Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

[Tortoise]

I could see Chad and Lori going to Missouri, that would make a lot of sense.

Good - they've given LE a signpost and it's not one they can realistically change, with their beliefs.

 

[Twix20]

In relation to the comments made about Septemeber 23rd, I found this comment made by Chad from his blog. It's concerning his communications with one of Tammy's deceased relatives.

Here's the link:
16- Paving the way to Paradise | cdaybell.com

 

[CSIDreamer]

Dbm

 

[Twix20]

Also another interesting comment made by Chad, in regards to his character.

17- Writing “The Great Gathering” | cdaybell.com

 

[Tortoise]

I have met a lot of folks who have active psychosis, and so much of it is related to religious beliefs. I have seen some really crazy stuff, nothing I can disclose here, confidentiality and all that...

How interesting it would be if Lori and Chad actually have a dual psychosis. A shared belief, usually there is one person who is deeper into the psychosis, but seduces another person into the same delusional thinking.

Yes, I'm still catching up so apologies if it's already been discussed since - I believe it can be referred to as folie a deux.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I agree with this. There has been a lot of digging into how the LDS Church or membership might be involved. This is despite us seeing details that suggest that Chad, Lori, and anyone who might be helping them do not respect key LDS beliefs (check out articles 12 and 13 from the Articles of Faith, for example) or LDS Officials. I am not sure why such details have been disregarded, but I feel our investigation into religious groups would be better directed towards AVOW. Chad and Lori have some deep ties in AVOW, and AVOW seems to be our best bet right now at finding anyone who might be helping to hide the missing kids.

I appreciate all the work everyone here puts in, I'm just a little confused why we're still so focused on the mainstream LDS Church.

Whether we like it or not, it's just the nature of WS and people in general to discuss things over and over. Being a true crime site, posters (well most) here are detail oriented, analytical, and go over everything with a fine tooth comb. A minor detail can spark 4 pages of discussion. We all get tired of various things in each particular discussion, but that's just how it goes. Jmo

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Whether we like it or not, it's just the nature of WS and people in general to discuss things over and over. Being a true crime site, posters (well most) here are detail oriented, analytical, and go over everything with a fine tooth comb. A minor detail can spark 4 pages of discussion. We all get tired of various things in each particular discussion, but that's just how it goes. Jmo

We also need to keep in mind that a lot of posters don't know much about the LDS church. While it's not directly related, it's helpful to know the basics of their beliefs and what the church community is like to understand just how far out in left field Chad and Lori's beliefs are, as well as to understand how the culture and the perceptions of the community (of members and outsiders both) may have facilitated (or not) their crimes. If this were in an Amish community we would undoubtedly be discussing the culture and history of the Amish.

FWIW, the LDS people I've known have all been wonderful.

 

[Tortoise]

The sept 23 date seems significant for numerous reasons. It's the date JJ is last seen and the date Valentina and Devin K Hansen last hear from Chad. It's also in the title of a youtube video in Alex Cox's new wife's playlist, vaguely talking about the 2nd coming of Christ. While I know the wife isnt a POI others have linked to where you can find her name. I think its only relevant here to shed some further light with the recent documentation questioning Lori's mental health specifically concerning her delusions about being part of Christ's return. There seems to be a lot of ritual thinking going on here, first with the sept 23 date and then with the three sets of quick marriages, two of them being in the same place, one day apart. Can anyone shed more light on the sept 23 numerology theory that might be taking place here? The youtube video specifically says its not trying to refer to the date of the rapture, but then makes rambling points that the date is still very important, with biblical references. If Lori was having religious delusions described in the fox article, what might sept 23 mean to her? Would that give any hint to where she might have taken them?

Just posting to point out that Sept 24th is Tylee's birthday. Probably discussed many times over, but I haven't read all the earlier threads/posts. So with the 23rd being the last time JJ is seen, it might be that whatever happened to JJ happened on Tylee's birthday, the following day, and it is that date which has significance. I can't think what though, but all I know is I'm suspicious of coincidences. She wouldn't have been 18 for another year, otherwise I might have thought it was relevant to her becoming an adult.

 

[j55stand]

So, Charles and Lori were pretty much apart much earlier than I thought. @Gardener1850 maybe something for your timeline.

Documents: Lori Vallow claims she was 'god preparing for second coming of Christ'

Charles' son helped Charles move from Arizona to Texas in March 2018, when Lori had changed.​

April 2019 is when Charles moved to Houston.

 

[Lusitana]

There are only two KIDS involved in this case, which are Tylee and JJ. And they are missing. I honestly don't feel sorry for anyone else (besides the few people that are actually sane and understand that this whole mess is WRONG). Grieving is hard, really hard, but doesn't excuse anything and everything. I'm sorry but, no matter how manipulated one might have been, there comes a time when the only option is to wake up and do the right thing. I would like to thank our VI for being so, so, so patient and for not losing their mind, this has to be really hard. I'm so sorry.

 

[Trask]

So, Charles and Lori were pretty much apart much earlier than I thought. @Gardener1850 maybe something for your timeline.

Documents: Lori Vallow claims she was 'god preparing for second coming of Christ'

Charles' son helped Charles move from Arizona to Texas in March 2018, when Lori had changed.​

Hmmm... Only a month before Joe Ryan's death in Apr 2018.

I think this might be a typo on the year. According to the GH interview with JJ's grandparents, Charles moved to Houston in March of 2019. Lori left in January 2019, a day after draining the joint bank account. Justin Lum at Fox 10 Phoenix has several stories that broke last night giving a pretty good timeline of events including a telephone interview with one of Charles' adult sons who said he helped his dad move in March 2019.

There are 3 video stories on this page worth watching: Documents: Lori Vallow claims she was 'god preparing for second coming of Christ'

This link shows some of the divorce documents. The second document in the thread is interesting because Charles was able to obtain an involuntary 72 hour mental health hold on Lori if she made contact with the police but let it expire.
Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter

 

[afitzy]

In relation to the comments made about Septemeber 23rd, I found this comment made by Chad from his blog. It's concerning his communications with one of Tammy's deceased relatives.

Here's the link:
16- Paving the way to Paradise | cdaybell.com

I'm struggling to understand what Tammy and her group were doing at the Temple regarding submitting these names of deceased people. Supposedly this group submitted over 100,000 names of deceased people I believe to be rebaptized. Is this part of mainstream LDS doctrine? If someone could explain this it would be appreciated as it seems that this was an active effort and involved a group of people too as it was very administratively oriented. Just trying to understand why Tammy spent so much time on this large project and if it was at all tied to Chad's beliefs and books etc. Thank you.

 

[CSIDreamer]

This "cult" is really odd to me. The players we know about don't seem too interested in dragging their children along with them. They seem more interested in finding various ways to leave them behind.

In my opinion, cults need to grow to survive. And they use children to do that.

Granted, for all we know they fled to an area they've already established ahead of time.

I'm not sure of Melani's status but if you count her, there's a minimum of 11 children plus grandchildren abandoned, missing, or worse.

JMO

 

[155etta]

She had even more husbands than we thought.

 

[Steelslady]

Interesting comment by KR at Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix.

I hope Lori's family is beginning to see her true colors.

Yes, that is Colby's wife- she has been posting all over social media and is devastated by all of this- she is genuinely concerned about the kids. Gives me an insight as to how hard this is for him, too.

 

[alter idem]

I'm struggling to understand what Tammy and her group were doing at the Temple regarding submitting these names of deceased people. Supposedly this group submitted over 100,000 names of deceased people I believe to be rebaptized. Is this part of mainstream LDS doctrine? If someone could explain this it would be appreciated as it seems that this was an active effort and involved a group of people too as it was very administratively oriented. Just trying to understand why Tammy spent so much time on this large project and if it was at all tied to Chad's beliefs and books etc. Thank you.

In the lds faith we believe in performing ordinance work, such as baptism, for those who died without having the opportunity in this life. The person can choose to accept the work or reject it, Tammy was going genealogy work, which is common for mainstream lds, to identify ancestors to then perform ordinances for them, a noble pastime. But Chad is manipulative, using a spiritual visit from a dead relative to guilt tammy into giving up her computer game that he didn't like her playing. I think it's an example of his selfish, manipulative nature moo. He's sounds controlling. I hope my explanation helps, if not you can look for more detailed explanation online.

 

[Steelslady]

dbm

 

[afitzy]

I agree with this. There has been a lot of digging into how the LDS Church or membership might be involved. This is despite us seeing details that suggest that Chad, Lori, and anyone who might be helping them do not respect key LDS beliefs (check out articles 12 and 13 from the Articles of Faith, for example) or LDS Officials. I am not sure why such details have been disregarded, but I feel our investigation into religious groups would be better directed towards AVOW. Chad and Lori have some deep ties in AVOW, and AVOW seems to be our best bet right now at finding anyone who might be helping to hide the missing kids.

I appreciate all the work everyone here puts in, I'm just a little confused why we're still so focused on the mainstream LDS Church.

@Maxxer500, I completely agree with your theory that AVOW is the most productive path right now to understanding where Chad/Lori and possibly the 2 missing children might be located. Thanks for keeping us on a clear path as these topics are new for many folks here!

Just speaking for myself I have to admit to being confused and fascinated by what seems to be 'double world' of CD. On the one hand he holds a leadership position in his Ward and is quite involved, has a devout wife of many years who is also involved in the Church doing her rebaptizing work and CD and TD have a business model for the publishing business geared by all accounts to LDS members (or is it? IDK? - could this have been a bone of contention in the marriage?).

BUT, on the other hand we see the CD AVOW involvement (we don't know for sure if TD or any of the Daybell children or CD Atty are involved with AVOW), publishing for Julie Rowe and others of her ilk (even though CD distanced himself after Julie Rowe was ex-ed from LDS) and the podcasts behind the paywall that as you and others clearly say are discussing topics that are NOT consistent with mainstream LDS teachings.

There is something possibly also about CD distancing himself from Julie Rowe that might bear more scrutiny IMO as in her podcasts Julie seemed a bit bothered by this distancing IMO. But I wonder also if CD distanced himself due to possible input from TD or because he wanted to maintain the public persona of being mainstream LDS as a possible cover for his other beliefs that in reality might very closely align with those of Julie Rowe. IDK, its speculation on my part for sure but CD published I believe 4 books for Julie and knew her over the course of years. But, in learning more about the folk CD surrounded himself with via AVOW it is clear, as you say, that he was not mainstream LDS by any stretch! IMO he was a man leading a complicated life and wore a mask for most of the people in his day to day life.

From what others here have said it appears that CD might have also hid part of his life from his wife and his 5 children. Yet, CD was well known it appears to the group surrounding Julie Rowe and his end of life/world teachings obviously had great appeal to Lori and her niece.

The Daybell children in supporting their father also have me scratching my head as to whether they even acknowledge the CD connection to AVOW and Lori? Ditto on this sentiment regarding Lori Cox Vallow parents and siblings.

Its been quite upsetting to see lack of cooperation from folks that possibly could have info when the clear priority in this case is to find 2 missing children (or figure out what happened to them).

Putting this puzzle together is complex!

MOO

 

[155etta]

None of the LDS beliefs are secret. Anyone can view the core principals below. Should any of the so-called "sleuths" here be bothered to read or understand, many of the comments about the rank and file LDS would have been unnecessary and/or deleted.

Articles of Faith

To quote a few relevant passages:

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.​

"None of the LDS beliefs are secret."

Would you be willing to tell us here about the temple ceremonies then? I'm super curious about them.

 

[mickey2942]

"None of the LDS beliefs are secret."

Would you be willing to tell us here about the temple ceremonies then? I'm super curious about them.

There are plenty of websites that discuss the LDS church, temple ceremonies and other ordinances.

Let's keep the focus here on Lori and Chad Daybell. And finding JJ and his sister.