Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #28

[Considering]

SBM

Anyway to link it? I missed it yesterday.

Not that I know. I was watching it live on TV.

 

[indicolite22]

I’m confused, they are now being vetted in MSM :

“E-mails uncovered reveal the FBI not only did research on Lori, but also her friends, Melanie Gibb and Jason Mow”

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/new-e-mails-show-fbi-researched-podcasts-

We can discuss what has been written in MSM about them, but we can't post any unpublished info about them. They aren't official POIs at this point.

 

[raysgirl1126]

I’m confused, they are now being vetted in MSM :

“E-mails uncovered reveal the FBI not only did research on Lori, but also her friends, Melanie Gibb and Jason Mow”

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/new-e-mails-show-fbi-researched-podcasts-

IMO The way I understand it is until they are named POI we cannot sleuth them here. MODS please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Sarjon]

Don't know how to quote the post from a prior thread, so I won't.

But last night there was a post that was pointing out how much money Lori is going to spend in their estimation just getting to the preliminary hearing. While I agree it isn't going to be cheap and having 3 lawyers isn't going to help keep costs down if for no other reason than some time will be spent coordinating with each other that wouldn't be needed if there was only one, I think that estimate was extremely overstated. TBH, part of me says the poster wasn't really serious and part of me thinks they were. But it makes multiple assumptions, most of which I think are probably wrong. One guess or assumption, how much Lori will be charged per billable hour, might be reasonably accurate. However, it also assumed that each attorney has 40 billable hours per week. If they're working 40 hours a week then all 40 hours are not going to be billable, so to get this many billable they'd have to be working in excess of 40 hours a week. Possible, I don't know. But I also think it is extremely unlikely that all 3 attorneys are only working on Lori's case and nothing else for the foreseeable future. I suspect they had other cases and obligations that existed before taking Lori on. The demands from those cases are part of the reason they need more time (same goes for the prosecutor).

MOO

She has three attorneys. I don't think the other poster's figures were unreasonable for three attorneys. I know that it is estimated that OJ Simpson paid his legal "dream team" approximately 50,000 a day (appx 5 million in total) and that was over twenty years ago. Granted LA attorney fees would be higher than in Idaho, but still, it isn't cheap. The OJ trial cost the prosecution appx. 9 million. Law proceedings are expensive. See below article, white collar crime, but still good examples of the high costs in defending a case. Lori's coffers will likely run empty fast. I can't imagine these attorneys doing pro-bono on a case like this, but who knows. We have some smart attorneys on WS that can probably chime in on fees, too.

edit: to post article about multi-million dollar defense costs

The High Cost Of Mounting A White-Collar Criminal Defense

 

[JujuColumbo]

Being a person who enjoys studying psychology, what I find deeply disturbing is LVs total lack of empathy or mourning... Was there ever a funeral for brother Alex?? I have a extended family member who I would classify as a psychopath who stole from her own mother and children. I found her to be deeply dangerous so I told everyone to cut off communication and just stay away...even her own children...It is a deeply sad situation having people like LV in your life, they leave a lifelong trail of victims...

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Thanks again.
I also found this one:
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION
Appears to be from 911 call. Is this correct @Gardener1850 ?

Transcript of Brandon's 911 call, redacted, is here:
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

 

[0101ABA]

IMO The way I understand it is until they are named POI we cannot sleuth them here. MODS please correct me if I am wrong.

You are correct. Unless they are named POIs in this case we cannot sleuth them.

 

[Gardener1850]

I’m confused, they are now being vetted in MSM :

“E-mails uncovered reveal the FBI not only did research on Lori, but also her friends, Melanie Gibb and Jason Mow”

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/new-e-mails-show-fbi-researched-podcasts-

We can discuss whatever is in MSM about them. We can't dig into their lives and post their personal info and things from their social media. That is the rule for all non-POIs. The police have to say someone is a POI (or deceased/missing/victim) before we can dig up court records about them specifically. MOO. I'm not a mod but I want to keep this thread from going down rabbit holes that will end up getting deleted later and make our mods cranky.

 

[BigAl16]

She has three attorneys. I don't think the other poster's figures were unreasonable for three attorneys. I know that it is estimated that OJ Simpson paid his legal "dream team" approximately 50,000 a day (appx 5 million in total) and that was over twenty years ago. Granted LA attorney fees would be higher than in Idaho, but still, it isn't cheap. The OJ trial cost the prosecution appx. 9 million. Law proceedings are expensive. See below article, white collar crime, but still good examples of the high costs in defending a case. Lori's coffers will likely run empty fast. I can't imagine these attorneys doing pro-bono on a case like this, but who knows. We have some smart attorneys on WS that can probably chime in on fees, too.

edit: to post article about multi-million dollar defense costs

The High Cost Of Mounting A White-Collar Criminal Defense

FWIW, one of the first to respond to my post was an attorney who agreed that the 250K+ estimate for two weeks was high although he thought 100K was possible.

MOO

 

[Monroe2]

FWIW, one of the first to respond to my post was an attorney who agreed that the 250K+ estimate for two weeks was high although he though 100K was possible.

MOO

Does anyone have any updates on the prelim, has it for sure been postponed

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

It’s not a complicated case that requires reams of discovery or investigation.

RSBM
Not complicated?!

I understand your comment to be not complicated from the perspective of the defense team on the specific charges not the overall circus of LVD. Just wondering if you or any of the other people experienced in law can shed light on what the defense is thinking at this point. Someone said earlier the defense will not ask her specifically where the children are or if they are alive because they don't want to or don't need to know. So a theoretical defense could be based on "the State of Idaho has no right to ask about the welfare of my kids"? Or maybe "the prosecution cannot prove the kids are not being cared for"? More of my thinking out loud...

 

[Alpha Bravo]

That was me.

8 weeks x 40 hours/wk x 3 law firms x $225/hr (google search of "avg atty fee") = $216,000.

I was serious about it in a "thinking out loud" kind of way. Not pinning any importance to the particular number but pointing out this could easily be a huge budget for the defense team before they get to a preliminary hearing. I was thinking along the lines that CSIDreamer pointed out, this is the highest profile case these lawyers have had so if they aren't working on it their paralegals and/or law partners are.

Maybe I am way off, I have never thought about the budget for a criminal defense before. And knock on wood, I never will.

IRT attorney fees that may be incurred for trials, Michael Avenatti last year paid $300k to some of his attorneys for the Nike Extortion trial... and it might not cover the trial costs much less any appeal, which can be even more expensive. Of course, he went with top end attorneys. And that is just one case in four that he faces. The Stormy trial is set for April 21, and I think he's tapped out, we'll see. He still owes $250k from the Minuitti (sp) Domestic Violence fiasco in Dec. 2018. So, just two more full blown trials + any appeals if he can find the scratch.

 

[FindingJoLee]

In October 2001, the Deseret News printed a story about Chad, who, two months earlier, had published One Foot in the Grave, his account of working as a gravedigger in the Springville cemetery (Not all is grave for a sexton). The account includes numerous stories that Chad admits are "strange." But this strangeness, he tells the Des News, is actually proof of their authenticity.

"I couldn't really exaggerate or fabricate any of these stories," he insists, "they're just too bizarre."

Sixteen years later, in his autobiography, Chad answers what he says is the question he gets most often: "What parts of your books are based on what you've seen in a vision, and what part did you make up?" (FOX 13 Investigates: Do Chad Daybell’s books leave clues about missing Rexburg children?). Well, it's pretty simple. None of it is made up.

"I don't fictionalize any of the events portrayed," he writes. "I'm really not that creative . . . My torn veil allows information to be downloaded into my brain from the other side. The scenes I am shown are real events . . ."

He describes one of these "real events" in his 2015 blog post "Eddie and the ghost boy" (13- Eddie and the ghost boy | cdaybell.com).

During one of his stints as a gravedigger, Chad buried a man named Eddie, who in life had apparently been known as "a petty thief." From the moment Eddie was in the ground, "weird things" started happening. The window to the women's restroom would crack open every morning, even though Chad had shut it the night before!!! Then, three times in one week, the gate to an enclosure was found open, despite Chad's having locked it every time!!!

"Eddie was still picking locks," Chad tells us, "despite being dead."

Then one morning the strangest thing (or "biggest surprise") of all happened. Once again, despite Chad locking the door the night before (!!!), a shed was found open and, this time, the padlock had been hooked tauntingly on a peg above it. By now, Eddie's high jinks are getting to Chad. Furious, he turns round and shouts: "Eddie, you don't belong here. There's a better place for you. Look around, go toward the light, and don't come back!"

Thankfully, Eddie listened, and Chad "didn't have any problems with the locks after that."

This is indeed a "bizarre" story: a dead man picks a bunch of locks but stops when Chad tells him to. According to Chad, we should believe it happened exactly as he reported because he lacks the creativity and imagination to make something like that up. Really? A man capable of writing a dozen novels is incapable of making up a story about a thief who keeps doing thief things after he dies?

For the non-Mormons on this thread, you should know that stories like these are very common in Mormon culture. They proliferated in the early days of the Church, and, in truth, they have never gone away. I make this point explicitly because for mainstream Mormons there would have been nothing particularly unusual about this story. Now whether they believe it or not, I'm not sure. But it's an incredibly familiar kind of story and not one that any born-and-bred Mormon would read and immediately think to themselves "OMG! Chad is a liar!"

But really, what are the other options? If, like me, you take it a given that the events Chad described here never happened, then there are really only three possible explanations for why he said they did.

The first and most innocuous is that Chad wrote stories like this to teach good principles in a humorous and engaging manner. If he'd never insisted they were real, it might have been reasonable to assume he had written them with tongue firmly in cheek. But Chad insists these strange things happened exactly as he said they did. So he himself rules out the most favorable interpretation.

The second possible explanation for Chad writing stories like "Eddie" and insisting they're real is he's insane. He wrote them because he genuinely believed he had experienced them. But to me this is not plausible. The stories are far, far too neat to be the product of a truly deranged and psychotic mind. This explanation does not pass the sniff test.

The third possible explanation, and to me the only remotely persuasive one, is that Chad made these stories up. In other words, he lied. Why did he lie? Well, I'm not a psychologist, but it seems to me there are two very obvious motivations: 1) he wanted to feel special and 2) he wanted to make money. Telling quirky tales and putting them into a book that people bought . . . Well, what's not to love?

I don't know how much money One Foot in the Grave made for Chad, nor, of course, do I really know that publishing it made him feel special. But here's what I feel like I do know: the books Chad writes and the comments he makes about the things he describes in those books are evidence that he has had a very tortuous relationship with the truth for at least 20 years. And what's more, he's fine with that. He is, and has long been, a very calm and accomplished liar.

MOO

I think that account about Eddie The Ghost was complete bunk. There's little doubt in my mind that people who write bad fiction can write even worse "non-fiction."

I can't presume to guess what anyone else (LDS or not) thinks, but I suspect I'm far from alone in thinking Chad was telling a ghost story. Kind of like a fairy tale, but the main character is a ghost instead of a princess.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Yesterday there were a couple of posts about CD & TD's son or daughter who is on a mission and how much s/he might have heard about what is going on at home. Is this usual or unusual that a child on an LDS mission did not return for the funeral when a parent dies?

Follow up Q: CD went to NJ for his mission. Did LVD go on mission? Where?

 

[Alpha Bravo]

It was grossly exaggerated. I’m thinking something in the neighborhood of 20-25K for a retainer on these charges. It’s not a complicated case that requires reams of discovery or investigation. Regardless of the noise surrounding her you produce the kids or explain what’s going on and this is down to misdemeanors. If more charges come and/or she drags these out it’s going to be expensive. Her financial sustainability will be tested.

Hmmm I'm thinking it's going to blow up and be extremely complicated. All those different LEA pow wowing... thinking federal charges are bursting at the seams waiting to pop. Yeah, she doesn't need to worry about this judge... She and Chad both are going to face a federal judge. #New attorneys, please!

 

[reluctant_anthropologist]

I think that account about Eddie The Ghost was complete bunk. There's little doubt in my mind that people who write bad fiction can write even worse "non-fiction."

I can't presume to guess what anyone else (LDS or not) thinks, but I suspect I'm far from alone in thinking Chad was telling a ghost story. Kind of like a fairy tale, but the main character is a ghost instead of a princess.

Yeah, I'm not going to let him off the hook that easily. First, he explicitly denies that that's what he's doing. He says more than once and over a period of years that he is writing things that really happened. Second, his style is distinctive and recognizable. Even when he's not writing "genre fiction," he tells what I assume are outright lies.

This is obviously just my opinion, but I would wager a lot of money that I am right.

 

[Gardener1850]

Yesterday there were a couple of posts about CD & TD's son or daughter who is on a mission and how much s/he might have heard about what is going on at home. Is this usual or unusual that a child on an LDS mission did not return for the funeral when a parent dies?

Follow up Q: CD went to NJ for his mission. Did LVD go on mission? Where?

Lori did not go on a mission after HS. She got married (and quickly divorced) to her non-Mormon HS boyfriend instead. MOO.

 

[Onsdag]

Thanks again.
I also found this one:
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION
Appears to be from 911 call. Is this correct @Gardener1850 ?

I remember it from the 911 call when it first came out. I can't seem to find the 911 call now though. It's also mentioned in the probable cause linked above.

 

[utahobserver]

He was in Idaho after CV was killed? Interesting!

Reminder me how we know this to be true?

Spoke at BYU Education Week in August 2019. No one sees Tylee or JJ after Monday, September 23rd.

The search for the name and BYU Education Week has now been removed with a 404 Error. But here is the cached link.

This is my post from Thread #16, page 36. It was confusing because the way the speakers were listed, it looked like Chad spoke on 9/21. As far as we know he did not. It just features speakers for 2019. We have speculated that Chad and Tammy may have attended the 9/21 talk, but there is no evidence of this.

Since we can't directly link to the group that cannot be named, I searched this and found a hit on the first return. I know we talked about the Boise event and I may have missed discussion on the Saturday, September 21st event in Rexburg. Please note the speaker after Chad. Also spoke at BYU Education Week in August 2019. No one sees Tylee or JJ after Monday, September 23rd.

I was curious about the BYU backpack with JJ's initials, found in the storage locker, which seemed odd to me. Education Week has many events for children and may have given Tylee an opportunity to look around. They had to have gone up to Rexburg during August to look for a place to live and sign a lease.

 

[Drc40]

RSBM
Not complicated?!

I understand your comment to be not complicated from the perspective of the defense team on the specific charges not the overall circus of LVD. Just wondering if you or any of the other people experienced in law can shed light on what the defense is thinking at this point. Someone said earlier the defense will not ask her specifically where the children are or if they are alive because they don't want to or don't need to know. So a theoretical defense could be based on "the State of Idaho has no right to ask about the welfare of my kids"? Or maybe "the prosecution cannot prove the kids are not being cared for"? More of my thinking out loud...

I just work with attorneys, I’m not one of em. You’re on the right track though. She might argue they could or had been mistreated in the past. Maybe even claim they’re in some kind of danger if she brings them to child services. Claim a hardship or blame the family court case as reasons not to produce them. There have been a few high profile cases where mothers never produced their children and eventually got released from jail. All her arguments could be completely made up but provide potential reasonable doubt if it gets in front of a jury.

The case she has against her now is not complicated. We see all the periphery noise and suspicion but she’s not facing charges on that stuff. Seriously, her attorneys are doing one of two things. They either find a way to discreetly show the kids are safe or they come up with every excuse in the book. Don’t see more then a day or two of brainstorming for lies to accomplish the latter.