Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

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  • #681
No, not bunk at all. Mormons do believe in three levels of heaven plus outer darkness.

Chapter and Verse. Quote any reference, any at all, of a level three dark spirit.

Personally, I am an atheist. But I am not ignorant of the LDS beliefs of those that I live amongst, and generally admire. So please, if you can, provide an authoritative reference to level three dark spirits.

If it helps you to understand my comments, on my to work each morning I pass within a few blocks of both Chad's and Tammy's parents, and various other relatives.
 
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  • #682
  • #683
  • #684
Hi txl, and Welcome to Websleuths.

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An explanation of how to become a VI can be found here.

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Thank you, but no.

Tammy was a wonderful, loving, giving person. I have no idea how she was caught up in all of this mess, but is saddens me.
 
  • #685
It was Alec Pope, a BYU Radio reporter, who said they might dig but he later said the ground was never broken. I posted his tweets in the media thread:
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION
Thanks! I was looking to see if the Sheriff said anything in his remarks on this topic but he didn't. Guess we will have to wait and see if there is any more activity at the Daybell residence in Salem, ID.
 
  • #686
Chapter and Verse. Quote any reference, any at all, of a level three dark spirit.

Personally, I am an atheist. But I am not ignorant of the LDS beliefs of those that I live amongst, and generally admire. So please, if you can, provide an authoritative reference to level three dark spirits.

If it helps you to understand my comments, on my to work each morning I pass within a few blocks of both Chad and Tammy parents, and various other relatives.

This appears to be a reading comprehension issue. Read the original post that you called bunk again. Lori is said to have used that term. The poster was trying to figure out what that meant or where the concept was coming from. They theorized that Lori had taken the Mormon belief of the three degrees of glory aka three levels of heaven and thrown her own twist into it. They weren't saying that the Mormon belief was that, but that the Mormon belief might have been the spring board for Lori to dream this up on her own.
 
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  • #687
  • #688
This is what gets me - we see in cases all the time where family members will stick by their criminal parents/children/etc. and never believe the claims against them. But Tammy was also their mom. Where is the loyalty to her in all of this? And even if they believe their father is being unjustly framed, what about these missing kids? How do you make light of such a situation? The sheer number of people connected to Lori & Chad who are either following them, mocking the case, or otherwise actively impeding the investigation is mind boggling.
Agree, and this is disturbing me as well.

I think they're grieving their mother's loss, right? I don't want to think otherwise, believe me. Yet if my mother was thought to have been murdered and her body exhumed, and now LE and the FBI have warrants to check the house and property for evidence, does bells not ring in those two children's heads, that this is real, their mother was murdered? I could see one kid being in denial, but both? They're adults, too- not young kids or teens.

On top of that, dear old Dad goes off to Hawaii after his wife's death and returns a married man, not even two weeks after the poor woman was buried. Nothing suspicious about that, either? No anger towards Dad? No loyalty to Mom- he just randomly marries a woman- did they even know Lori?

They're well aware that Lori's kids are missing- no concern for them, seeing that it appears that the last two people to have seen them alive, is Lori and their father?

Then Dad tells them he will stay in touch with them, providing they don't talk to LE? Wouldn't that be about five or six red flags that should have been raised by now, with all the deaths between Lori's ex husbands, her brother, and Tammy? We still don't know if the kids are alive?

They know as much as we do, yet strangers are more concerned about this dangerous situation then Tammy's own family?

<modsnip: There is no MSM link or MSM confirmation that individual was the daughter> I would think that possibly, they might be afraid for their father's life, the kids lives, or even their own, while Lori is hiding out with their father. Yet seeing her actions today, hearing that the son that lives there still wouldn't allow LE or the FBI to come in until they showed the warrants and threatened to knock the door down, has me a bit concerned here. Did dear old Dad have them brainwashed, too, and maybe they think Tammy's living happily ever after on a new planet? Actions speak louder than words, and their actions today, at least, are worrisome.
 
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  • #689
Thank you, but no.

Tammy was a wonderful, loving, giving person. I have no idea how she was caught up in all of this mess, but is saddens me.
Chad is how she gets caught up in all this mess. If it weren't for Chad and the nonsense he helped create there is a chance that Tammy would be alive right now.
 
  • #690
...the problem is trying to understand Chad and Lori's views in an LDS context...
I'm not LDS and frankly don't have much respect for the LDS church. But these people are insane and I would not apply that to mainstream LDS doctrine.

Based on my incomplete/ignorant understanding:
- LDS members prepare for hardship because they came from pioneer families and actually endured periods of hardship in their community history. They are not preparing only for the second coming. They value self-reliance which I do as well!
- LDS anticipate the second coming of Christ but so do most Christian denominations to some extent
- LDS members are expected to comply with civil law and respect civil authorities

I could be wrong about all that but I've never found the typical Mormon prepping behavior to be irrational. But L and C and their associates have taken things to a new and ridiculous level. They should realize if they are reading this that anyone who know the whereabouts of the kids and does not report immediately could get the death penalty. Anyone who knows the whereabouts of Lori and Chad without reporting is committing a sin in the church.

Mainstream LDS is a belief system which, while I do not agree with, is as rational as other belief systems that rely on untestable faith. What these criminals are pursuing is completely irrational!
 
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  • #691
This appears to be a reading comprehension issue. Read the original post that you called bunk again. Lori is said to have used that term. The poster was trying to figure out what that meant or where the concept was coming from. They theorized that Lori had taken the Mormon belief of the three degrees of glory aka three levels of heaven and thrown her own twist into it. The weren't saying that the Mormon belief was that, but that the Mormon belief might have been the spring board for Lori to dream this up on her own.

Good grief. I have posts deleted because I am curious, but it is OK to suggest that I am illiterate or unable to comprehend English because some poster here invents a theory, bases it on a theology that he/she likely does not understand, attributes it to Lori without evidence, and that is OK?
 
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  • #692
Good grief. I have posts deleted because I am curious, but it is OK to suggest that I am illiterate or unable to comprehend English because some poster here invents a theory, attributes it to Lori without evidence, and that is OK?

Possibly my response will get deleted too. But nowhere do I say that you're illiterate. I do say that you didn't understand the post you were responding to and that lack of understanding was evident from your comment about it. The claims YOU were making about what it said, were not what it said.

EDA: And TBH, I don't remember the post that talked about Lori's theory, but I believe it was referring to a report in the media that she had said that. It wasn't something someone here dreamed up.
 
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  • #693
  • #694
Good grief. I have posts deleted because I am curious, but it is OK to suggest that I am illiterate or unable to comprehend English because some poster here invents a theory, bases it on a theology that he/sh likely does not understand, attributes it to Lori without evidence, and that is OK?
I notice that you are very defensive of Lori. Do you know her?
 
  • #695
I wonder if the ground is frozen and a shovel just wouldn't go through.
Yes, its basically like cement at this point which is why I was curious if they were going to attempt digging it up.
 
  • #696
No, I do not know Lori. No, I am not defending Lori, nor am I "very defensive" of Lori. I have zero interest in Lori or Chad.

Lori is clearly mentally ill. She needs treatment.
 
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  • #697
Doubtful Maxxer500 knows me personally. From what I gather, we are a generation apart.
I left no clues. I said it outright. Tammy was a happy, loving, giving person. Those of that knew her are shocked, saddened, and trying to comprehend her death.

I'm quoting this post just to grab your attention, as it seems you would like to contact me or at least ask me some questions. I don't need to know who you are, what relation you have to anyone, or whose house you pass on the way to work. If you have information to give, please consider taking the appropriate steps towards becoming a Verified Insider (VI) and possibly even contacting Law Enforcement (LE).

I'm open to answering questions you may have for me. It seems that someone's posts here on Websleuths has struck a nerve, and I'd like to talk and make sure everything is okay. My goal is to ensure that facts are being properly respected, and if that means pointing out false information in any posts I wholly support that. If this conversation needs to happen in Personal Messages (PMs) then feel free to reach out.

Websleuths Staff, as long as the user I'm quoting responds in a respectful manner and is reasonably within the TOS I ask that you leave any of their responses to me up. Having messages in a public conversation disappear tends to make things more confusing than they have to be.
 
  • #698
<modsnip: quoted post was modsnipped> I would think that possibly, they might be afraid for their father's life, the kids lives, or even their own, while Lori is hiding out with their father. Yet seeing her actions today, hearing that the son that lives there still wouldn't allow LE or the FBI to come in until they showed the warrants and threatened to knock the door down, has me a bit concerned here.

I'd offer a different take. As mentioned before I grew up in a rural community and it was largely Mormon though we weren't. There is a certain naivete and insophistication. I don't mean that as an insult, just that the daughter may have been expressing personal annoyance at te reporter and displaced frustration at the situation.

They have no mother. Can you really blame them for doubting their father is so different from who they know?

And frankly, I would never personally consent to a warrantless search so that part I applaud them on. There are legal reasons for this that a lawyer can explain but basically a warrantless search is an open invitation while a warranted search is specific in most cases.
 
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  • #699
I wonder if the ground is frozen and a shovel just wouldn't go through.

IDK. They seemed to be looking for something in the snow. They were moving the snow around and sifting through it with rakes. Watch the youtube video of the search I posted up thread.
 
  • #700
Good grief. I have posts deleted because I am curious, but it is OK to suggest that I am illiterate or unable to comprehend English because some poster here invents a theory, bases it on a theology that he/sh likely does not understand, attributes it to Lori without evidence, and that is OK?
For what its worth I am curious about Tammy as she seemed to be a religious, vibrant and active person and a devoted mother who loved her family. Do you believe that she knew about what might have been Chad's double life?

I also wonder if Tammy subscribed to the beliefs that Chad espoused in his books and which were so so attractive to Lori? Or, did Chad essentially live a double life that his wife and family knew nothing about? On one hand he held a leadership role in his local ward and then on the other hand he was active online with his podcasts where people paid a monthly fee for access?

For lack of a better word you might called him a "Masked Morman" as he certainly seemed to be 2 different people!

MOO
 
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