Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

[Gardener1850]

I am glad I did as well! Thank you though. I am not sure I included the ss of the vet papers before and service dog card. Including now.

It may have just changed because the listing expired. But part of me likes to hope we ruffled her feathers and she tried to remove her info. (Assuming that’s her phone number)

Is there any way to figure out when the PDF was edited? I thought the listing had already expired back when you first posted it, so I don't think that's why the info changed.

 

[Portiz34]

Doesn't surprise me, that it is documented. We know that both the 3rd and 4th husband were concerned for the welfare of their children, and both were fighting for custodial rights. We don't know what was happening behind closed doors though.

My ex only went to Couple therapy, once. When she was forced to by the courts. It was a nightmare for me though.

At the time I didn't know what BPD, Narcissism, etc. I was oblivious of what Iwas dealing with, I just knew we were having problems.

Looking back, I realize that the Therapist that saw us was an absolute moron, and helped her to reinforce and double down on her bad behavior.

We had several sessions, always together (never one on one). I would explain a problem we were having, and how I took responsibility for my part in it. Invariably, my ex found a way to not only throw me under the bus (figuratively Speaking), but was so good at manipulating that psychiatrist, that he blamed everything on me too. It was always one sided, she was never told once to take responsibility. Then to add insult to injury, she made sure to ream me the second we got out of there.

People with BPD only go to counseling if it is court ordered, they will never go voluntarily.

Of course, this is pure speculation. There is a lot of crossover with BPD, it can be very difficult for even the professionals to properly diagnose it when they have an actual patient.

We are just being armchair psychologist right now. When I notice familiar patterns though, I recognize them fast.

MOO

Ooh I'm so sorry you have been through that, sounds alot like parental alienation too, so common but overlooked -

 

[Anonymous91]

I'm sorry, I just really, really hate when people spread lies and push false information that can have dangerous, real world consequences. The Yellowstone Death Zone hoax has become way too talked about here, to the point some people think it's a place that actually exists and it's where you can get away with murder in the US. That's very dangerous.



Forgive me, but that's not what Borderline Personality Disorder is at all. It's also a very, very confused and somewhat misogynistic diagnosis, granted, but BPD does not entail an absence of emotions or feelings like antisocial disorders. Per the DSM, BPD does entail a lack of boundaries for feelings in regards for others, poor emotional regulation, and very intense emotions, but nothing emotionless.

Well I guess that depends on who you talk to. I've talked to two professional psychologist that both told me this. I have also heard this mentioned in Youtube videos. However, I will say that the keyword is that they "believe" this is what is going on, but aren't sure.

I'm not a certified Psychologist, so what do I know. MOO

 

[LHS]

Lori doesn't see anything wrong with making other people distance themselves from other people that they love. Her love is, to herself, the most important love someone could ever have. Severing relationships with others and making other people sever the relationships in their lives, comes easy to her. It doesn't matter to her because only her emotions are big enough and important enough in her brain to care about.

I hear this, and I get it on a logical level... but it's impossible for me to get it on an emotional level, and I thank heavens for that! I struggle to understand anyone who doesn't love their children in a rather normal way. I've grappled with this particular issue the entire way through this case. I am a mother, and to see a mother behave the way she is and has is just impossible to grasp on anything other than a logical level for me.

 

[LDS social scientist]

I guess one of the things I'm trying to get at with my mini dissertation here, is that while it indeed is true that most active, mainstream LDS members are abhorred by some of the things Chad and Lori seem to be teaching and seem to have done, the bright line between what they seem to subscribe to and what the mainstream church teaches is not as easily identifiable as what we LDS members would sometimes like to believe.

For Chad especially (Lori is a little harder to say this about), I think it's easy to see why some (relatively small number of) strongly active/committed LDS members (especially those particularly concerned about the Second Coming and wanting more obviously vibrant forms of spirituality/revelation within their LDS lives) might become interested in his ideas.

If I recall right, the podcast that Lori (and perhaps Chad) participated in was named "Warrior Up." This is a phrase that I think virtually all LDS members will recognize as referring to the story of the "2000 Stripling Warriors" in the Book of Mormon. Chad and Lori are by no means the only ones within Mormonism to refer to need for LDS members to become more like these "warriors." These 2000 stripling warriors were young men, taught the truth of the gospel by their parents, who were willing to fight and put their lives on the line to defend their people against an aggressive enemy. Closely allied to this story is the Book of Mormon story of Captain Moroni, who, through the sword, defended faith, religion, and land against both external and internal enemies. While Mormons spiritualize these stories these days (the institutional church is not asking for people to be violent in any way), these are still two of the leading stories that Mormons take from the Book of Mormon and try to uphold (in zeal for righteousness) in their own lives.

Another leading story exhibiting zeal in righteousness in the Book of Mormon is the story of Nephi. Unfortunately, this, MOO, is even more problematic in regard to what Chad might feel he's doing. Nephi's the first character (and narrator in the Book of Mormon) and almost immediately he tells a story of being told to kill an evil person in order to save a sacred record for his own family. His own family is told to flee from his home and set up a new righteous society in a promised land. Though Nephi demurs from killing, he eventually does, as the Spirit constrains him to

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Is there any way to figure out when the PDF was edited? I thought the listing had already expired back when you first posted it, so I don't think that's why the info changed.

Wow I’m not sure. I’ll look on a desktop in the am to see. I don’t think it’s like a word doc where you can see the history.

 

[DoctorAttorney]

Doesn't surprise me, that it is documented. We know that both the 3rd and 4th husband were concerned for the welfare of their children, and both were fighting for custodial rights. We don't know what was happening behind closed doors though.

My ex only went to Couple therapy, once. When she was forced to by the courts. It was a nightmare for me though.

At the time I didn't know what BPD, Narcissism, etc. I was oblivious of what Iwas dealing with, I just knew we were having problems.

Looking back, I realize that the Therapist that saw us was an absolute moron, and helped her to reinforce and double down on her bad behavior.

We had several sessions, always together (never one on one). I would explain a problem we were having, and how I took responsibility for my part in it. Invariably, my ex found a way to not only throw me under the bus (figuratively Speaking), but was so good at manipulating that psychiatrist, that he blamed everything on me too. It was always one sided, she was never told once to take responsibility. Then to add insult to injury, she made sure to ream me the second we got out of there.

People with BPD only go to counseling if it is court ordered, they will never go voluntarily.

Of course, this is pure speculation. There is a lot of crossover with BPD, it can be very difficult for even the professionals to properly diagnose it when they have an actual patient.

We are just being armchair psychologist right now. When I notice familiar patterns though, I recognize them fast.

MOO

I'm so sorry you had to go through that with a partner that you cared about. My mom had BPD and it was... not great. I used to hate her, but now, I just feel annoyed she went broke and moved back to the same city as me and my family, such an annoying woman. I'm glad you're here though, to talk about this disorder with experience as well.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

For future reference, leave off the cap’s ?

Also, in addition to not using all capital letters when responding to a comment or post when quoting another, please include a link to a verifiable source. Thanks! MOO

BBM

@DoctorAttorney

With regard to Yellowstone Park, I don’t doubt that LE, local and Federal, have been combing the Park since they found this information. MOO

 

[BigAl16]

I guess one of the things I'm trying to get at with my mini dissertation here, is that while it indeed is true that most active, mainstream LDS members are abhorred by some of the things Chad and Lori seem to be teaching and seem to have done, the bright line between what they seem to subscribe to and what the mainstream church teaches is not as easily identifiable as what we LDS members would sometimes like to believe.

For Chad especially (Lori is a little harder to say this about), I think it's easy to see why some (relatively small number of) strongly active/committed LDS members (especially those particularly concerned about the Second Coming and wanting more obviously vibrant forms of spirituality/revelation within their LDS lives) might become interested in his ideas.

If I recall right, the podcast that Lori (and perhaps Chad) participated in was named "Warrior Up." This is a phrase that I think virtually all LDS members will recognize as referring to the story of the "2000 Stripling Warriors" in the Book of Mormon. Chad and Lori are by no means the only ones within Mormonism to refer to need for LDS members to become more like these "warriors." These 2000 stripling warriors were young men, taught the truth of the gospel by their parents, who were willing to fight and put their lives on the line to defend their people against an aggressive enemy. Closely allied to this story is the Book of Mormon story of Captain Moroni, who, through the sword, defended faith, religion, and land against both external and internal enemies. While Mormons spiritualize these stories these days (the institutional church is not asking for people to be violent in any way), these are still two of the leading stories that Mormons take from the Book of Mormon and try to uphold (in zeal for righteousness) in their own lives.

Another leading story exhibiting zeal in righteousness in the Book of Mormon is the story of Nephi. Unfortunately, this, MOO, is even more problematic in regard to what Chad might feel he's doing. Nephi's the first character (and narrator in the Book of Mormon) and almost immediately he tells a story of being told to kill an evil person in order to save a sacred record for his own family. His own family is told to flee from his home and set up a new righteous society in a promised land. Though Nephi demurs from killing, he eventually does, as the Spirit constrains him to

As you started talking about warriers I flashed on Saturday's Warrier (what I call my Mormon PTSD must have been triggered).

MOO

 

[Lyrarya]

Lauren Steinbrecher on Twitter
Continued
JJ'S NANNY: Sept. 24 (day after JJ went missing) nanny reached out to Lori. "...she responded to me that JJ was with his grandparents for a month and that she was in Hawaii. She said in about a month, when they come back, that I could work again. Well once that month passed..."
Edit add
J'S NANNY: Sept. 24 (day after JJ went missing) nanny reached out to Lori. "...she responded to me that JJ was with his grandparents for a month and that she was in Hawaii. She said in about a month, when they come back, that I could work again. Well once that month passed..."
1


JJ'S NANNY: "I texted her again around Halloween time, asking if I could work. There was no response... I thought it was pretty weird that they just up and left for a month and didn't need me to work ever again after just hiring me."



JJ'S NANNY: Nanny's thoughts on Lori's explanation of JJ going to grandparents home, Lori going to Hawaii: "I assumed she must have really needed a break from JJ I guess, and I left it at that. That was the last time I ever communicated with Lori."



Some notes on what the nanny said Lori told her-- like Lori's husband dying from heart attack. We know Charles Vallow died because Lori's brother, Alex Cox, shot and killed Charles. Alex told police it was self-defense.

Sorry if somebody already answered this but who did LV pick up from the airport? Was it MG?

Edited to insert LV

 

[DoctorAttorney]

Well I guess that depends on who you talk to. I've talked to two professional psychologist that both told me this. I have also heard this mentioned in Youtube videos. However, I will say that the keyword is that they "believe" this is what is going on, but aren't sure.

I'm not a certified Psychologist, so what do I know. MOO

See for yourself: Diagnosing borderline personality disorder

I don't think you were misinformed, I just think that the person who informed you gave you the information in kind of a confusing way. Maybe they wanted to press upon you that BPD causes intense but not stable emotions, and that translates as those emotions being non-real. And that lines up with what you said, so that's probably what was going on.

 

[Anonymous91]

I'm so sorry you had to go through that with a partner that you cared about. My mom had BPD and it was... not great. I used to hate her, but now, I just feel annoyed she went broke and moved back to the same city as me and my family, such an annoying woman. I'm glad you're here though, to talk about this disorder with experience as well.

Thanks. Well the good news is that I have been out of that relationship for years.

Best thing I did was to get out, and go no contact.

Even better I got full custody of our kids, without having to even ask for it. Honestly, I still consider it a miracle in my life and our children's.

I guess that's what happens when your spouse takes all of your money, and goes on a permanent vacation outside of the US?

I am glad that my life experience is useful for any possible insight as we go forward.

MOO

 

[Sltpeppa]

Amen!

Amen x 2

As you started talking about warriers I flashed on Saturday's Warrier (what I call my Mormon PTSD must have been triggered).

MOO

”I have a plan...it is better than man....” lol

 

[LHS]

I guess one of the things I'm trying to get at with my mini dissertation here, is that while it indeed is true that most active, mainstream LDS members are abhorred by some of the things Chad and Lori seem to be teaching and seem to have done, the bright line between what they seem to subscribe to and what the mainstream church teaches is not as easily identifiable as what we LDS members would sometimes like to believe.

For Chad especially (Lori is a little harder to say this about), I think it's easy to see why some (relatively small number of) strongly active/committed LDS members (especially those particularly concerned about the Second Coming and wanting more obviously vibrant forms of spirituality/revelation within their LDS lives) might become interested in his ideas.

If I recall right, the podcast that Lori (and perhaps Chad) participated in was named "Warrior Up." This is a phrase that I think virtually all LDS members will recognize as referring to the story of the "2000 Stripling Warriors" in the Book of Mormon. Chad and Lori are by no means the only ones within Mormonism to refer to need for LDS members to become more like these "warriors." These 2000 stripling warriors were young men, taught the truth of the gospel by their parents, who were willing to fight and put their lives on the line to defend their people against an aggressive enemy. Closely allied to this story is the Book of Mormon story of Captain Moroni, who, through the sword, defended faith, religion, and land against both external and internal enemies. While Mormons spiritualize these stories these days (the institutional church is not asking for people to be violent in any way), these are still two of the leading stories that Mormons take from the Book of Mormon and try to uphold (in zeal for righteousness) in their own lives.

Another leading story exhibiting zeal in righteousness in the Book of Mormon is the story of Nephi. Unfortunately, this, MOO, is even more problematic in regard to what Chad might feel he's doing. Nephi's the first character (and narrator in the Book of Mormon) and almost immediately he tells a story of being told to kill an evil person in order to save a sacred record for his own family. His own family is told to flee from his home and set up a new righteous society in a promised land. Though Nephi demurs from killing, he eventually does, as the Spirit constrains him to

This particular portion of your "dissertation" is what has led me to be extremely aware of my own thoughts and ideas regarding these very things. I do fall in the category of studying doctrine about these times. it's interesting. I think a lot of us see it as interesting. It's less easy to define quickly and easily and with any certainty where Lori and Chad have crossed the line precisely, more than it feels very much like they most definitely have. That's kind of scary for a lot of LDS people right now.

 

[DoctorAttorney]

BBM

@DoctorAttorney

With regard to Yellowstone Park, I don’t doubt that LE, local and Federal, have been combing the Park since they found this information. MOO

A park with active boiling acid and water pits, that is bigger than two states combined, is being combed, while covered in snowfall, for a crime that likely occured last September, if at all?

 

[Sltpeppa]

Please tell me why when I read stupid CP’s interpretation of what chad and Lori said about the children being alive my heart jumps and .0000001 part of my heart thinks it could be true. I know it’s not but ugh...My heart jumps every time.

 

[Sltpeppa]

DBM

 

[KonaHonu]

I'm sorry, I just really, really hate when people spread lies and push false information that can have dangerous, real world consequences. The Yellowstone Death Zone hoax has become way too talked about here, to the point some people think it's a place that actually exists and it's where you can get away with murder in the US. That's very dangerous.

I don't think the YDZ would hold up in reality. I really don't. But it's not something some whacko cult came up with. It was identified by a well-reasoned paper by a law professor and has never actually been litigated. The one case where it came close to being litigated was settled to avoid a careful analysis. So to dismiss it and declare it as a hoax is equally wrong.

There was also a potentially relevant recent US Supreme Court ruling that could be related where the state of Montana or Wyoming lost their right to enforce state law on lands related to a treaty with an indian tribe. I think federal law is still enforceable but not state law where murder statutes generally reside.

Where I grew up in southern Arizona there are numerous "Spanish land grants" that US law supposedly did not apply. These are generally 1 mile or two long and half a mile or so wide and were grants given by the Spanish crown beginning in the 1600s. They were supposedly excluded from the various treaties settling the wars we fought with Spain and Mexico and also from the Gadsden Purchase that established the current US southern border.

I got curious about these little pieces of land about 5 years ago and did some digging. It turns out Congress set up a special court between 1891 and 1906 to settle claims to those lands since even ownership claims were questionable after 200-300 years. The court basically was never able to settle all claims for various reasons. Very few cases were heard and in the end many claims remained unresolved.

So ownership and jurisdiction of those lands within the US is, I think, still questionable. I'm sure CBP goes there but I would not at all be surprised to see an international court challenge by Spain or Mexico over jurisdiction. But the stakes for the US would be high because it could identify areas within the US where the US lacks jurisdiction so they may very well avoid enforcement in those very small interior areas.

Hawaii has a few "no man's land areas" that were never covered by the Great Mahele when land was allocated because of inaccuracies in surveys which were initiated from ships' positions. Most of these are remote and irrelevant but not nonexistent.

TLDR: There certainly are areas within the United States for which there is not clear legal authority for the US Government or any state to enforce laws. I'm sure a few lawyers will jump all over my statement but there are many things the US claims which were actually given up by treaties in the 1800s and have never been litigated or otherwise resolved.

 

[Gardener1850]

Lauren Steinbrecher on Twitter
Continued
JJ'S NANNY: Sept. 24 (day after JJ went missing) nanny reached out to Lori. "...she responded to me that JJ was with his grandparents for a month and that she was in Hawaii. She said in about a month, when they come back, that I could work again. Well once that month passed..."
Edit add
J'S NANNY: Sept. 24 (day after JJ went missing) nanny reached out to Lori. "...she responded to me that JJ was with his grandparents for a month and that she was in Hawaii. She said in about a month, when they come back, that I could work again. Well once that month passed..."
1


JJ'S NANNY: "I texted her again around Halloween time, asking if I could work. There was no response... I thought it was pretty weird that they just up and left for a month and didn't need me to work ever again after just hiring me."



JJ'S NANNY: Nanny's thoughts on Lori's explanation of JJ going to grandparents home, Lori going to Hawaii: "I assumed she must have really needed a break from JJ I guess, and I left it at that. That was the last time I ever communicated with Lori."



Some notes on what the nanny said Lori told her-- like Lori's husband dying from heart attack. We know Charles Vallow died because Lori's brother, Alex Cox, shot and killed Charles. Alex told police it was self-defense.

Was Lori really in Hawaii on Sept 24th- the same day she unenrolled JJ from school? Or do we think that was that a lie? 6 days later on Oct 1, she was renting a storage unit in Rexburg. Why the quick trip to Hawaii? Or why lie about her location to the nanny? I really hope that LE has her phone pings from this Sept 24th communication with the nanny. It seems vital to know where Lori was that day. MOO.

 

[DoctorAttorney]

I don't think the YDZ would hold up in reality. I really don't. But it's not something some whacko cult came up with. It was identified by a well-reasoned paper by a law professor and has never actually been litigated. The one case where it came close to being litigated was settled to avoid a careful analysis. So to dismiss it and declare it as a hoax is equally wrong.

There was also a potentially relevant recent US Supreme Court ruling that could be related where the state of Montana or Wyoming lost their right to enforce state law on lands related to a treaty with an indian tribe. I think federal law is still enforceable but not state law where murder statutes generally reside.

Where I grew up in southern Arizona there are numerous "Spanish land grants" that US law supposedly did not apply. These are generally 1 mile or two long and half a mile or so wide and were grants given by the Spanish crown beginning in the 1600s. They were supposedly excluded from the various treaties settling the wars we fought with Spain and Mexico and also from the Gadsden Purchase that established the current US southern border.

I got curious about these little pieces of land about 5 years ago and did some digging. It turns out Congress set up a special court between 1891 and 1906 to settle claims to those lands since even ownership claims were questionable after 200-300 years. The court basically was never able to settle all claims for various reasons. Very few cases were heard and in the end many claims remained unresolved.

So ownership and jurisdiction of those lands within the US is, I think, still questionable. I'm sure CBP goes there but I would not at all be surprised to see an international court challenge by Spain or Mexico over jurisdiction. But the stakes for the US would be high because it could identify areas within the US where the US lacks jurisdiction so they may very well avoid enforcement in those very small interior areas.

Hawaii has a few "no man's land areas" that were never covered by the Great Mahele when land was allocated because of inaccuracies in surveys which were initiated from ships' positions. Most of these are remote and irrelevant but not nonexistent.

TLDR: There certainly are areas within the United States for which there is not clear legal authority for the US Government or any state to enforce laws. I'm sure a few lawyers will jump all over my statement but there are many things the US claims which were actually given up by treaties in the 1800s and have never been litigated or otherwise resolved.

Oh for the love of... You're not talking about criminal litigation and judicial application of US law in state cases or in federal court with any of those things! The law does not depend on hypotheticals from some dude on Forbes who pointed out the legal equivalent of a "one weird trick" meme...

I'm so mad, I'm thinking about being verified...

Doesn't it bother you that some a***ole could be reading this thread right now, and think they can get away with murder, if they do it in a certain part of the US? I don't want to spread that belief because it is dangerous and wrong.