Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

[tresir2012]

In this case, Lori was custodial parent and grandparents don't have rights. I fail to see why she would fear any custody battles from grandparents. It ain't her first rodeo. She fought for custody against Joseph Ryan for years over Taylee. I fail to see any reason whatsoever for her to hide children over non-existing custody battle.

Why exactly is she hiding them from welfare checks then? She must believe they are going to take them or is worried about what they will say or they are deceased. I know she is crazy but it doesn't make sense unless she is worried about losing them. MOO.

ETA I think she is hiding them because she is anticipating a custody battle IMO. How's that?

 

[mickey2942]

Lori and Chad left the country, the kids left the country or both?

Lori and Chad Daybell have probably left the country. The children are probably dead. I believe that Lori had Alex do the dirty work. Alex is dead.

The police won't have anything on Lori and Chad, I have no doubt that Tammy was killed, and there is little to no evidence. And even if there is, Chad has already "lawyered up", they need absolute evidence to charge Chad, and I don't think that they have it.

 

[tresir2012]

This is where Melani comes in. Who had custody of her when her dad was in the picture he didn't abandon her. Look into that and you find your answers. Moo. I can't give you the answers because there is no sleuthing in here.

Ok I always thought Lori was like a mum to M after Lori's sister died 22 years ago when M was only about 7 years old. MOO.

 

[utahobserver]

Why exactly is she hiding them from welfare checks then? She must believe they are going to take them or is worried about what they will say or they are deceased. I know she is crazy but it doesn't make sense unless she is worried about losing them. MOO.

This is a very good point. Her upbringing may have taught her to distrust government authority, but in the police videos and police reports, she knows exactly how to behave to persuade authorities to think she is blameless. So why not do the same in Rexburg?

 

[BigAl16]

This DM article has a lot of info in it but it mentions the divorce proceedings by Charles asking for sole custody of JJ and that Lori was a danger because of her visions that she was a translated being etc and wanted Charles dead. At the time of Charles death I believe the divorce had been stopped but I am not completely sure. So there certainly was a custody issue in the divorce proceedings which CV pulled, maybe due to worry about what Lori was capable of. Any custody issue stopped with his death I guess. I don't know if joint custody had been agreed as I remember seeing something about CV having JJ 3 days a week, so it is not strictly correct to state there was no custody issue. At one time there was a custody issue.

ETA forgot the link.

Estranged husband of Idaho mom whose two kids are missing 'suspected she or brother would kill him' | Daily Mail Online

There absolutely has been custody issues in the past with Tylee's dad and then with Charles, but those go away when the other parent goes away.

 

[Rush4087]

I think Chad sent Tammy to see her parents so they could have a last goodbye.

JMO

I also agree that Chad sent TD to see her parents as a last goodbye (unbeknownst to poor unsuspecting TD). In retrospect, I am not aware of any event or action of CD's that took place in Rexburg on that date that reveals a reason why he would've needed TD out of the house or out of town then (even post potato harvest, or whatever). What, just so he could spend a day or two with Lori? Seems pretty risky to me. For one thing, they might've been seen together. And I don't think he disappeared the kids, I think that was perpetrated by members of the Cox family.

I think Chad's act of sending TD was, in retrospect, clear evidence that he knew in advance that Tammy would soon be killed. Jmo, but I believe that CD either poisoned TD himself, or knew that she would soon be poisoned by someone else. I can't wait for the autopsy results to be made public.

Again moo, but just as I don't buy all the other visions, dreams, reincarnation, and translated- being nonsense in this case from Joseph Smith, AVOW, JR, Lori, and CD, I don't buy that CD just "envisioned" or dreamed or witnessed TD's upcoming death - I believe he fantasized it. I believe he was planning it. I believe he knew it was wrong and was trying to somehow assuage his guilt.

Imo his sending TD to her parents for a last goodbye was evidence of his waning grasp on morality and reality, his growing confusion over right and wrong, good and evil. It was evidence of his rationalization built on the delusions and self-worship he had nurtured over the preceding two decades of his life. Reality was slipping away. It had been replaced by dreams and visions. He belonged to a cult.

What's bizarre is that he actually may have loved her even as he was planning her upcoming death. Imo it speaks to the extent of his (and other's in this case) radical delusion, which to me, bordered on insanity. Apocalypse now.

 

[fred&edna]

This is where Melani comes in. Who had custody of her when her dad was in the picture he didn't abandon her. Look into that and you find your answers. Moo. I can't give you the answers because there is no sleuthing in here.

Who had legal custody or physical custody? I'm not sure which lines I'm suppose to be reading between.

Physical custody was father & his mother (M's paternal grandmother) is my initial "guess" without further looking.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

I think Chad sent Tammy to see her parents so they could have a last goodbye.

I think you are being sarcastic right? I do believe he wanted her out of the way so he could carry on his shenanigans though.

He had (according to JRowe) mentioned that he still had visions of her dying. MOO: If innocent of her death, he could have just been cautious. If guilty, a last goodbye makes sense.

RSBM

Have those been confirmed by VI or other source? Could you link? I don't remember those and they are pretty important. I could have missed them.

Verified: Chad left the Daybell home Oct 24th the day after Tammy's memorial. He may have returned for things later, but that is not known. What happened to Tammy's belongings in the home is also not known. They may still be there AFAIK.
Verified: Chad was not released from his calling as Executive Secretary until after about Nov 10th or 17th, I can't recall (ETA: No, it was later as I mentioned in an earlier message).

About Tammy's body being embalmed:
It's been four months since J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan were last seen
"Flamm Funeral Home confirmed Tamara’s remains were embalmed before she was buried, which would reduce decomposition and potentially preserve any evidence a coroner may find. However embalming “can interfere with toxicology and blood cultures,” according to a PBS Frontline report. “But autopsies performed on … exhumed bodies can still provide vital new information, depending on the extent of decomposition.”"

 

[tresir2012]

This is a very good point. Her upbringing may have taught her to distrust government authority, but in the police videos and police reports, she knows exactly how to behave to persuade authorities to think she is blameless. So why not do the same in Rexburg?

Because JJ may blurt out " Mummy shot Daddy" ? MOO.

 

[Gardener1850]

Lori and Chad Daybell have probably left the country. The children are probably dead. I believe that Lori had Alex do the dirty work. Alex is dead.

The police won't have anything on Lori and Chad, I have no doubt that Tammy was killed, and there is little to no evidence. And even if there is, Chad has already "lawyered up", they need absolute evidence to charge Chad, and I don't think that they have it.

BBM. The Fremont County Sheriff thinks that they are still in the US:

"Humphries said he believed Daybell and Vallow have left Idaho but are still in the United States."

Police suspect Idaho cult leader's first wife was POISONED | Daily Mail Online

That was in an interview he gave the first week in January, so I suppose the situation could have changed and Lori and Chad could have left the US since then. But I get the sense from various LE statements that LE has some clues about where Lori and Chad are located. At the very least, LE would know if they left the country. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

There absolutely has been custody issues in the past with Tylee's dad and then with Charles, but those go away when the other parent goes away.

Do they though when the remaining parent is having visions, wanting to kill people and maybe even accomplishing it? Why have LE said the kids are in "serious danger"? It can only be from Lori IMO.

 

[BigAl16]

BBM. The Fremont County Sheriff thinks that they are still in the US:

"Humphries said he believed Daybell and Vallow have left Idaho but are still in the United States."

Police suspect Idaho cult leader's first wife was POISONED | Daily Mail Online

That was in an interview he gave the first week in January, so I suppose the situation could have changed and Lori and Chad could have left the US since then. But I get the sense from various LE statements that LE has some clues about where Lori and Chad are located. At the very least, LE would know if they left the country. MOO.

Would probably know if they left the country, but maybe not. I suspect there are places where they could fairly easily sneak across the border into Mexico or (more likely) Canada and unless they were being watched closely LE might not know. Certainly if they cross the border legally it would be known and I suspect there is a good chance they'd even get stopped.

 

[CSIDreamer]

This DM article has a lot of info in it but it mentions the divorce proceedings by Charles asking for sole custody of JJ and that Lori was a danger because of her visions that she was a translated being etc and wanted Charles dead. At the time of Charles death I believe the divorce had been stopped but I am not completely sure. So there certainly was a custody issue in the divorce proceedings which CV pulled, maybe due to worry about what Lori was capable of. Any custody issue stopped with his death I guess. I don't know if joint custody had been agreed as I remember seeing something about CV having JJ 3 days a week, so it is not strictly correct to state there was no custody issue. At one time there was a custody issue.

ETA forgot the link.

Estranged husband of Idaho mom whose two kids are missing 'suspected she or brother would kill him' | Daily Mail Online

There was no custody issue that would have "caused" Lori to hide JJ in September. You cannot have a custody battle with a corpse.

 

[tresir2012]

He had (according to JRowe) mentioned that he still had visions of her dying. MOO: If innocent of her death, he could have just been cautious. If guilty, a last goodbye makes sense.


Verified: Chad left the Daybell home Oct 24th the day after Tammy's memorial. He may have returned for things later, but that is not known. What happened to Tammy's belongings in the home is also not known. They may still be there AFAIK.
Verified: Chad was not released from his calling as Executive Secretary until after about Nov 10th or 17th, I can't recall.

About Tammy's body being embalmed:
It's been four months since J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan were last seen
"Flamm Funeral Home confirmed Tamara’s remains were embalmed before she was buried, which would reduce decomposition and potentially preserve any evidence a coroner may find. However embalming “can interfere with toxicology and blood cultures,” according to a PBS Frontline report. “But autopsies performed on … exhumed bodies can still provide vital new information, depending on the extent of decomposition.”"

Thanks for verifying. Only the belongings statement is unverified then. Hopefully all her belongings were still there when LE did the search.

 

[tresir2012]

There was no custody issue that would have "caused" Lori to hide JJ in September. You cannot have a custody battle with a corpse.

The custody battle may now be with the authorities because of the "serious danger" the kids are in from the remaining live parent. :-(

IMO there could be someone acting on behalf of that dead parent. In loco parentis - could be an executor and/or a trustee or the authorities believing those kids are in danger. The kids may not realise they are in danger.

 

[BigAl16]

Do they though when the remaining parent is having visions, wanting to kill people and maybe even accomplishing it? Why have LE said the kids are in "serious danger"? It can only be from Lori IMO.

Ultimately anything that was coming from this theory wouldn't be a custody issue in a normal sense or what most people would describe as a custody issue although I guess calling it that makes it seem better. Maybe they were concerned that CPS (child protection services) as someone suggested above was going to see these things as an issue.

I'm not sure why LE is saying the kids are in serious danger, but it appears that might ultimately be based on someone's opinon or what they want the general public to percieve. But then this brings us back to the questions others keep asking, if they know where Chad and Lori are (as has been implied to some degree) then why haven't they picked them up and brought them in for questioning? LE is obviously messing things up (and we're talking multiple local agencies involved as well as the the FBI that presumably are giving advice to the local agencies if they can't act on their own) OR (what I think is more likely) LE knows things that we don't.

If they know things that we don't and the kids are truly in serious danger then the only reason not to bring in Chad and Lori (assuming they have a legally defensible reason to do so) is that they don't believe it would do any good or they believe it would put the kids in more danger to do so.

 

[CSIDreamer]

The custody battle may now be with the authorities because of the "serious danger" the kids are in from the remaining live parent. :-(

That may be. I'm talking about why they disappeared in the first place.

 

[Onsdag]

RSBM

Have those been confirmed by VI or other source? Could you link? I don't remember those and they are pretty important. I could have missed them.

It was @RexburgSleuth the verified family friend, though there may have been others such as Maxxer500. Here are a couple links to some of his posts regarding some of the above:

"I can't say there was anything in Chad's behavior leading up to Tammy's funeral that was suspicious. I can say that my interaction with him on the day of her memorial (Oct 23) was short and felt rushed and weird. My wife said the same about her interaction with him the following day (Oct 24). That was the last I saw him even from a distance." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"Chad was there for Tammy's funeral, memorial service, and gone the next day."
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

RexburgSleuth quoting someone else who quoted another VI @Maxxer500 -
""The last time I personally was in contact with Chad was probably Tammy's funeral, and for some family members about a week after remarrying (I heard about him marrying Lori exactly 2 weeks after Tammy's funeral). He included nothing about kids and said he would never visit the family in Utah or something like that. We were all pretty upset by that, because it felt disrespectful to Tammy's memory to instantly detach from the family. At the time he was in Hawaii and apparently told his parents they were free to visit, though I don't know if they did. No one knew he planned to remarry, and we were all in disbelief at the fact that he would remarry 2 weeks after Tammy's death. (I wanted to add: this marriage, if actually officiated, must have been a civil marriage. Getting a temple marriage for your first marriage is enough of a process as it is, let alone this being a 2nd or 5th/6th marriage.)"" (Added by me - this is Maxxer500's quote, BBM)
"Yes. That sounds accurate to what I've been told as far as substance and timeline, and reflects the sentiments of those I know regarding his marriage so soon after Tammy's death." BBM
"ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"My concerns began at the speediness of the funeral and memorial service (3 and 4 days following her death respectively). Then Chad was grieving and moved out before a week had passed." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"Given she died in Idaho, lived in Idaho, worked in Idaho at two Idaho schools prior to death, it was strange to me--maybe only to me--that the funeral wasn't here for people to grieve near her open or closed casket first. Then perhaps another service in Utah for the former friends and family that resided there before interment. It just felt rushed without the opportunity for so many who knew her to have closure. It was magnified by Chad's moving out immediately." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"I am unaware of the length or additional gatherings that may have taken place in Utah, but the memorial service in Rexburg had no luncheon or other services. Yet, Chad said in the service Tammy considered Salem her home."
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"The service in Idaho was (Oct 23) the day after Tammy's interment (Oct 22) in the cemetery Springville, UT. There was a viewing in Utah the night before. I did not see family from Utah that I am aware of. I'm not aware of a lunch in Utah, but there could have been, most likely was one. Again, I may be the only one who thought it was weird to do funeral and interment there and then have a short memorial service here. MOO: I would have held a viewing and funeral services in Idaho first for those who needed closure at casket-side, then do the same in Utah for those who knew her there. I've seen that done multiple times. It also allows for distant relatives to travel as needed. A funeral isn't for the deceased, but for all those who need to grieve the loss. My sense is that I'm not alone in thinking it was weird to be so fast." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"Yes. The weekend following the memorial service was stake conference (LDS stake is a larger geographic area than a ward. A ward could be considered a neighborhood. A stake is a collection of wards). Anyway, Nov 3 would have been the next Sunday for the ward to meet. It was either the 3rd or 10th. That same day the Bishop announced from the pulpit that if anyone needed to schedule a meeting, to do so with another brother of the ward. I forgot this in the original post. Prior to Chad's departure, he was not excommunicated, but in fact the Executive Secretary of the ward, meaning he handled the Bishop's meeting schedule and such. Then it was Nov 17th or so when I heard Chad was remarried. I thought that was way strange as did many in the ward and neighborhood." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"Another was called for the position by December and we released him at that point (wards vote in congregation to initiate such callings, but a simple sign of thanks when releasing). I remember checking the ward roster (LDS Tools app) after he left and his name still being there through November. I don't specifically remember it being removed, but it isn't there now. I assumed he moved his records to wherever he moved to (maybe the Pioneer Road address?)." BBM
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

"I'm also not aware of any disciplinary action taken, informal or formal. I would think that if such action had taken place, Chad would not have been Executive Secretary up until the time he left the ward. In fact, I fairly certain I remember the Bishop saying that they would welcome him back. That would have been Nov 3rd when it was announced that another would be filling in interim to handle the bishop's appointment schedule."
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

The only thing I can't find specifically is the removal of Tammy's belongings, so that may have been rumor/hearsay that I picked up somehow. Here is RS's post mentioning it though:

"Verified: Chad left the Daybell home Oct 24th the day after Tammy's memorial. He may have returned for things later, but that is not known. What happened to Tammy's belongings in the home is also not known. They may still be there AFAIK.
Verified: Chad was not released from his calling as Executive Secretary until after about Nov 10th or 17th, I can't recall."
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

 

[indicolite22]

I seriously doubt that excommunication is going to happen with Chad until this all shakes out and settles down a bit. As it stands his bishop (and who that is might be up in the air at the moment) couldn't even contact him to discuss this or give Chad a chance to meet and argue against it. Possibly that isn't required, but I think it is.

If it does happen then typically the only way anyone finds out about it happening (both excommunication being considered and the eventual results) is if Chad makes it public, either with an announcement himself or telling someone who talks out of turn. The Mormon Church isn't going to say anything official. I don't think they'll even validate it by sayiing "yeah, we excommunicated him" if the person in question is making it clear that they were.

Why would the person being excommunicated not keep it a secret then, to not allienate their mainstream LDS suporters?

 

[tresir2012]

That may be. I'm talking about why they disappeared in the first place.

In September you mean or why they left Az? I cannot work that out either where they all were from 24th Sept onwards. There was noone looking for them then was there? Unless their disappearance got Az LE wondering. Then 2nd Oct was the attempt on BB. The jeep registered to CV had to have alerted LE and made them worry at that time. So the custody battle could also refer to BB kids custody battle and the involvement of CV's jeep (implicating Lori/Alex perhaps). AJMO.