Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

[Lionsanddandelions]

It was probably sincere. I don't if Lori has been diagnosed Borderline, but she strikes me as such, and I've talked about it here before. Its common for severely mentally ill abusers to have a very hot, very cold, reaction to those in their lives. Sometimes an abusive person can be the most caring, affectionate, considerate person in the world... until they aren't.

Interesting thoughts, Doc.

We have so many documented instances of Lori speaking negatively of JJ in the months before his disappearance...

*resentful comments made in multiple police statements
*referring to him flippantly as a "niece's drug baby"
*telling Charles she was done with JJ
* not to mention the callous actions toward JJ (taking his IPad, ditching his service dog, etc)

On the one hand, it doesn't strike me that Lori was too worried about how her comments/actions could come across to others in any of these scenarios. So maybe this strange over-the-top display was sincere?

On the other, the way it is described ("overwhelming" seems to connote an uncomfortable/odd reaction from Lori) makes me think she was acting/over-correcting.

Still trying to figure this chick out.

JMO

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

A thin mattress in Lori's room??? I can understand if he can't sleep alone, emotionally, but why not just a regular twin bed? Sounds like he's sleeping on a cot in his own home. Was*

Also, the meltdown seems pretty normal for an autistic child. I used to nanny an old friend's kids & her second youngest (out of 4) was on the spectrum. I've known her literally since the second she was born, but she still threw a major fit one day that freaked me out b/c none of the normal things worked. (eventually just had to let her scream it out in her room while I sat in the hall.)

I find it very odd that it doesn't seem like Lori gave her any activities or methods to help him when that happened other than just "medicate" him. It is odd to me that any mother of an autistic child would hire a stranger without having a time for the child to get to know them with mom still there. The babysitter says that Lori showed a lot of love to him when she got home, but it seems like just her public mom face again.

I wonder how common these tantrums are/were for JJ? Was it normal? Or more extreme b/c not only was he with a stranger but b/c his sister was gone? Did he know something but couldn't communicate it? My heart just breaks for him.

MOO

So, JJ was getting his medication? I wonder if the Nanny saw it or remembers what it was called. There has been a lot of discussion that his prescription had not been refilled (I believe it was Risperdal), so I'm very curious if that's the same one she was referring to.

 

[janewall]

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

@LDS social scientist, thank you so for these well-written, very informative posts. (I hope I linked back to your thread posts properly!) I've been thinking about a book I read on this subject and I thought I'd post about it now and add a bit to your discussion.

I read the book "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer a long time ago. It is very much a book about how personal revelations/receiving directives from God/"promptings" can become dangerous - and how this concept does have a unique presence in the LDS faith and the history of Mormonism. I would like to point out the obvious here: millions and millions of Mormons, in the experience of their faith, do not come to ends like Lori and Chad, or the Lafferty brothers - these are rare cases where their basic beliefs became very, very extreme. (Similarly, millions of Muslims practice Islam peacefully and don't become extremists, and millions of Christians don't become cult leaders.) I find it quite interesting though - how aspects of religious belief and faith may be twisted into something ungodly and dark - in these rare cases. The story of many dangerous cults are the story of how tenets of faith are distorted, and used to manipulate and harm others.

Under the Banner of Heaven is one of the best books I've ever read - and not just because it happens to combine interests of mine in religion and true crime. Krakauer, a really brilliant author, expounds on the history of Joseph Smith and the expansion of the LDS church while weaving in the story of a brutal and horrific murder "committed in the name of God by brothers Ron and Dan Lafferty, who subscribed to a fundamentalist version of Mormonism". (via wiki, link posted below)

I realize, as has been discussed here, that Chad and Lori are certainly not FLDS. Still, there are some deep similarities between their beliefs/actions and those of the Lafferty brothers. Both are stories about reprehensible motives carried out by people who believed they were sanctioned by God.

So if anyone is interested in reading a true crime story in which the perpetrators claimed the murders were a result of "divine revelation", you should read all about Ron and Dan Lafferty. I'll drop off some links, and then I have to go. (I am taking classes online and am quite busy - not sure if I'll have time to post much in the future.)

About the book:
(if/when this case ever slows down, it should make for great reading while waiting for new "news")
Under the Banner of Heaven - Wikipedia
Thou Shalt Kill

About the murders:
Utah v. Lafferty - Wikipedia
1984 Lafferty case still haunts
Blood Brothers

p.s. thank you to everyone for sharing your thoughts and knowledge - especially the verified insiders, I'm so sorry for what you must be going through. And a special thank you, too, to @Gardener1850 for working so hard on that amazing timeline.

I was thinking just last night that "if this case ever slows down" (HA!) I should reread that book. It's been ten or more years and it seems particularly timely now. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[Dontknow?]

BDP and Bipolar. There's a mania there. jmo Scary woman. Scary CD too with his grandiose vision of himself.

I'm sure their defense has been already written or almost completed by CD in his new book...

Didn't do it, JC takes the fall for all of them. They have been searching for the children all these months but can't find them since friend x or y or z passed them off and JC came and poof their gone. Something flamboyant. That's why the went to Hawaii and have been so sad since they have been there...

I don't like these people at all. jmo

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Well in this incident if it's anything like what I've seen first hand, here's my take on it.

Lori is putting on an act. It is believed that BPD mirror others, however, they do not feel emotions/feelings like everyone else, thus the mirroring.

Psychologist believe that they don't have feelings, similar to psychopaths/sociopaths. Which some BPD's actually are a psychopath or sociopath.

What this does, is that when they mirror genuine behaviors, they go overboard. Above and beyond what would be considered normal.

It wouldn't surprise me if poor JJ got reamed after that babysitter left though. One thing BPD's like to do is to build you up, make you feel great about yourself, then tear you down 5 minutes later.

Of course, this all me speculating. I could be way off base. MOO

I don’t think that she has a documented history of mental health diagnosis or treatment but I do think her history of behavior, at this point, deserves examination. This would include those who were directly in her care including minor children for the past 23+ plus years. MOO

 

[LHS]

WHOA. What is with the mirror and the small mattress? What about the medications given to him at night (makes him tired quickly and she likes that)?? Tylee wants paid to watch JJ so she’s paying a stranger (nanny, probably more money) instead to do it? This whole account gives me a bad feeling. Paraphrasing, Lori “seemed nice, but stressed with being a widow with JJ, and needed a break from him”. Did Lori just snap altogether in regards to her kids? Did she think life would be fine once she got rid of CV, got her million dollars to help her take care of JJ and live her pampered life, but then it backfired? No million dollars, a daughter who won’t comply, and a son who has special needs? Alex was there to do her bidding!! Ugh. Moo
B a r f

Not that I'm defending Lori really... but previously we had heard that the dog, Bailey, was trained to keep him from getting up at night and wandering away. Since the dog was no longer there at this point, I could feasibly see Lori having him sleep in her room, with a mirror to help keep an eye on him at night so he doesn't wander off.

 

[Lionsanddandelions]

So, JJ was getting his medication? I wonder if the Nanny saw it or remembers what it was called. There has been a lot of discussion that his prescription had not been refilled, so I'm very curious what this medication was.

IIRC, the probable cause documents for Lori's charges/arrest mentioned Risperidone. Google says that drug can treat irritability in autism. I'm guessing it's the same med mentioned by the nanny JMO

 

[DoctorAttorney]

For future reference, leave off the cap’s ?

I'm sorry, I just really, really hate when people spread lies and push false information that can have dangerous, real world consequences. The Yellowstone Death Zone hoax has become way too talked about here, to the point some people think it's a place that actually exists and it's where you can get away with murder in the US. That's very dangerous.

Well in this incident if it's anything like what I've seen first hand, here's my take on it.

Lori is putting on an act. It is believed that BPD mirror others, however, they do not feel emotions/feelings like everyone else, thus the mirroring.

Psychologist believe that they don't have feelings, similar to psychopaths/sociopaths. Which some BPD's actually are a psychopath or sociopath.

What this does, is that when they mirror genuine behaviors, they go overboard. Above and beyond what would be considered normal.

It wouldn't surprise me if poor JJ got reamed after that babysitter left though. One thing BPD's like to do is to build you up, make you feel great about yourself, then tear you down 5 minutes later.

Of course, this all me speculating. I could be way off base. MOO

Forgive me, but that's not what Borderline Personality Disorder is at all. It's also a very, very confused and somewhat misogynistic diagnosis, granted, but BPD does not entail an absence of emotions or feelings like antisocial disorders. Per the DSM, BPD does entail a lack of boundaries for feelings in regards for others, poor emotional regulation, and very intense emotions, but nothing emotionless.

 

[josephinemarch]

Not that I'm defending Lori really... but previously we had heard that the dog, Bailey, was trained to keep him from getting up at night and wandering away. Since the dog was no longer there at this point, I could feasibly see Lori having him sleep in her room, with a mirror to help keep an eye on him at night so he doesn't wander off.

That’s a possibility! But then, why get rid of that dog.

 

[KonaHonu]

Is there a legal reason that Christopher Parrett is able to say that Chad told him "the kids are just fine, alive and well" but that would prevent Chad or Lori saying it themselves?

And I am also totally unable to think of an example of a compelling reason for not showing a dated photo of the children. Anyone have any ideas???

I'm at a loss for why they don't just show the kids and make this all go away. They have a lawyer (Seth) so I will presume that he has given them advice.

Parrett can pretty much say whatever he wants. He is not bound by truth when posting to his followers or talking to media. And frankly, Chad can tell Parrett anything he wants as well. If the police/FBI question him he will probably refuse to answer and they can't do a whole lot.

There are situations where a person can refuse to comply with court orders, lie to the police, and so forth. They are limited but not nonexistent. And even when exceptions don't apply, lying to cops, defying judges, and so forth are misdemeanors. So if they have committed felonies for which it is not possible to get evidence without their actions or statements and therefore little chance of conviction, lying and defying might be the best course of action. It's hard to believe a lawyer would advise them of that but he might allude to it.

I don't actually think that is what is going on here. But this case is so convoluted that nothing would surprise me at this point.

 

[DoctorAttorney]

I was thinking just last night that "if this case ever slows down" (HA!) I should reread that book. It's been ten or more years and it seems particularly timely now. Thanks for the reminder!

Oh my god, such a good book...

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I am glad I did as well! Thank you though. I am not sure I included the ss of the vet papers before and service dog card. Including now.

It may have just changed because the listing expired. But part of me likes to hope we ruffled her feathers and she tried to remove her info. (Assuming that’s her phone number)

https://animal.direct/pdf-export.html?listingID=20875

@diggndeeperstill I'm so glad you did screenshots of the ad above when you first found it. I have just noticed that some info in the PDF changed. Under "breeder info" it still has "lolo ryan" but it says Tennessee and the phone number was cleared out. Could Lori have tried to change that info? Or maybe the breeder did to get his personal info removed? Very strange to me that it has Lori listed as the breeder now and Tennessee of all places...

 

[LHS]

That’s a possibility! But then, why get rid of that dog.

See that's also the part I don't understand in this. The reason for getting rid of the dog. Maybe she really was ignorant about laws that allow service dogs? Maybe she didn't want to keep caring for the dog? I'm at a bit of a loss in that regard.

 

[Portiz34]

I love to read- but I will never nor am I interested in anything these people have to say in their books - that's my choice and moo

 

[KonaHonu]

IF Tylee Ryan was murder it would of happen at Yellowstone Park. It has a legal loophole. It make it possible to get away with murder within this 50 square mile section of Yellowstone. J.J. Vallow would have been murder at the Califorina Yellowstone park. If you trace Lori and Chad before they went to Kauai. They left from Los Angeles by plane to Kauai. The driving time between California's Yellowstone to Los Angeles is 15 hr and 16 mins with no stops and switching drivers. This is the only thing that fits into the time fame of the kids missing and them in Hawaii. I do not know Lori or Chad or any of there kids. only been following this by news stories and web.

I don't think they drove to LA because no one would have done that. They would have flown from Phoenix or SLC and changed planes on LA. LE was just saying how they arrived in Hawaii. Phoenix is a USAir hub which is owned by American Airlines so my money is for them leaving from Phoenix.

 

[Sticksandspades]

READ: The court documents filed by the ex-husband of Lori Daybell's niece | East Idaho News

In Para 7, last sentence states "Mother is also under investigation relating to the disappearance of her aunt's two missing children."

I hope she cracks.

So is MBP now considered a POI for sleuthing purposes?

 

[KonaHonu]

IF Tylee Ryan was murder it would of happen at Yellowstone Park. It has a legal loophole. It make it possible to get away with murder within this 50 square mile section of Yellowstone. J.J. Vallow would have been murder at the Califorina Yellowstone park. If you trace Lori and Chad before they went to Kauai. They left from Los Angeles by plane to Kauai. The driving time between California's Yellowstone to Los Angeles is 15 hr and 16 mins with no stops and switching drivers. This is the only thing that fits into the time fame of the kids missing and them in Hawaii. I do not know Lori or Chad or any of there kids. only been following this by news stories and web.

I don't think they drove to LA because no one would have done that. They would have flown from Phoenix or SLC and changed planes on LA. LE was just saying how they arrived in Hawaii. Phoenix is a USAir hub which is owned by American Airlines so my money is for them leaving from Phoenix or Las Vegas. Why would they drive to Phx or LV? Maybe to attend a wedding or take care of other business.

 

[Anonymous91]

I don’t think that she has a documented history of mental health diagnosis or treatment but I do think her history of behavior, at this point, deserves examination. This would include those who were directly in her care including minor children for the past 23+ plus years. MOO

Doesn't surprise me, that it is documented. We know that both the 3rd and 4th husband were concerned for the welfare of their children, and both were fighting for custodial rights. We don't know what was happening behind closed doors though.

My ex only went to Couple therapy, once. When she was forced to by the courts. It was a nightmare for me though.

At the time I didn't know what BPD, Narcissism, etc. I was oblivious of what Iwas dealing with, I just knew we were having problems.

Looking back, I realize that the Therapist that saw us was an absolute moron, and helped her to reinforce and double down on her bad behavior.

We had several sessions, always together (never one on one). I would explain a problem we were having, and how I took responsibility for my part in it. Invariably, my ex found a way to not only throw me under the bus (figuratively Speaking), but was so good at manipulating that psychiatrist, that he blamed everything on me too. It was always one sided, she was never told once to take responsibility. Then to add insult to injury, she made sure to ream me the second we got out of there.

People with BPD only go to counseling if it is court ordered, they will never go voluntarily.

Of course, this is pure speculation. There is a lot of crossover with BPD, it can be very difficult for even the professionals to properly diagnose it when they have an actual patient.

We are just being armchair psychologist right now. When I notice familiar patterns though, I recognize them fast.

MOO

 

[KonaHonu]

So is MBP now considered a POI for sleuthing purposes?

Oh please let this be the case!

 

[DoctorAttorney]

See that's also the part I don't understand in this. The reason for getting rid of the dog. Maybe she really was ignorant about laws that allow service dogs? Maybe she didn't want to keep caring for the dog? I'm at a bit of a loss in that regard.

Lori doesn't see anything wrong with making other people distance themselves from other people that they love. Her love is, to herself, the most important love someone could ever have. Severing relationships with others and making other people sever the relationships in their lives, comes easy to her. It doesn't matter to her because only her emotions are big enough and important enough in her brain to care about.