should be kicked off this case for leaking what was sealed and confidential discovery. Classic narcissistic gaslighting. IMO

<RSBM>

The following is all my opinion.

I agree we need to keep our eyes on who are the culpable parties. And there are varying degrees of culpability, which is what needs to be established to determine who should be charged with committing and/or aiding and abetting several murders and an attempted murder. The victims deserve that. Some of those murders and attempted murders might not have happened if those in the know had cared, acted like responsible human beings, and acted to alert law enforcement. The aiders and abetters also have blood on their hands, unless they had mental impairments which discharges their culpability. I am not saying that classification of aiding and abetting applies to MG but it might, if properly examined. Society is not well served by protecting the people who were so placed to have prevented this carnage, even if their evidence is needed. The judge and jury can decide if their cooperation and assistance after the fact was vital to the whole case proceeding, and if it is complete and truthful, or is limited and self-serving, and if remorse is a factor.

I keep seeing mention of MG being a star witness for the state. I agree she was in the thick of things. Can anyone point out what exactly she has said that nails Chad and Lori to the mast? Without which there would be no other evidence? Because I truly am missing it. Her statements to police in December 2019 were not given on condition of use immunity. She also testified at the preliminary hearing. She also went on Dateline and recorded an interview with EIN. This is evidence that can be used in the trials even if she becomes hostile and pleads the 5th.

As far as I am concerned there is very evident dishonesty, a lot of it, which leads to some very obvious questions, and that is coming out whether we discuss it or not. Even if she is discredited I don't see it even scratching the surface of the cases against Chad and Lori. I see a very deliberate playing of her hand and someone who ran to the police only when the families involved were devastated, bodies were already in the ground, and when she might be in trouble and her own safety was threatened because of what she knew. I don't see mental deficiency here, or gullibility - I see attempts to convince others of that, lots of rational questions that were asked throughout, and looking the other way. I do believe all these lives could have been saved, even Charles's.

All MOO

I have missed the circumstances of this recording being leaked. Could you point me to where I can read about or learn more about these circumstances please. Sorry if it's right here in this thread and I've missed it, I do try to read most posts but might have missed this.

 

[dizzychick]

I pretty much agree with this. I see MG as gullible, but not to the point where she would accept anyone's death.

From the recorded phone conversation, it's apparent to me (JMOO) that MG was not privy to the planning or details surrounding the deaths. That seems to have been kept to Chad, Lori, Alex and, perhaps ZP.

Should MG have sensed something was amiss before she did? I don't know. Hindsight is always 20:20 but it's a different story when it's happening and you have no clue a friend could do something so horrific.

At this point, I don't think MG was complicit. If more information comes forth, my opinion could change, of course.

I am just now listening to the leaked phone call, does anyone know how this call got released?

 

[indicolite22]

I am just now listening to the leaked phone call, does anyone know how this call got released?

I'm not sure how we can bring up the circumstances without breaking the WS rules because it all played out on SM and was not in MSM.

 

[Dowagee]

I'm not sure how we can bring up the circumstances without breaking the WS rules because it all played out on SM and was not in MSM.

But can we direct them to another source? Lauren and John Matthias from
Hidden true crime has a lot of good podcasts related to the Daybell case.

 

[indicolite22]

But can we direct them to another source? Lauren and John Matthias from
Hidden true crime has a lot of good podcasts related to the Daybell case.

Other sources need to be approved on WS first (either entire channels or singular videos).

 

[dizzychick]

Could the defense have wanted that phone call made public to show Lori's state of mind?

 

[Forever Young]

Could the defense have wanted that phone call made public to show Lori's state of mind?

IMO, it would be hearsay. Maybe MG's state of mind. There is speculation as to whether it could be admitted as evidence because it was illegally recorded in a state where both parties must agree to the recording. MG did not consent to have the phone call recorded. SD's state could bring a felony charge, supposedly.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Other sources need to be approved on WS first (either entire channels or singular videos).

Hidden True Crime has been approved by WS.
I just got a message from SillyBilly.

 

[kshultz06082]

I thought the recording released by True Crime Underground sounded like it was just a little higher speed. My ex, the guitar player, told me once that this is the first thing that happens with a recording - the speed is messed with. Not that I think that was done on purpose. It could just be due to YouTube settings, or compression of the file. I notice this a lot on old records that are remastered and transferred to digital files - compression.

I do think adrenaline was a major factor in the whole scheme of this cult, playing on the fight or flight response. The up, the down, the resolution. People can get addicted to that feeling. So yes, MG sounded excited, but also had a long story to tell, in a short amount of time. She was still heavily under the influence of the cult, afraid to think that anything could possibly be wrong with them and their "visions".

Maybe some part of her realized that she was lucky to be alive, herself; lucky that her own husband and kids were still alive. Lucky that it wasn't her who got involved with Chad Daybell or married Alex Cox.

I think to myself of all the times that my own narrow escape prompted not tears, but hysterical laughter! It could have been so much worse and the fact that it didn't happen now causes me to laugh, instead of the crying that would have happened had I not been so "lucky". "Some kind" of emotion, that really isn't happy and really isn't sad, but needs to be released. Maybe it is just relief.

I thought SD sounded a little excited, too, but MG, at this point, had already told her story to LE. Law enforcement tends to sound "neutral" upon hearing a story. I think MG was looking for validation (you did the right thing, I understand your confusion) from SD, as did SD when she shared the recording with several Youtubers before going to LE herself (you did the right thing in covertly recording this, you are right, MG's participation is questionable).

I do think we all need to keep our eyes on the goal of a guilty verdict for Chad and Lori, and ask ourselves who is the culpable party here, and who should be taken down, as far as this recording goes.

What good will it do discredit MG as a witness for the State? Who would like to see that happen? What good does it do to pile the blame on a Youtuber trying to get the scoop, or SD for initially sharing abroad what should have gone straight to LE?

There is only ONE person again muddying the water by trying to cast blame on anyone but theirself, and ONE person who should be kicked off this case for leaking what was sealed and confidential discovery. Classic narcissistic gaslighting. IMO

The last paragraph.... I can't figure out who it refers to... who leaked sealed confidential discovery? What did the leaked items consist of?

 

[Love Never Fails]

The last paragraph.... I can't figure out who it refers to... who leaked sealed confidential discovery? What did the leaked items consist of?

Ditto.

So who is the ONE in that last paragraph?
Why the mystery?

 

[Satchie]

IMO, it would be hearsay. Maybe MG's state of mind. There is speculation as to whether it could be admitted as evidence because it was illegally recorded in a state where both parties must agree to the recording. MG did not consent to have the phone call recorded. SD's state could bring a felony charge, supposedly.

Why would it be admitted as evidence, though? Presumably MG will take the stand and reveal the exact same information, but in a more coherent, less rushed way, so that her words can't be twisted or taken out of context. And the religious reflections removed.

Perhaps it will be used to prove she used the phrase 'drug baby', rather than "a child with severe developmental symptoms as a result of being born with
neonatal abstinence syndrome". Also, she said of an old friend who had recently died "Bless his heart", rather than than trash talking a recently deceased personal friend and member of her church.

I'm sure no one hates her more than LV, since she was the trusted and loyal friend who blew the whistle on them.

 

[indicolite22]

Why would it be admitted as evidence, though? Presumably MG will take the stand and reveal the exact same information, but in a more coherent, less rushed way, so that her words can't be twisted or taken out of context. And the religious reflections removed.

Perhaps it will be used to prove she used the phrase 'drug baby', rather than "a child with severe developmental symptoms as a result of being born with
neonatal abstinence syndrome". Also, she said of an old friend who had recently died "Bless his heart", rather than than trash talking a recently deceased personal friend and member of her church.

I'm sure no one hates her more than LV, since she was the trusted and loyal friend who blew the whistle on them.

BBM. If the recording wasn't legally produced then it is inadmissible evidence. Two-party consent states require both ends of the conversation to agree to being recorded. Unlike MG's recording of Chad and Lori, which was made in a one-party consent state.

 

[indicolite22]

Ditto.

So who is the ONE in that last paragraph?
Why the mystery?

It takes two people to leak info: one with access to information and another with a public voice. Who has access to discovery? Who is speaking publicly about the case?

 

[indicolite22]

https://twitter.com/jlumfox10/status/1419726309031235608

DEADLINE LOOMS: Co-lead prosecutors Rob Wood and Lindsey Blake have until 8/8/21 to seek the death penalty in case against Chad Daybell. He was indicted for murder in the deaths of JJ Vallow, Tylee Ryan and Tammy Daybell on 5/24.

 

[kshultz06082]

It takes two people to leak info: one with access to information and another with a public voice. Who has access to discovery? Who is speaking publicly about the case?

I truly do not know who you are referring to.