Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #32

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  • #721
I noted the duper's delight SS exhibited in her interview, such a weird thing to watch. If you turn off the sound in key parts of the video, her facial expression definitely doesn't go with the topic at hand. Didn't see that so much in the others.

The family hitting the media circuit has done more harm than good. The prosecutor's office now knows exactly how to question each of these individuals in court. Let's hope they do as good a job as you all have here, in pointing out all the inconsistencies.

There is a great Ted Talk out there by Pamela Meyer on "LieSpotting." She runs through what the experts at detecting lies look for.

One of the cases she mentions is that of Diane Downs, the mother who in 1983 went for an early morning or late evening drive with her three children and shot them as they slept in the backseat, then drove quite slowly to the hospital to report that she and the children had been victims of an attempted carjacking. Two of the children survived, but the oldest died. Ms. Downs was involved with, and hoped to marry a man who did not want children.

There is video on YouTube of Ms. Downs being interviewed as well as reenacting the "carjacking" for investigators and it is quite disturbing. In the interview, after she relates the story about her children being shot and her looking behind her to see blood pouring out of her daughter's mouth, Downs finishes the story, pauses and makes eye contact with the interviewer, then cracks a big wide smile. In the reenactment of the carjacking, she is giggly and gregarious throughout.

That there are mother-monsters out there is not evidence that a mother is one simply because we suspect it, but those we've experienced to date - Diane Downs, Susan Smith, Casey Anthony (IMO, whatever the jury decided), and Michelle Knotek - at least serve as a reminder not to presume that motherhood always comes with a bond that prevents every mother from being or becoming monstrous given enough personal motivation.
 
  • #722
Snipped
The family hitting the media circuit has done more harm than good. The prosecutor's office now knows exactly how to question each of these individuals in court. Let's hope they do as good a job as you all have here, in pointing out all the inconsistencies.
Exactly. So many inconsistencies, and I wonder how much of what they said is contradicted by other evidence like emails, texts, etc. I hope they keep talking.
 
  • #723
  • #724
I have not caught up with all of the thread - forgive if this has been previously discussed. IIRC she talked of her life w/mom, it struck me that parental kidnapping (i.e.: her father) lies, deceit, & throwing shade at the other parent is the norm for this family. Honestly, she probably doesn't see any of the warning signs of danger because this is what our family does. "Just trust the kids are ok - you will see" attitude.
Point 2 - is the housing unit(s) they stayed in furnished? Vacation rental type? Did they get utilities in their names with no verifiable income? Who paid fiRst, last & deposit?
Point 3 - school would have Been free tuition (or extremely reduced) for Tylee as she was LDS - could be one draw to Rexburg. Cost of living is pretty cheap.

Jmo
 
  • #725
Exactly. So many inconsistencies, and I wonder how much of what they said is contradicted by other evidence like emails, texts, etc. I hope they keep talking.
I suspect there will be many things that will contradict these two. However, I think there will be some things that absolutely align with what Ian summarized in his little narrative to the FBI. We already know about Chad’s light and dark emails, but when we finally get to talk about Melanie Gibb in all this, it’s gonna be quite interesting. MOO
 
  • #726
I feel that to Lori, anything involving heated or even reasonable levels of irritation is a ‘threat’. Anything other than ‘yes ma’am, yes ma’am, right away, bow and scrape’.

Another possibility is that this is a card she plays, and that, by any definition of the word, these "threats" are made up out of whole cloth.
 
  • #727
I have not caught up with all of the thread - forgive if this has been previously discussed. IIRC she talked of her life w/mom, it struck me that parental kidnapping (i.e.: her father) lies, deceit, & throwing shade at the other parent is the norm for this family. Honestly, she probably doesn't see any of the warning signs of danger because this is what our family does. "Just trust the kids are ok - you will see" attitude.
Point 2 - is the housing unit(s) they stayed in furnished? Vacation rental type? Did they get utilities in their names with no verifiable income? Who paid fiRst, last & deposit?
Point 3 - school would have Been free tuition (or extremely reduced) for Tylee as she was LDS - could be one draw to Rexburg. Cost of living is pretty cheap.

Jmo

BYU isn't tuition-free for LDS students -- it's (roughly) half-price if you're LDS. At the main campus in Provo and in Hawaii, it's $2900/semester for LDS, twice that for non-LDS, and a little less than that for both categories in Idaho.

Just correcting the record, because whatever tuition she might have paid at any BYU campus, she didn't attend there. Lori's family didn't go there for anyone to attend school.
 
  • #728
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  • #729
JMO
Good summary there.

In an effort for me to try to keep things straight with all the related dead, shot-at, and missing people, I added some extra bullets underneath each pair of people. I left your original parts in italics and added some extra notes below each pair that I hope is accurate.
Its incredible to me all the deaths, shootings, and missing people that are associated with the person sitting in jail right now and her recent husband.

Chad and Lori.
She's in jail, he's being investigated for things, there's a mobile FBI lab parked in Rexburg for them.

*Chad's previous wife (Tammy) is found dead in their home shortly before he marries Lori.

*Significance to me is that nobody ever brought Tammy to a hospital complaining of any sort of sickness or anything like that. She just was dead one day in her own bed. That sounds unusual to me for a middle aged person with no signs of a previous terminal illness or a sickness of some sort. With the elderly it is probably not too uncommon, but for a middle aged person, I would have to think its pretty unusual and not very common at all.

*Lori's previous husband (Charles) is shot and killed in Lori's home shortly before she marries Chad.

*And one of the most important things in all this chaos is Lori's two children (Tylee and JJ) are missing under her watch. She cannot and will not tell anyone where they are or what happened to them.

*The story line about the shooting indicates Lori's brother Alex may have been the one to shoot Charles in self defense, but there are still questions remaining. Mainly whether or not Charles was coaxed into the home with a pre-arranged plan or not.
.
Melani and Ian.
There's 2 custody fights going on, he secretly recorded his wife, they're "hanging by a thread" and need 2 lawyers to answer questions about Melani's aunt.

*Melani's Ex-husband (Brandon) was shot at in an attempted murder.
Significance of that shooting is a familiar car was allegedly in the area around the time of that shooting.

*For Ian, I dont think we have the whole story yet of his association with his new wife Melani and his/her relationship with Lori and Chad.

Alex and ZP.
He's dead. She's the quietest member of this whole group.


*Alex was suspected of being the shooter in Charles death and he claimed self defense. Possible involvement in one of the other attempted shootings. He has died of natural causes according to a medical report that was recently released.

*For ZP, not much is known at this point.
Thanks Hatfield.
 
  • #730
I've always felt it highly unlikely that AC was murdered. First, because I think the two most obvious suspects were in HI at the time. Second, because of the circumstances of AC's death. He appeared to have died from natural causes (heart attack, stroke, PE, etc.) versus say, getting shot several times with a .45 acp...

Not saying it's impossible to poison somebody these days, just that it's hard to do so without it being discovered later in an autopsy. Sixty years ago, maybe - but these days you can't just run down to the drug store and grab some potassium cyanide or arsenic or polonium or ricin or hemlock or belladonna, etc. And I've read that antifreeze takes several days (any faster and the victim is sure to notice that he/she is ingesting more than iced tea). No, if poisoning could be done easily w/o being discovered, we would probably never have heard the names Markov, Litvinenko, Kim Jong-nam, and Skirpal.

Just for the record, there were three other suspects I had considered: MP, ZP, and special-ops-dude, but none of them seemed very plausible, then or now. MB might've had motive (to perhaps eliminate someone who could possibly tie her to the attempt on BB). LV and/or CD and/or MB could've
commissioned someone like special-ops-dude (who at one time I considered as possibly good for the BB attempt) to eliminate AC (who definitely knew a lot about a lot), but the gang would still be leaving a loose end..

But my sense that MB had nothing to do with AC's death has been further reinforced by the recent TV interviews: I just don't think she has the smarts, savvy, or skill (marksmanship class or not) to have done something like that. And definitely not on her own. And although I suppose ZP must be considered too (especially if there was an insurance policy in play on AC), I just don't see it, and for basically the same reasons I (perhaps wrongly) discounted MB's involvement (for similar reasons, I have never thought MB was in Tylee's Jeep in Oct in Gilbert - that was a one man show IMO)

I did however (and maybe still do) think there was a chance that AC took his own life. First because he was carrying around a lot of guilt (tho he also could have been a sociopath). Second, he had to be stressed to the max (think about what had transpired since July.. talk about high blood pressure!). Third, if there WAS insurance money at play, he might have been trying to get it to either LV or ZP or both as expeditiously as possible (assuming he was in the cult - also, this may explain his relatively short engagement with ZP). Fourth, AC may have pulled the plug just to help his sister (they obviously had a strange relationship; it appears he literally lived for her) removing himself as a witness to numerous crimes LV may have been involved in. He may have even known that his own health clock was running out (and maybe thought he could advance up CD's ladder one level). But, if AC planned to take his own life, he would still need to do so in a way that would not be discovered in a subsequent autopsy, or else no insurance payout (I think).

So, here I respectfully request the help of the medical experts on our forum who have been so gracious in providing their medical expertise: thank you Riverdoc, Gardenkeep, Nurse Gen and others.

Is there any way AC could've committed suucide without leaving evidence that would later be discovered in an autopsy? Are all autopsies equally thorough? Are most autopsies thorough enough to detect more than just the most common suicide methods like OD, hanging, gunshot, self poisoning, CO2, asphixiation., etc.? Would they have even looked for things like ethylene glycol, or, air embolism?

Could Alex have induced a PE by injecting air - and would evidence of doing so show up in a typical autopsy? In this autopsy? Would evidence of air embolism dissipate prior to (or during) an autopsy? Would you see the same damage/evidence in the lungs as a result of an air-induced PE as you might with a more typical PE from DVT?

And lastly, do you think TD's autopsy will be done to a similar standard as AC's (would you expect it to show any evidence of a possible air-embolism-induced-PE if there had been just such an injection of air before death?

Would love to hear your opinions. Thanks

Jmo/questions[/QUOTE

JMO, but my suspicion is that breadth and depth of autopsy studies likely vary widely.
I am just beginning to explore what autopsy findings are for organophosphate poisoning, found a couple decent articles that are available to read for Free
https://juniperpublishers.com/jfsci/pdf/JFSCI.MS.ID.555796.pdf

And

Respiratory Complications of Organophosphorus Nerve Agent and Insecticide Poisoning. Implications for Respiratory and Critical Care

Still reading, but these organophosphate/insecticide poisons are very readily available. Whether AC self administered at Lori’s direction or ZP did at Lori’s direction is anyone’s guess. MOO is that their marriage was at ‘the gatherers’ direction also. Oh, and if you do wade through those articles, “fibrin” = clot/scab protein....
 
  • #731
A woman illegally entered Yellowstone, which is closed due to Coronavirus, and fell into a thermal spring, sustaining burns: Woman Falls Into Thermal Feature in Closed Yellowstone Park

I wonder if this means the weather there is nice enough to do a search? Now seems to be the best time for LE to search for Tylee and JJ, before the park re-opens to visitors. I hope they are already searching and we simply haven't heard about it. MOO.
 
  • #732
Point 3 - school would have Been free tuition (or extremely reduced) for Tylee as she was LDS - could be one draw to Rexburg. Cost of living is pretty cheap.

Jmo

BYU Idaho tuition for one semester is $2104 for an LDS student, and $4208 for everyone else. Nice price reduction, but still a good bit of money for an unemployed mom. I doubt Lori ever considered putting out that kind of money for Tylee. MOO
 
  • #733
Since my earlier post I found a matching entry in the Texas death index confirming Stacey Cope died in Bexar County Texas (San Antonio). I've also found information that Stacey, Barry, and Alex all live in San Antonio at the same address around that time. Maybe hospice was with Mom and Dad.

Melani has some characteristic speech patterns and phrases she uses (don't we all) so "go up there" might just be her way of saying to travel somewhere.

It's possible that at 9 she may not have fully understood the situation and her story now is what she believes, possibly after being told lies over the years.

I believe that this is very likely. It's called gaslighting.

She admits that her dad's version and the Cox's version don't match up, they contradict each other.

Since she is obviously on the outs with Dad, it's possible that they have been repeating their version of events, so often, that this is now Melani's version of reality, and she feels that this is actually what happened. We'll never really know for sure, but I suspect that her Dad would give us a more accurate version of reality than the Cox's will.

My guess is that her version of events is not how things went down, but I do believe that she believes this is what happened to her. You can sense this, as she explains how she learned all of these things that "supposedly happened" according to the Cox's.

Memory is a tricky thing, if you are told a convincing lie enough times you eventually will accept it as the "new norm", this is now your new reality.

Then, in a very short time, she completely trusts them, and no longer trusts her Dad. Then at some point, her and her father become alienated from one another. I got the sense that she didn't have anything kind to say about her dad at all. It seems that she may be blaming her dad for everything that is going wrong in her life, she seemed to be projecting this onto him at least.

I would be very interested to hear from Melani's dad what exactly was going on. The fact that he won full custody, speaks volumes to me.

I think we are only hearing the Cox's version, which I don't trust one iota.

MOO
 
  • #734
I believe that this is very likely. It's called gaslighting.

She admits that her dad's version and the Cox's version don't match up, they contradict each other.

Since she is obviously on the outs with Dad, it's possible that they have been repeating their version of events, so often, that this is now Melani's version of reality, and she feels that this is actually what happened. We'll never really know for sure, but I suspect that her Dad would give us a more accurate version of reality than the Cox's will.

My guess is that her version of events is not how things went down, but I do believe that she believes this is what happened to her. You can sense this, as she explains how she learned all of these things that "supposedly happened" according to the Cox's.

Memory is a tricky thing, if you are told a convincing lie enough times you eventually will accept it as the "new norm", this is now your new reality.

Then, in a very short time, she completely trusts them, and no longer trusts her Dad. Then at some point, her and her father become alienated from one another. I got the sense that she didn't have anything kind to say about her dad at all. It seems that she may be blaming her dad for everything that is going wrong in her life, she seemed to be projecting this onto him at least.

I would be very interested to hear from Melani's dad what exactly was going on. The fact that he won full custody, speaks volumes to me.

I think we are only hearing the Cox's version, which I don't trust one iota.

MOO
Good post! I agree it would be very interesting to hear from her dad. If you knew where and how to look up court docs you might find a restraining order from dad against mom. There definitely is a reason he got custody and I think after his dealings with this family, he is now siding with Brandon to protect his grandchildren from the same fate. JMO
 
  • #735
In one of the interviews Melani commented that getting married quickly is encouraged in her religion. Having lived around Mormon communities most of my life, I have not observed that to be true but I have had a few friends that got married after dating a ridiculously short time (3-6 months not 10 days). I'm curious to hear from someone knowledgable about LDS whether Melani's claim is true. It was also my understanding that in LDS there is usually some kind of pre-marriage counseling (as in many churches) but I've never heard that it is mandatory. Is it plausibe that 2 devout Mormons would just decide on a whim to get married in Vegas 2 days later without telling anyone?

From my experience, and what I've seen only. At a younger age, in your 20's it seems that there is a lot of pressure to get married fast. It's rare that I saw anyone get married that fast though.

The older you get, the less this becomes an issue, at least in my experience, although there seems to be more of a desperation among some to get married. This maybe due to hearing that families can be together forever, every time you go to church. You'll hear this over, and over again, where if you are single, you feel like there is something wrong with you. I digress.

However, the odd thing to me, is that they got married in Vegas. That really stands out to me.

Most active members in good standing, actually will refuse to get married civilly, and choose instead to get married & sealed in a local temple instead. The belief is to get sealed to families forever, which is extremely important in the LDS religion. This obviously requires that both the man and woman are worthy of entering the temple (I.e hold temple recommends)

Those that aren't worthy to get married in the temple (and who don't want to wait to work towards that goal) will typically choose to instead get married locally (i.e. Rexburg), in a local Chapel having your local Bishop preside. They still have the choice to work towards getting a temple marriage down the road.

Also, There is always at least one reception too. This is a huge deal here in Idaho. Never seen a wedding that doesn't have a huge reception. As far as I know, they never had one that I have heard about, very strange.

Vegas would have a negative connotation to it, and wouldn't make any sense. I've been to plenty of weddings over the years, but don't recall one of them being in Vegas.

What I do recall is years ago, BYU (Utah), cracked down on a bunch of students that were trying to be sneaky with religion. What they were doing is going to Vegas on the weekend to get married, having sex, then getting an annulment before going back to school a few days later. The Church got wind of this, and made sure that students understood this is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated. They were obviously breaking the Spirit of the Law, as the Church was pointing out.

Ever since then, Vegas weddings in the LDS religion have had a very negative light shed on them, probably for this reason. Plus, Vegas weddings are seen as a quickie marriage when you are eloping; that is the other time I have heard of getting married in Vegas.

What strikes me as odd, is Melani, Lori, and the rest of this group come off as wanting everyone to believe that they are very active in their religion, and are held in high regard. Yet, they all have these quick weddings that aren't even in a church, let alone a temple? There are no guests, no receptions, and they all happen super fast.

Something feels very off to me.

MOO
 
  • #736
If IP is trying to make two women happy, he has a strange way of doing it. He talked about how much he enjoys being married to MP, because he is not judged or held up to some standard (paraphrasing). That seems to me a dig at his former wife who probably judged him or his behavior as less than to be expected and told him to get off his butt, stop playing so many video games, and muster up some ambition to better help her provide for his family and the future.

I consider everything IP has done or said within this context: IP did or said it AFTER his ex-wife notified him that she had done a little background research and found reports of very odd and troubling behavior about his new spouse and her extended family. Despite IP reporting that MP told him some very strange stuff on his wedding night there in Vegas, IP didn't appear to do any background research of his own about the woman he'd just married or the family he married into. His concern only appeared to be raised when he learned his ex-wife was on the scent. My guess is that IP already knew because IP was a participant in whatever thing engulfed or involved MBP, but that he had to at least appear to cooperate in the hope he could quell his ex-wife's concerns. He had no idea the FBI was going to be there when he went with NP to LE, so he had to develop a new plan upon that discovery. So, he agreed to cooperate, but probably only appeared to do so. And now, he's not cooperating at all; he's participating in public delivery of a created narrative.

As far as recording conversations in Idaho, it is a one-party consent state. So, IP could agree with the FBI to record his conversations with others without their knowledge. I wonder if - when one party agrees to FBI recording of their conversations with others and agrees to conduct that recording himself - the FBI can also independently record those same conversations? Could the little thumb drive device IP carried and activated as he wished have been only ONE OF TWO RECORDERS listening in on those conversations?

If so, the difference in evidence production between what IP recorded and what the FBI independently recorded could be evidence itself that will sink IP as a participant in the larger conspiracy, as if he failed to record material conversations it could indicate he is tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution.

NP's assessment of her former husband (alluded to by him in his recent interview) was right on. What a catch.

I would agree 100%. I think this was all a ruse.

The thing that really struck me, is Melani's reaction when questioned on how she felt being recorded? She seems to just sweep that under the rug, like it's no big deal. You could tell she was lying her A$$ off. Anyone that was being genuine, would have been seriously pissed off, and it would have shown. Her body language looked very uncomfortable while she was trying to downplay this too.

I seriously think that MP and IP are up to their eyeballs in this, and knew each other for a lot longer than they claim.

MOO
 
  • #737
Okay, read the East Idaho Maricopa coroner report. I agree the the atherosclerotic (plaque) vessels and subsequent mild fibrotic changes in the heart are likely prescient in many many 50yo sedentary truck drivers. DVTs , deep venous thrombi(clots) can happen if you are sedentary for long periods of time. The way DVTs lead to death is that they form in the large veins of the legs and then come loose to lodge in the lungs (put really simply). This causes the lung equivalent of a “heart attack”. It’s a ‘lung attack’ to coin a phrase, and in medical jargon is a “PE” or “pulmonary embolism.“ You would expect to find one big clots (not lots) and a dead wedge of lung tissue. To have lots of emboli, the cause is usually a chronic cardiac arrhythmia or intravenous drug use. In that case, emboli would be found in lots of other places, not JUST the lungs. Also, gastric contents in the bronchi? He aspirated, meaning he vomited and contents were inhaled. This could happen during CPR. In the lab results? What the heck? Where is the anion gap measurement? That is your first clue to any kind of poisoning usually. That potassium! That is way way elevated. I deal with live patients, so wasn’t sure if reference ranges are different for dead people, but per the report, yep it’s crazy high alright. But there is a disclosure it could be inaccurate if they collected it in the wrong tube. That is irresponsible. Why even collect it if you are going to put it in the wrong tube. Overdose of potassium can lead to heart attack and death quickly. So many questions in my mind! Let’s say, he does have all these emboli, ONLY in his lungs, at baseline and then has a big one that leads to death. He would be noticeably short of breath, likely chest pain (PEs hurt) with any kind of cardiovascular activity, like going for walks, walking and talking at the same time. JMO, JMO, JMO but this autopsy, or at least what I have read so far, does not make me reflect “oh, of course. That makes sense.” One big emboli, sure. That’s like those PEs that kill well women, bedbound convalescents, and people with known history of DVTs, but too numerous to count emboli all over the lungs, and ONLY in the lungs? 5 months? For this? Hopefully the FBI medical folks are also taking a detailed look at this.

I thought I saw that his vitreous glucose was zero. Is that normal at autopsy ?

ETA - I tried to look it up and what I learned was vitreous glucose decreases after death but it takes a couple of days to get to zero. His autopsy was done the same day. If we knew his lactate levels and they were also zero, he could have died from hypoglycemia - which Melanie's mother may have died from. Possible insulin overdose ? MOO
 
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  • #738
  • #739
  • #740
In the interview above Melani says that she went to Lori's place in early November where Lori would tell her that both Tylee and JJ were with friends. Melani is implying that the kids were not only alive but still in Rexburg in early November. She's either clueless about the timeline, is exposing Lori for lying or she herself is trying make us believe that the kids were around for much longer than we know. I think that Melani knew that the kids were gone and that she knew why they were gone for a long time. I'd ask Melani when she noticed that the children were moved into hiding if she believed that they were still there in November.
 
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