Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #7

[dkryder]

one thing i'm curious about is Lori reportedly claiming that she is a translated being. everything i've read about the issue of Lori being translated makes reference to Lori just claiming she is. there has been no reporting at all that anyone else in the church recognizes her as a translated being. so unless the church just allows any member to claim themselves as translated , Lori seems to be astray. because she seems astray of the church i don't understand why anyone within the church would provide safe harbor. it seems to me the true faithful that are aware of her location should provide it to elders and Lori should be called to a meeting with those elders. because no one is doing so the issue is a stain on the church itself. MOO. organized religions no matter which one can not have members claiming themselves to be of the highest order without some intervention by elders to either confirm or deny and then dealing with decision. as an outsider of this church,to me, Lori seems to me to be making a joke of what being translated is supposed to mean within the church and elders are not responding and doing their jobs. at the very least, elders should be mentioning that members do not decide for themselves if they are the translated being and it's been crickets by them. MOO.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Dbm. duplicate

 

[BigAl16]

Here's a link to wiki about female clergy.

Ordination of women - Wikipedia

ETA TY for clarifying bishop = ward leader.

You're welcome. The wiki's section on the Mormon stance is pretty good. It mentions a lady named Kate Kelly who has lobbied for women to be given the priesthood, but doesn't mention that she was excommunicated for that. That specifically isn't pertinent to this discussion, but in a general sense it does.

There has been talk about excommunication, both whether it has happened to CD (almost surely not yet, but it may be in his future) and how it has to JR and other thought-leaders among the PAP crowd. I suspect a lot of PAP's reaction to CD's situation is that they view themselves or at least present themselves as being for Mormon faithful. But Mormon leadership has historically not reacted well to activism within their ranks or doing anything that might attract negative attention. (At least part of the reason, IMO, why they haven't commented on this case other than the "has nothing to do with us" answer.) The leaders of PAP don't want to be associated with anyone who has been excommunicated and we've seen instances of them trying to wipe clean as well as they can any ties to anyone where that has happened.

 

[BigAl16]

Here's a link to wiki about female clergy.

Ordination of women - Wikipedia

ETA TY for clarifying bishop = ward leader.

You're welcome. The wiki's section on the Mormon stance is pretty good. It mentions a lady named Kate Kelly who has lobbied for women to be given the priesthood, but doesn't mention that she was excommunicated for that. That specifically isn't pertinent to this discussion, but in a general sense it does.

There has been talk about excommunication, both whether it has happened to CD (almost surely not yet, but it may be in his future) and how it has to JR and other thought-leaders among the PAP crowd. I suspect a lot of PAP's reaction to CD's situation is that they view themselves or at least present themselves as being for Mormon faithful. But Mormon leadership has historically not reacted well to activism within their ranks or doing anything that might attract negative attention. (At least part of the reason, IMO, why they haven't commented on this case other than the "has nothing to do with us" answer.) The leaders of PAP don't want to be associated with anyone who has been excommunicated and we've seen instances of them trying to wipe clean as well as they can any ties to anyone where that has happened.

 

[Redvines86]

From what I hear about PAP and a VOW is that the largest group of people who attend this are from LDS, even though the groups seem to offer pablum that’s outside of LDS doctrine. In my mind the only fault LDS church has in this, is delaying excommunicating people who are clearly over the redline and out of bounds. So if Chad does indeed have a “Cult “ those adherents would have been out of the LDS church.

And now that Lori has voiced that Jesus will return sometime in June 2020, I really think that they plan on being hunkered down until that day. What’s going to happen to them with Christ doesn’t magically appear? In the meantime will they put out a casting call to feel the ranks of 144,000? Well these 144000 people have a chance to tithe to them? Will they accept Visa and MasterCard?

What better plan could there be then buying your way to heaven on borrowed money?

We are going to figure out a lot more about the case by knowing more about AVOW and PAP, that's what we should be studying.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I have to guess it is a LDS member sheltering them but purely MOO. Where though, that is the question?

From what I hear about PAP and AVOW is that the largest group of people who attend this are from LDS, even though the groups seem to offer some pablum that’s outside of LDS doctrine. Re: Daybells side channel. In my mind the only fault LDS church has in this, is delaying excommunicating people who are clearly over the redline and out of bounds. So if Chad does indeed have a “Cult “ those adherents would have been out of the LDS church.

For them it’s a perennial struggle.

And now that Lori has voiced that Jesus will return sometime in June 2020, I really think that they plan on being hunkered down until that day. What’s going to happen to them with Christ doesn’t magically appear? In the meantime will they put out a casting call to fill the ranks of the 144,000? Well these 144000 people have a chance to tithe to them? Will they accept Visa and MasterCard?

What better plan could there be then buying your way to heaven on borrowed money?

 

[BigAl16]

one thing i'm curious about is Lori reportedly claiming that she is a translated being. everything i've read about the issue of Lori being translated makes reference to Lori just claiming she is. there has been no reporting at all that anyone else in the church recognizes her as a translated being. so unless the church just allows any member to claim themselves as translated , Lori seems to be astray. because she seems astray of the church i don't understand why anyone within the church would provide safe harbor. it seems to me the true faithful that are aware of her location should provide it to elders and Lori should be called to a meeting with those elders. because no one is doing so the issue is a stain on the church itself. MOO. organized religions no matter which one can not have members claiming themselves to be of the highest order without some intervention by elders to either confirm or deny and then dealing with decision. as an outsider of this church,to me, Lori seems to me to be making a joke of what being translated is supposed to mean within the church and elders are not responding and doing their jobs. at the very least, elders should be mentioning that members do not decide for themselves if they are the translated being and it's been crickets by them. MOO.

I'm going to guess that her local leaders where ever her church records currently are (I'm guessing still in AZ) hadn't picked up on this unless they have since she has been missing. Assuming that she hasn't see repercussions from it, which we don't really know. I'd expect that she will see those repercussions in the future though.

 

[BigAl16]

We are going to figure out a lot more about the case by knowing more about AVOW and PAP, that's what we should be studying.

I think you're right. CD and LV are definitely outside the mainstream of Mormonism, but (protests from PAP notwithstanding) don't appear to be outside of the mainstream for PAP and AVOW. MOO

 

[Alpha Bravo]

We are going to figure out a lot more about the case by knowing more about AVOW and PAP, that's what we should be studying.

Apparently

one thing i'm curious about is Lori reportedly claiming that she is a translated being. everything i've read about the issue of Lori being translated makes reference to Lori just claiming she is. there has been no reporting at all that anyone else in the church recognizes her as a translated being. so unless the church just allows any member to claim themselves as translated , Lori seems to be astray. because she seems astray of the church i don't understand why anyone within the church would provide safe harbor. it seems to me the true faithful that are aware of her location should provide it to elders and Lori should be called to a meeting with those elders. because no one is doing so the issue is a stain on the church itself. MOO. organized religions no matter which one can not have members claiming themselves to be of the highest order without some intervention by elders to either confirm or deny and then dealing with decision. as an outsider of this church,to me, Lori seems to me to be making a joke of what being translated is supposed to mean within the church and elders are not responding and doing their jobs. at the very least, elders should be mentioning that members do not decide for themselves if they are the translated being and it's been crickets by them. MOO.

BINGO

 

[tresir2012]

Did Lori know Charles Vallow before she divorced Joseph Ryan ?........moo

This is from the timeline. Divorce finalized May 2005, married CV Feb 2006. No other info by the look of it.

18 May 2005 – Lori and JR’s divorce is finalized in Hays Co, Texas (Court records).

6 Sept 2005 – Lori is listed on a Trustee Deed for the home she shared with JR in Driftwood, TX (Hays Co Property records).

24 Feb 2006 - Lori marries her 4th husband, Leland "Charles" Anthony Vallow (CV) in Las Vegas, NV (Clark Co marriage records).

 

[Onsdag]

We are going to figure out a lot more about the case by knowing more about AVOW and PAP, that's what we should be studying.

Absolutely agree, IMHO. Especially the former group as that's where CD got in touch with a certain lady whom he befriended, encouraged, and whom later became his most famous published author. The owner/operator of that site also encouraged and supported (likely still does) them and/or others like them because his livelihood is directly tied to their success. Again, MOO. Unfortunately, as they are not considered POI, MSM, and are a private group then we're not supposed to discuss them on this site.

 

[fred&edna]

We are going to figure out a lot more about the case by knowing more about AVOW and PAP, that's what we should be studying.

'Just clicking the "like" button isn't enough on this post!!! ITA

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Here is an MSM article on LDS folks starting their own side groups or cults. One of many. Put here in the context to see what the LDS church has to deal with on occasion as apparently they have with the Daybells.

An offshoot of the Mormon church is drawing away members. But what does the ‘Remnant’ believe — and will it last?

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

one thing i'm curious about is Lori reportedly claiming that she is a translated being. everything i've read about the issue of Lori being translated makes reference to Lori just claiming she is. there has been no reporting at all that anyone else in the church recognizes her as a translated being. so unless the church just allows any member to claim themselves as translated , Lori seems to be astray. because she seems astray of the church i don't understand why anyone within the church would provide safe harbor. it seems to me the true faithful that are aware of her location should provide it to elders and Lori should be called to a meeting with those elders. because no one is doing so the issue is a stain on the church itself. MOO. organized religions no matter which one can not have members claiming themselves to be of the highest order without some intervention by elders to either confirm or deny and then dealing with decision. as an outsider of this church,to me, Lori seems to me to be making a joke of what being translated is supposed to mean within the church and elders are not responding and doing their jobs. at the very least, elders should be mentioning that members do not decide for themselves if they are the translated being and it's been crickets by them. MOO.

A link was posted in the last thread about this. They (the cult) believe in an ordinance of ordination that allows a person to become translated. So, within the framework of their new organization, she would legitimately feel she has been given that power. I am sure, like Chad, she kept it a secret from her ward. But you are correct, at the very least this should be addressed and discouraged now that the information has been made public. We here have had a lot of discussion on why no statement has been made. Moo.

 

[tresir2012]

You're welcome. The wiki's section on the Mormon stance is pretty good. It mentions a lady named Kate Kelly who has lobbied for women to be given the priesthood, but doesn't mention that she was excommunicated for that. That specifically isn't pertinent to this discussion, but in a general sense it does.

There has been talk about excommunication, both whether it has happened to CD (almost surely not yet, but it may be in his future) and how it has to JR and other thought-leaders among the PAP crowd. I suspect a lot of PAP's reaction to CD's situation is that they view themselves or at least present themselves as being for Mormon faithful. But Mormon leadership has historically not reacted well to activism within their ranks or doing anything that might attract negative attention. (At least part of the reason, IMO, why they haven't commented on this case other than the "has nothing to do with us" answer.) The leaders of PAP don't want to be associated with anyone who has been excommunicated and we've seen instances of them trying to wipe clean as well as they can any ties to anyone where that has happened.

I thought the Wiki was good but admittedly only checked the Christianity section looking down the list till I saw LDS in there.

I understand that Chad's podcasts and writings are likely borderline OK. But marrying an unauthorised translated being could prove troublesome in the future I guess IMO. From the timeline, this is the closest to trouble he has got into before.

18 Mar 2003 – Chad’s books are pulled from the shelves of Deseret Book Stores, allegedly due to an irreverent scene in "Chasing Paradise," where a warrior angel drop-kicks a naughty spirit through a wall. Chad is working as managing editor of Cedar Fort publishing at the time (Deseret News).

 

[CSIDreamer]

We are going to figure out a lot more about the case by knowing more about AVOW and PAP, that's what we should be studying.

PAP has thrown out a virtual cease & desist order, I didn't realize that.

1. They are demanding they not be mentioned in any discussion connected to Chad and Lori.

2. They also claim that while their site is obviously all about LDS, it really isn't. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, folks.

Just an FYI.

 

[BigAl16]

PAP has thrown out a virtual cease & desist order, I didn't realize that.

1. They are demanding they not be mentioned in any discussion connected to Chad and Lori.

2. They also claim that while their site is obviously all about LDS, it really isn't. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, folks.

Just an FYI.

Me thinks they doth protest too much.

MOO

 

[Alpha Bravo]

PAP has thrown out a virtual cease & desist order, I didn't realize that.

1. They are demanding they not be mentioned in any discussion connected to Chad and Lori.

2. They also claim that while their site is obviously all about LDS, it really isn't. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, folks.

Just an FYI.

They don’t want to be known as “Preparing A Perp”?

 

[tresir2012]

PAP has thrown out a virtual cease & desist order, I didn't realize that.

1. They are demanding they not be mentioned in any discussion connected to Chad and Lori.

2. They also claim that while their site is obviously all about LDS, it really isn't. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, folks.

Just an FYI.

Well that is strange because a June and December 2019 conference that they are still advertising and selling a video from, features him in the pictures. I'll post the link.

This has a speaker bio for Chad.

https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-conference-tickets-1

And this has a pic of him speaking at a conference ( scroll down till you get to the gallery of pics )

https://www.preparingapeople.com/events

 

[diggndeeperstill]

We are going to figure out a lot more about the case by knowing more about AVOW and PAP, that's what we should be studying.

I think I agree with that statement. There is plenty info out there on it.

Let me see if I can articulate what I wonder. It’s probably a psychological question. I am not trying to offend or really come from a religious angle at all because this can be applied to many religions, or beliefs. Just selling something that won’t do what it says it will do is somewhat similar. Let me explain.

If you are someone who claims to prophesy but your prophesies don’t come true, were you really prophesying or were you scamming? More importantly, what did you think you were doing? Is it all about money to these people or is only part of it money and there is some belief mixed with a desire to “be more” so this sort of evolves? Do you know you are lying or have you convinced yourself you are truth? Do you think you are truth yet have a need for money so you have a mix?

I think that is the hard question because it’s a heart question. If you are entirely about money then where they are and where the kids are has a different potential than if you have “some” of your faith left and are just playing into a false belief. Does that make sense?