Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #21

[KonaHonu]

Kinda looks like she's going toward dreads, too. Must be difficult to comb those extensions in jail.

Dreads are pretty popular here in Hawaii. Maybe she is trying to fit in with the local girls.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

I totally just busted up. We are on a roll knowing this woman is going to Idaho where as we speak it is 27 degrees with a low of 8...per me asking my Alexa MOO

It's a heat wave! Still warmer than the -14 wind chills of last week.

 

[FindingJoLee]

WHERE are the Children???
Poster just seen in Princeville

#thanksPortiz34

 

[squareandrabbet]

I really don’t think JJ is alive but the unidentified out of town visitor gave me back a sliver of hope. Alive or dead, I can’t make sense of their actions.

To your point, if the kids are alive why not provide proof of life without disclosing their location. And if they aren’t alive why not do a better job of fleeing and hiding?

Let’s say Chad’s buddy is right—Chad really is writing a book about all this and is convinced they’ll be exonerated when the truth comes out. There’s no scenario involving dead kids which could make their lack of cooperation w/LE OK. Is he too deluded to realize that?

So if there’s a book and he’s even partially in touch w/reality then there’s still a chance the kids are alive. And the people who’ve believed it’s all a stunt to sell books or attract followers may have been right all along.

I’ve been convinced they’re dead for weeks now. Once again I’m not so certain. There are so many pieces to this case and no theory makes all of them fit. Like two or three different jigsaw puzzles have been dumped in a single pile.

Maybe when Chad says "writing a book", he means "writing a book to be read and completed after July 20, 2020, wherein I shall fill in what happened after my translated wife and I, valiantly beat the United States government into submission."

It's possible, right? "Exonerated when the truth comes out" - well, we've heard all about "the truth according to Chad and Lori" before, haven't we?

What the rest of us see as "The Truth", seems to have little in common with what CD and LVD see as the truth.

Therefore, this could mean almost anything.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

My views on the probability of Lori's childhood trauma is based upon my opinions and my expertise in this area. It is conjecture that it could play a part in her behaviors. I am only having a conversation. FBI creates profiles all the time on criminals based upon prior information from other criminals because they need to understand the person to arrive at a motive. They were met with lots of skepticism but it is now common practice. I am putting it to rest now, however, as there seem to be some strong opinions; to me, it is conversation i have all the time at the office regarding clients. I apologize for making assumptions about my audience here or being insensitive.

Your professional observations might be relevant to this story. MOO

 

[OGDiva]

Take comfort. Her taste in beachwear has really gone downhill since she got married.

View attachment 234774

I was thinking her new ankle bracelets really compliment her beachwear flips, don't you think so too?

 

[chlc18]

Did anyone hear what Lori was saying to her lawyer after the court adjourned? She seemed to be flirting with him with her eyes and her smile...only it came off as really, super creepy.

MOO.

I just listened with my AirPods and it sounds like the conversation was something along these lines:

Lori: *Inaudible*

Attorney: "Ugh I'm sure he can."

Lori: *inaudible* "...so you took your time with it..."

Lori: "So we can't withdraw 5 million from the bank anymore?"
(I'm not entirely sure the above sentence is accurate but I listened several times and it seems like what I am hearing.)

Attorney: "Ugh no. Not until the hearing's over."

Lori: "Not from my own doing...hmmph."

 

[KonaHonu]

Let's assume for a moment that the kids are alive and safe. And let's assume Lori and Chad placed them somewhere because of some threat, potentially from a group of preppers that may have infiltrated lots of police departments (many here have already made that suggesting with Chandler).

Ok, so then the RPD comes knocking. It's not crazy to flee. Remember, you know the kids are safe. Ok, then a judge orders you to turn the kids over to the same police. You'd be crazy to do so. But what would you do? I think you would have your lawyer work it in the courts, secretly.

Now, I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories and I'm certainly not defending them. My only point is that all the wild speculation aside, things did not really blow up until last week.

I'm still at the 80/20 dead /alive point so I don't think this is what actually happened. But I'm trying to think through what the actual situation could be to explain their actions whether it is hiding the kids or killing them. There just has to be something more going on.

 

[Teche]

I really don’t think JJ is alive but the unidentified out of town visitor gave me back a sliver of hope. Alive or dead, I can’t make sense of their actions.

To your point, if the kids are alive why not provide proof of life without disclosing their location. And if they aren’t alive why not do a better job of fleeing and hiding?

Let’s say Chad’s buddy is right—Chad really is writing a book about all this and is convinced they’ll be exonerated when the truth comes out. There’s no scenario involving dead kids which could make their lack of cooperation w/LE OK. Is he too deluded to realize that?

So if there’s a book and he’s even partially in touch w/reality then there’s still a chance the kids are alive. And the people who’ve believed it’s all a stunt to sell books or attract followers may have been right all along.

I’ve been convinced they’re dead for weeks now. Once again I’m not so certain. There are so many pieces to this case and no theory makes all of them fit. Like two or three different jigsaw puzzles have been dumped in a single pile.

Well, if Chad is going to “self-publish” a book, he can just join WS b/c we’ve done all his research.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Campizi67 said: ↑
I also agree with these points, and would like to add a couple of my own thoughts. There is so much out there in MSM, but the info that is pertinent, IMO, is this "belief system" of theirs, which you mention, and gives major insight into what is going on. (I have added MSM links for reference to where I received my information, see below).

• CD and LVD are "sealed" to each other through some ritualistic meeting, by Moroni. They also believe that they were already married in other lives.

1. Moroni according to the Book of Mormon, was the last Nephite prophet, historian, and military commander who lived in the Americas in the late fourth and early fifth centuries

• CD and LVD are the "Leaders" and are now responsible for gathering the couples for the 144,000.

• They make charts of who the people are and how many probation's they have had and who they have been in past lives. The 12 apostles are also on this list. (Tammy was once on this list and was noted as once being married to John the beloved who was also Enoch).

1. Probation's - definition: previous lives

CD and LVD are "responsible" for deciding if a man and a woman might be destined to be together, even if that person is married to someone else. Like multiple probation's, (this is not a Latter-day Saint belief). Within their circle, this appears to be a predominant issue.

CD teaches that people can essentially be reincarnated and live multiple times — and have multiple probations — on earth. (Reincarnation is not accepted Latter-day Saint doctrine.)

An interesting note ...
CDs autobiography states he does not believe in reincarnation.

“He goes out there, but he doesn’t go that far out,” Bertram said. “He’s making some pretty strong assertions, he just knows that there’s a line and he’s going to stay behind that line.”,

BUT.. LVD, however...
The documents indicate LVD reportedly told her now-deceased husband Charles Vallow she is a “reincarnated God” who would “murder him if he got in the way of her mission.”

1. Starting in February of 2019, Charles Vallow filed for divorce from LVD and requested full custody of JJ. The court filing claims that LVD had "become infatuated and at times obsessive about near-death experiences and spiritual visions."
2. LVD also allegedly told Charles that "she is sealed (eternally married) to the ancient Book of Mormon prophet Moroni and that she has lived numerous lives on numerous planets prior to this current life."
   
3. Weeks before the divorce filing, Charles said LVD told him that "she is a translated being who cannot taste death sent by God to lead the 144,000 into the Millennium.
4. "The divorce documents allege that Lori believed that Jesus Christ's second coming would happen in July 2020 and only 144,000 would live through it.
   
5. Charles also claimed that Lori threatened to kill him if he got in the way of her mission. "I mean imagine what you would do if you had a god speak to you would start feeling a little bit empowered and it looks like that is exactly what happened," Chad Daybell's old missionary friend told Dateline.

At the beginning of CD's autobiography is a dedication to his wife Tammy: “My one and only.”
The autobiography goes on to describe marrying Tammy Daybell at the Manti Temple and working as a grave digger at the same cemetery where she would later be buried.
CD wrote that he believes their five children will have a role to play in the second-coming of Jesus Christ. Many of the characters in his novels are named after his five biological children. This info found shows why his children support him and why they are all still alive.


So it is obvious, that early on, the two shared different core beliefs, this has changed. We see the change in CD after becoming closer to LVD. remember, he had one wife for 30 years. LVD on the other hand, who at 46 years old, has 4 husbands before CD.

The following bits of info, I believe are very important, imo

• Zombie - CD believes that a person's spirit can be hijacked by an evil spirit. Then the spirit is in limbo.

1. CD told LVD that Charles Vallow became Ned Snyder and has now become a zombie, his spirit has been hijacked by an evil spirit. His actual spirit is now in limbo. (Ned Snyder?)

• CD tells Alex that he was an angel that had come and stopped Laman and Lemuel from hurting Nephi and was now Lori's protector.

1. Laman and Lemuel are the two eldest sons of Lehi and the older brothers of Sam, Nephi, Jacob and Joseph.
   
2. Nephi is one of the central figures described in the Book of Mormon. He was the son of Lehi, a propeht, founder of the Nephite people

• Alex becomes the "hitman" This is immediately before Charles untimely death.

• Tammy becomes suspicious of CD and LVD's relationship (aware they are taking trips together) and voices this suspicion so,

1. CD tells LVD that Tammy has become a Zombie. Her spirit has been hijacked. This is before Tammy's untimely death.

• Then at some point CD declares Alex, Tylee and Kay are all Zombies.

1. Tylee disappears,
   
2. JJ disappears
   
3. Alex dies,
   
4. Kay however is still alive.

Recap of their beliefs, imo...

If we take these beliefs, and try to sort them out...
1. You are like/a God.
2. You create the chart of chosen people
3. You decide who should be married
4. You then declare the other spouse/children a zombie
5. Once they are declared... their life no longer matters because their actual spirits are in limbo
5. You then file to receive their life insurance $ (because human greed always has a part to play)
6. The cycle continues.


I write all of this to say.....IMO, killing someone who has become a "Zombie" is not a problem, if your core beliefs are these described above. You are above human/earthly laws and you will be reincarnated anyway. "Death is a non-issue" Which can explain CD and LVD's arrogance and non emotion in regard to any of the missing or those that are deceased. "Their end, justifies their means" Again, all IMO.

I would like to add this scripture, not from the Book of Mormon, but the Bible.

1 John 2:15-16 - Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him, because all that is in the world is the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the arrogance produced by material possessions.

Obviously, the core beliefs of this family are off the beaten path, but it is these basic scriptural principles that humans generally struggle with and are the root causes of many bad choices and lifelong problems. IMO





Doomsday writer Chad Daybell based characters in his books on his family. Now people are reading them for clues.

Court docs allege Lori Vallow's niece knows location of 2 missing Idaho children

A look at the religious circle surrounding Chad and Lori Daybell | East Idaho News

FOX 13 Investigates: Do Chad Daybell’s books leave clues about missing Rexburg children?

Deaths, divorce papers and the apocalypse: How police reports and 911 calls detail Lori Vallow's life | ktvb.com

Case of missing children tied to doomsday beliefs, 3 deaths

Moroni (Book of Mormon prophet) - Wikipedia

Moloch - Wikipedia

Does Lori Vallow's niece know where missing Idaho kids are?

Lori Daybell's niece knows where JJ and Tylee are, ex-husband claims in court documents | East Idaho News

Lori Vallow: Tracking the Movements of Idaho Mom Now Under Arrest After Her 2 Kids Went Missing

Missing Idaho Kids' Cousin Knows Where They Are But Won't Help, Ex Says

Laman and Lemuel - Wikipedia

Nephi, son of Lehi - Wikipedia

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH @Campizi67 this is so very helpful to me personally. I have been hospitalised so I am now a thread behind but I couldn’t scroll on by without mentioning this post . Thank you

Thanks for researching the religious angle, I don’t doubt it will play an important part of this case. But, in spite of the religious “influences “, LE will initially be building cases, in multiple jurisdictions, that have a more basic crime structure. MOO

ETA: With regard to potential religious “influencers”, let’s not overlook contributions from the “head sheepdog”. MOO

 

[SuziQ]

Thank you for posting that, it clearly states right at the beginning that the children will be placed in custody care by the state of Idaho child welfare


oh thanks, you must have law experience, which I do not. I do have a son who is in LE and I know there’s no way he would ever lie to a court/judge

No law experience. Just IMO from following cases at WS.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Let's assume for a moment that the kids are alive and safe. And let's assume Lori and Chad placed them somewhere because of some threat, potentially from a group of preppers that may have infiltrated lots of police departments (many here have already made that suggesting with Chandler).

Ok, so then the RPD comes knocking. It's not crazy to flee. Remember, you know the kids are safe. Ok, then a judge orders you to turn the kids over to the same police. You'd be crazy to do so. But what would you do? I think you would have your lawyer work it in the courts, secretly.

Now, I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories and I'm certainly not defending them. My only point is that all the wild speculation aside, things did not really blow up until last week.

I'm still at the 80/20 dead /alive point so I don't think this is what actually happened. But I'm trying to think through what the actual situation could be to explain their actions whether it is hiding the kids or killing them. There just has to be something more going on.

But... but... Chad and Lori ARE the infiltrating preppers. What could they have done to tee off prepper police officers in their fellow crazy infiltrating prepper pod?

Oh wait - other than kill and disappear children, I suppose. Police officers as a whole generally don't like this.

Except then they'd be gunning to hurt Chad and Lori, not the kids. *ponders*

ETA: If they need to protect JJ and Tylee, why aren't they "disappearing in order to protect" Chad's kids?

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

I don't think we can believe that at all. I think we can say she was a beautiful woman, and she probably knew that. Some who are born with the disadvantage of being very attractive (t-i-c), somehow just learn a better way of getting what they want. I would LOVE to hear about early on stuff...but we don't have any of the usual suspects willing to talk...

I would love to know more about Lori's side of the family/ upbringing as well. Granted I'm still trying to get through these massive threads so may be unaware of info already posted...

I think her immediate family (siblings, parents) were clearly image conscience... (the fight between LD and AC in the street where she accuses him of bringing shame on the family) and perhaps not very emotionally close or honest/ real with one another. Everything about Lori screams facade to me, ton of make up/ bleached hair/ soft baby voice and tight fitting clothes. Lets not forget this woman competed in beauty competitions. People who try so hard to seem "perfect" on the outside tend to be quite different on the inside.

I certainly think she was quite experienced in manipulating others with her looks and body. I wonder if her aging/ fading looks was a real fear because she almost values that as her personal self worth?! She may have felt at times in competition with Tylee as she was growing into a beautiful young woman. This is all just MO.

 

[investigatefred]

You mean to tell me the half skunk, half wet poodle look isn't in style?

What on Earth did she do to her hair?

 

[Campizi67]

Campizi67 said: ↑
I also agree with these points, and would like to add a couple of my own thoughts. There is so much out there in MSM, but the info that is pertinent, IMO, is this "belief system" of theirs, which you mention, and gives major insight into what is going on. (I have added MSM links for reference to where I received my information, see below).

• CD and LVD are "sealed" to each other through some ritualistic meeting, by Moroni. They also believe that they were already married in other lives.

1. Moroni according to the Book of Mormon, was the last Nephite prophet, historian, and military commander who lived in the Americas in the late fourth and early fifth centuries

• CD and LVD are the "Leaders" and are now responsible for gathering the couples for the 144,000.

• They make charts of who the people are and how many probation's they have had and who they have been in past lives. The 12 apostles are also on this list. (Tammy was once on this list and was noted as once being married to John the beloved who was also Enoch).

1. Probation's - definition: previous lives

CD and LVD are "responsible" for deciding if a man and a woman might be destined to be together, even if that person is married to someone else. Like multiple probation's, (this is not a Latter-day Saint belief). Within their circle, this appears to be a predominant issue.

CD teaches that people can essentially be reincarnated and live multiple times — and have multiple probations — on earth. (Reincarnation is not accepted Latter-day Saint doctrine.)

An interesting note ...
CDs autobiography states he does not believe in reincarnation.

“He goes out there, but he doesn’t go that far out,” Bertram said. “He’s making some pretty strong assertions, he just knows that there’s a line and he’s going to stay behind that line.”,

BUT.. LVD, however...
The documents indicate LVD reportedly told her now-deceased husband Charles Vallow she is a “reincarnated God” who would “murder him if he got in the way of her mission.”

1. Starting in February of 2019, Charles Vallow filed for divorce from LVD and requested full custody of JJ. The court filing claims that LVD had "become infatuated and at times obsessive about near-death experiences and spiritual visions."
2. LVD also allegedly told Charles that "she is sealed (eternally married) to the ancient Book of Mormon prophet Moroni and that she has lived numerous lives on numerous planets prior to this current life."
   
3. Weeks before the divorce filing, Charles said LVD told him that "she is a translated being who cannot taste death sent by God to lead the 144,000 into the Millennium.
4. "The divorce documents allege that Lori believed that Jesus Christ's second coming would happen in July 2020 and only 144,000 would live through it.
   
5. Charles also claimed that Lori threatened to kill him if he got in the way of her mission. "I mean imagine what you would do if you had a god speak to you would start feeling a little bit empowered and it looks like that is exactly what happened," Chad Daybell's old missionary friend told Dateline.

At the beginning of CD's autobiography is a dedication to his wife Tammy: “My one and only.”
The autobiography goes on to describe marrying Tammy Daybell at the Manti Temple and working as a grave digger at the same cemetery where she would later be buried.
CD wrote that he believes their five children will have a role to play in the second-coming of Jesus Christ. Many of the characters in his novels are named after his five biological children. This info found shows why his children support him and why they are all still alive.


So it is obvious, that early on, the two shared different core beliefs, this has changed. We see the change in CD after becoming closer to LVD. remember, he had one wife for 30 years. LVD on the other hand, who at 46 years old, has 4 husbands before CD.

The following bits of info, I believe are very important, imo

• Zombie - CD believes that a person's spirit can be hijacked by an evil spirit. Then the spirit is in limbo.

1. CD told LVD that Charles Vallow became Ned Snyder and has now become a zombie, his spirit has been hijacked by an evil spirit. His actual spirit is now in limbo. (Ned Snyder?)

• CD tells Alex that he was an angel that had come and stopped Laman and Lemuel from hurting Nephi and was now Lori's protector.

1. Laman and Lemuel are the two eldest sons of Lehi and the older brothers of Sam, Nephi, Jacob and Joseph.
   
2. Nephi is one of the central figures described in the Book of Mormon. He was the son of Lehi, a propeht, founder of the Nephite people

• Alex becomes the "hitman" This is immediately before Charles untimely death.

• Tammy becomes suspicious of CD and LVD's relationship (aware they are taking trips together) and voices this suspicion so,

1. CD tells LVD that Tammy has become a Zombie. Her spirit has been hijacked. This is before Tammy's untimely death.

• Then at some point CD declares Alex, Tylee and Kay are all Zombies.

1. Tylee disappears,
   
2. JJ disappears
   
3. Alex dies,
   
4. Kay however is still alive.

Recap of their beliefs, imo...

If we take these beliefs, and try to sort them out...
1. You are like/a God.
2. You create the chart of chosen people
3. You decide who should be married
4. You then declare the other spouse/children a zombie
5. Once they are declared... their life no longer matters because their actual spirits are in limbo
5. You then file to receive their life insurance $ (because human greed always has a part to play)
6. The cycle continues.


I write all of this to say.....IMO, killing someone who has become a "Zombie" is not a problem, if your core beliefs are these described above. You are above human/earthly laws and you will be reincarnated anyway. "Death is a non-issue" Which can explain CD and LVD's arrogance and non emotion in regard to any of the missing or those that are deceased. "Their end, justifies their means" Again, all IMO.

I would like to add this scripture, not from the Book of Mormon, but the Bible.

1 John 2:15-16 - Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him, because all that is in the world is the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the arrogance produced by material possessions.

Obviously, the core beliefs of this family are off the beaten path, but it is these basic scriptural principles that humans generally struggle with and are the root causes of many bad choices and lifelong problems. IMO





Doomsday writer Chad Daybell based characters in his books on his family. Now people are reading them for clues.

Court docs allege Lori Vallow's niece knows location of 2 missing Idaho children

A look at the religious circle surrounding Chad and Lori Daybell | East Idaho News

FOX 13 Investigates: Do Chad Daybell’s books leave clues about missing Rexburg children?

Deaths, divorce papers and the apocalypse: How police reports and 911 calls detail Lori Vallow's life | ktvb.com

Case of missing children tied to doomsday beliefs, 3 deaths

Moroni (Book of Mormon prophet) - Wikipedia

Moloch - Wikipedia

Does Lori Vallow's niece know where missing Idaho kids are?

Lori Daybell's niece knows where JJ and Tylee are, ex-husband claims in court documents | East Idaho News

Lori Vallow: Tracking the Movements of Idaho Mom Now Under Arrest After Her 2 Kids Went Missing

Missing Idaho Kids' Cousin Knows Where They Are But Won't Help, Ex Says

Laman and Lemuel - Wikipedia

Nephi, son of Lehi - Wikipedia

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH @Campizi67 this is so very helpful to me personally. I have been hospitalised so I am now a thread behind but I couldn’t scroll on by without mentioning this post . Thank you

Thank you so much for your kind words! I am sorry you are in the hospital, I hope you get better soon

 

[Angleterre]

Please see my bolded comments below

Thanks for researching the religious angle, I don’t doubt it will play an important part of this case. But, in spite of the religious “influences “, LE will initially be building cases, in multiple jurisdictions, that have a more basic crime structure. MOO

ETA: With regard to potential religious “influencers”, let’s not overlook contributions from the “head sheepdog”. MOO[/QUOTE

This wasn’t my post
I was thanking @campizi67 for their viewpoint which I think is important but it was more the breakdown of recent events and people involved that I had missed whilst hospitalised so it helped recap .

As a senior investigative officer of many years standing in charge of 80 plus detectives and the leader of many murder enquiry investigations , I am aware that the case will be built upon a criminal structure
But thank you for your kind post

 

[OGDiva]

WWCD.... Where Was Chad Daybell?

 

[Kudzu]

Why on earth is Chad wasting his time writing a book when the rapture is happening in five months?!?

 

[Angleterre]

Thank you so much for your kind words! I am sorry you are in the hospital, I hope you get better soon

Thank you I am out now but hobbling along on crutches after snapping my kneecap! Ouch

 

[Angleterre]

Could we not wait for more information to come in before we assume that Lori's actions are the result of childhood trauma?

Yes thank you for this ....