Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

[Ohmeohmy]

Thank you for tagging me!

In regards to the bold-- I believe that is the reporter, Adam Herberts' own wording, not a quote from police, correct? Someone correct me if I'm mistaken. I have yet to see LE make a statement on Joseph Ryan's death. If JR's death is really not part of the current investigation then I think there is another suspicious death that happened before Tammy that we are not aware of yet.
MOO.

The timeline is key to keeping us all sane..ha Yes, I agree I think it is the reporters comments.

 

[Secretly a Secretary]

So I am going with hearsay from Grays video. I found most of what the witness/family member said as fairly credible with her own opinions thrown in. I had avoided watching it, so it is "old news." But her statement about Alex flying off to Columbia often? How would this even be possible? Funded and why? If it was for the reason stated why would he need to fly to Columbia?? What else was this guy up to if there is an ounce of truth in it.

 

[Gardener1850]

I've never been clear on this: Is isn't known who she said that to, right? Where did that info come from?

The source of Lori saying that Tylee died years ago is the Dec 30th Press Release put out by the Rexburg Police Dept: Rexburg Police Department

Quoting from that press release:

We strongly believe that Joshua and Tylee’s lives are in danger. We are aware that in the weeks after Tammy Daybell’s death, Lori Vallow/Daybell and Chad Daybell told witnesses that Lori’s daughter had died a year before the death of her father, which is untrue. Around that same time Chad told another witness that Lori had no minor children.

--------------------

We don't know who Lori told this to but I believe police know. In an interview sometime after this press release a LEO (I'm thinking either the Fremont County Sheriff or the Rexburg Sheriff?) said Lori told "family" that Tylee died years ago. I looked but can't find that quote about it being family now -- maybe someone else knows which sheriff said it and where. Otherwise, consider it my opinion only that Lori told family members (possibly Chad's family IMHO) that Tylee died before her father.

 

[RHarrison]

So I am going with hearsay from Grays video. I found most of what the witness/family member said as fairly credible with her own opinions thrown in. I had avoided watching it, so it is "old news." But her statement about Alex flying off to Columbia often? How would this even be possible? Funded and why? If it was for the reason stated why would he need to fly to Columbia?? What else was this guy up to if there is an ounce of truth in it.

There is truth in that statement. But not at sinister as made to sound. Probably exaggerated. Possibly a couple short vacations. This guy lived with family members and had a truck driver salary. Easily afford that.

 

[jjenny]

There is truth in that statement. But not at sinister as made to sound. Probably exaggerated. Possibly a couple short vacations. This guy lived with family members and had a truck driver salary. Easily afford that.

As far as I can tell he had his own house.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

@RexburgSleuth
I have a few questions...I am curious about who Tammy was. In her obituary it says she was a Young Womens President and Stake Young Women's Camp Director. What is the feeling in the Ward about what is taking place? (She would have been working directly with girls 12-18 in the area if this was her calling (job in the ward) at the time she died. I kinda wonder if the "paintball gun'" incident was down played as a prank because she had been with the Youth Programs and had kids this age. Also, what about her friends? Do they look back and see a weird marriage?

Her obituary reads: "She served in numerous capacities in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including as Stake Girls Camp Director and as Young Women President. She also served in Relief Society and Primary presidencies. She loved the women and girls she was privileged to serve with."
At the time of her death she was not Young Women's President. I'm fairly certain she was in the Relief Society Presidency (women aged 18+). At the time I don't think there was much ado about the "paintball gun" incident. We had a few years ago a prowler in the neighborhood. I think some were worried we were going to have another rash of such miscreants. But that did die down because of her statement on the Facebook group. Since her death I know I and some others have serious concerns it wasn't a prank. I don't think anyone would think Chad and Tammy's marriage was weird. They were the perfect family. It really was/is a surprise how this is all turning out.

 

[Gardener1850]

If Chad had a Ham radio license he had no noticeable equipment, even from the prior home owner.

Thanks. I just want to make a small note that a Ham radio operator's equipment need not be large and obvious. My grandfather had a Ham radio license as part of his job. All he had were handheld radios that were like walkies-talkies and a slightly larger radio scanner unit about the size of a landline phone answering machine from the 90's (for anyone who can remember that decade/knows what those are, lol). His scanner radio picked up all the local police/EMT/fire radio frequencies and he could radio out to someone many miles away with the handheld radio. This was a long time ago and equipment has probably improved distance wise since then, but my point is, he didn't have a big radio tower or a huge radio unit where it would be obvious. No one visiting my grandfather's house would know he had a Ham radio license, unless the scanner radio was on picking up chatter. It would be easy to communicate with someone in the same county with two handheld radios set to the same channel-- and even if police or other Ham operators heard your radio communication they wouldn't know your location or necessarily know what you are talking about.

MOO.

 

[BigAl16]

Thanks. I just want to make a small note that a Ham radio operator's equipment need not be large and obvious. My grandfather had a Ham radio license as part of his job. All he had were handheld radios that were like walkies-talkies and a slightly larger radio scanner unit about the size of a landline phone answering machine from the 90's (for anyone who can remember that decade/knows what those are, lol). His scanner radio picked up all the local police/EMT/fire radio frequencies and he could radio out to someone many miles away with the handheld radio. This was a long time ago and equipment has probably improved distance wise since then, but my point is, he didn't have a big radio tower or a huge radio unit where it would be obvious. No one visiting my grandfather's house would know he had a Ham radio license, unless the scanner radio was on picking up chatter. It would be easy to communicate with someone in the same county with two handheld radios set to the same channel-- and even if police or other Ham operators heard your radio communication they wouldn't know your location or necessarily know what you are talking about.

MOO.

Right. The short discussion I did about different frequencies and license levels earlier, some of the license levels (not the level the two Daybells showed as having) are people who are aiming for contacts from as far away as possible (China, literally, if the radio waves behave just right). Those might have large antennas as part of the process, but some have equipment that isn't that impressive and antennas that might not jump out at you or might even be in a vehicle.

 

[spandangly]

Her obituary reads: "She served in numerous capacities in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including as Stake Girls Camp Director and as Young Women President. She also served in Relief Society and Primary presidencies. She loved the women and girls she was privileged to serve with."
At the time of her death she was not Young Women's President. I'm fairly certain she was in the Relief Society Presidency (women aged 18+). At the time I don't think there was much ado about the "paintball gun" incident. We had a few years ago a prowler in the neighborhood. I think some were worried we were going to have another rash of such miscreants. But that did die down because of her statement on the Facebook group. Since her death I know I and some others have serious concerns it wasn't a prank. I don't think anyone would think Chad and Tammy's marriage was weird. They were the perfect family. It really was/is a surprise how this is all turning out.

So did people in the ward have no idea about Chad's books? Did they know he claimed to be visionary? What about his association with JRowe?None knew about AVOW, I assume. Do you think there are other members in your ward who are sympathizers--potentially AVOW members? Do you suddenly wonder who in the ward you can actually trust??

 

[RHarrison]

As far as I can tell he had his own house.

Pretty sure he lived with Lori or the other sister most of the time and for a short while rented a place.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Her obituary reads: "She served in numerous capacities in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including as Stake Girls Camp Director and as Young Women President. She also served in Relief Society and Primary presidencies. She loved the women and girls she was privileged to serve with."
At the time of her death she was not Young Women's President. I'm fairly certain she was in the Relief Society Presidency (women aged 18+). At the time I don't think there was much ado about the "paintball gun" incident. We had a few years ago a prowler in the neighborhood. I think some were worried we were going to have another rash of such miscreants. But that did die down because of her statement on the Facebook group. Since her death I know I and some others have serious concerns it wasn't a prank. I don't think anyone would think Chad and Tammy's marriage was weird. They were the perfect family. It really was/is a surprise how this is all turning out.

I get the impression she being a Mom, grandma , working at the library and her church service, she was a very nice lady . I am sure shock is an understatement to this whole scenario. I can not imagine the stress this is putting on the 5 Daybell kids.

 

[arizonamomoffour]

Well I am sure the family members of Charles are thrilled he was treated like a celebrity.

I hope they didn't have to listen to it. Alex Cox sounded as if nothing out of the ordinary happened. A narcissistic individual . MOO

 

[KonaHonu]

She had documentation that Bailey (the dog) had rabies vaccination. She posted that when trying to sell Bailey. It was an attached file to the ad. Presumably all that Bailey would need then is rabies titers.

Yes, but having gone through this...It is not as simple as going to your vet to get a quick blood draw. The vaccination has to be of acceptable "lots/manufacturers." The titer has to be done by a very short list of labs. One of them I think is at University of Kansas. The turnaround is weeks/months not days. Then the results have to get to the State of Hawaii before arrival and the state has to process them (more weeks). (Maybe not something most people will understand but Hawaii is somewhat like a third world country. Things do not usually work as advertised. I could give dozens of examples but suffice it to say that the process the state web pages outline is idealistic at best. On Oahu there is more infrastructure so things are more likely to work as described. Where I live on the Big Island it truly is like the wild west in many ways. Many government processes simply cannot be implemented as the law dictates so the laws are simply not followed. If Oahu were to try to complain they'd have to fork over billions of dollars they don't have immediately to fund the infrastructure required. I could give a very specific example right now but it is way off topic.)

We planned for 2 years to get an animal here and the "action period" while we were getting and waiting for tests, government responses, etc. was over 6 months. At my workplace we routinely hire people from the mainland and the time frame I experienced is typical.

My only point is that you do not decide to move to Hawaii and show up with your dog 2 months later, not even a service dog. Health rules trump ADA. The ONLY difference between service animals and pets in the process is that service animals can avoid the 120 day quarantine period if all the documentation is in order. But that has applied to pets as well for the last 7 years or so which means there is no longer any real difference.

I do not believe they moved to Hawaii. But if they did, that could explain the need to get rid of the dog. There simply was no time to get the dog here.

On the flip side, the whole "wild west" nature of the situation here means that people can and do disappear and avoid LE for decades. There are things that happen in the hills where police cannot even legally go within miles of that would blow your mind. Most of course are drug operations. But there are whacko compounds as well, mostly New Agers. And the local LDS community at least on the Big Island seems very mainstream.

 

[KonaHonu]

So he went to Hawai after the memorial service. Do you have dates and, when he came back was he already married? Who told you he was editing a book and what book/author? ( Sorry so many questions, please only answer if you can). The book interests me as he appeared to want out of the book business according to JR, but Tammy wanted him to continue.

I'd also be very curious about which island he went to. We know Lori has a connection to Kauai but we've heard nothing about Chad's connection. I live in Hawaii. The islands are fairly similar on the surface to tourists. But they have a profoundly different nature when it comes to the fringe factors.

Princeville Kauai where Lori has connections is about as touristy as it gets. If Chad went there I'd think it was because of her or a past tourist trip. If, on the other hand, I learned that he went to Puna on the Big Island I'd immediately think he had some kind of compound here.

 

[KonaHonu]

Melani's attorney is primarily a family law attorney out of Salt Lake City (different county than American Fork). The hearing is a Waiver Hearing which, in Utah, is a formal plea bargaining session in order to avoid further court action.

This is purely speculation but what I read into that is that she wants her kids and had already retained the attorney. Given her likely obvious guilt and minimal fine (she's probably paying more for the attorney to defend it), she just wants it behind her as she fights for her kids in Utah (assuming they are there). I don't think a family law attorney would be my first call from lockup anywhere so there must be more to it.

 

[KonaHonu]

Have you seen this quote attributed to Lori?

Her friend vividly remembers one disturbing thing Lori would allegedly say, "It's gonna be the end of the world and we should all just drive off a cliff and kill us and our kids and die all at the same time."

Also, Chad believes he got special visions from a time when he went cliff jumping and almost died. Maybe they thought they would survive and get extra special visions going over the cliff or something? Also, if they believed the police were after them for several murders and they believed the end was coming in 2020 anyway, why wouldn't they drive off a cliff on Dec 30th as Lori said she thought everyone should do in the end times? I must admit I thought it wasn't very likely to be them when I first read about a car going over the cliff. Lori and Chad have connections to Southern California, but not Northern CA where the car went off. I also feel like they are both too egotistical to kill themselves. But the resemblance to a Nissan Rogue had me reconsidering that could be them. MOO.

Back around 12/30 I thought it was a strange coincidence but probably not them. Now that it has been almost a month without identifying a possible victim, even if it was an accident, I'm beginning to wonder if it was them. Most people have someone who would report them missing after a month. The fact that this car seems to have occupants that haven't is strange. And given Lori's comment...I wonder.

 

[KonaHonu]

There is truth in that statement. But not at sinister as made to sound. Probably exaggerated. Possibly a couple short vacations. This guy lived with family members and had a truck driver salary. Easily afford that.

If I'm right about his employer as I previously posted he made around $80,000 a year. Depending on other expenses, that's probably enough for frequent trips to Columbia

 

[Sillybilly]

Can we reference the Gray video: as fact, hearsay, or a mix of both? I finally listened to it. Jeez! I should not have avoided it for so long.

Gray Hughes' videos are allowed at Websleuths. He is a member here and therefore a verifiable source who has been well vetted by Tricia.

 

[UnknownSleuth]

Something has been bugging me about the Vegas marriages and even Lori and Chad's marriage, and what they say about motivations. Maybe someone can help me flesh it out.

I think the marriages may point much more heavily to money/legal motivation than to "cult cleansing"/must marry someone in the fold, or anything else religion-related. And, in turn, if the marriages were more money/legality motivated than religiously motivated, maybe the disappearance of the kids is less likely to be religiously-motivated, too. I don't know if that helps at all narrowing down where the kids could be, but at least it gives me more hope they are alive, not dead in some cult-mission-from-god-these-kids-are-dark-spirits scenario.

In LDS theology, a marriage--a legal, civil, piece-of-paper marriage--is an earthly thing "of man." A temple sealing is what is important and focused on. It's a saving ordinance, which means you can't get to (the highest degree of) heaven without it. A temple sealing for a live couple (as opposed to proxy sealings for the dead) is most often both a legal marriage and religious ordinance. The temple sealer is a legal officiant. But some couples are first married outside the temple in a regular wedding ceremony, and later are sealed in the temple. In that case, the sealing ceremony is just that: a sealing, not a marriage.

Now, we know Chad et. al. had one foot in the mainstream church and one foot in the fringe/possibly his own church. As such, maybe he holds no stock in the regular Mormon temple and the sealings there. But then you see a lot of these fringe groups performing their own marriages, and bypassing civil marriages--civil marriages aren't what "count" anyway.

But there is some reason(s) that this group of supposed anti-government religious fanatic cultists wanted government civil marriages. I can only think it's because they wanted some advantage(s) that civil marriages provide, and they obviously wanted them *quickly.* So, what advantages??? Community assets? Automatic beneficiary in case of death? Spousal privilege barring testifying against spouse (which has exceptions that vary from state to state)? Something else I'm not thinking of? Health insurance ?!?!? (I don't think anyone but MB's spouse is likely to have a company-sponsored plan.)

The other reason for a civil marriage is because it makes one look more above-board to one's children/family/friends. But then, it would be just as easy to lie and say a marriage had been performed out of state, even if it hadn't. I guess since we still don't have a record of the Daybell-Vallow marriage, that could still be the case. Also, if one is still holding to LDS standards, a marriage (civil or temple) takes having sex from the realm of grievous sin to "go for it" (sex outside of marriage is a sin). Or maybe they just *wanted* to actually be married, and since they couldn't go to the temple, they did Vegas (or Hawaii or wherever, for Chad and Lori). Chad and Lori may have been able to get married in the temple, actually, but not likely for Melanie, don't know about Zulema or Alex. Women can't be sealed to more than one person at a time (civil divorce doesn't dissolve a sealing), and you have to answer affirmatively to certain behavioral/belief standards to go in the temple.

Just my ramblings that I'm not feeling able to put to words. Does anyone get what I am trying to say? Why these quick civil marriages that don't hold religious weight?

All of the above is MOO.

 

[indicolite22]

Back around 12/30 I thought it was a strange coincidence but probably not them. Now that it has been almost a month without identifying a possible victim, even if it was an accident, I'm beginning to wonder if it was them. Most people have someone who would report them missing after a month. The fact that this car seems to have occupants that haven't is strange. And given Lori's comment...I wonder.

What are the chances that the car that went off the cliff was a rental? Would Lori and Chad use rentals or borrowed cars at this point?
There have been cases where people going missing went unnoticed for several months or even longer.