Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #32

[Sorelle19]

Agree 100%

But I'm starting to question how much Melani and Lori were actually together. Melani moved in on Nov 1. Lori got married in Hawaii on Nov 5 meaning she probably left Rexburg by the 3rd or so. Our timeline says she came back "mid November. So if that is the 15th (only a 10 day honeymoon/time for Chad to work on his books) Melanie started hooking up with IP on the 20th and they must have spent an awful lot of time together to be going to his parents in another state for Thankgiving 7 days later. So rather than the month of interaction without seeing the kids, it seems more like 6 days max to me, Nov 2, 3, 16, 17, 18, 19.

Which brings up another issue: since Lori didn't take the kids with her to get married, then who was watching them? Defies credulity to think she left town, living next door to Melani, without her kids and didn't say anything to her - their former nanny - aka, "check in on the kids," "we're leaving the ids, will you look after them." It's beyond nonsense and will never ever hold up to serious scrutiny,

 

[Sorelle19]

Agree 100%

But I'm starting to question how much Melani and Lori were actually together. Melani moved in on Nov 1. Lori got married in Hawaii on Nov 5 meaning she probably left Rexburg by the 3rd or so. Our timeline says she came back "mid November. So if that is the 15th (only a 10 day honeymoon/time for Chad to work on his books) Melanie started hooking up with IP on the 20th and they must have spent an awful lot of time together to be going to his parents in another state for Thankgiving 7 days later. So rather than the month of interaction without seeing the kids, it seems more like 6 days max to me, Nov 2, 3, 16, 17, 18, 19.

Which brings up another issue: since Lori didn't take the kids with her to get married, then who was watching them? Defies credulity to think she left town, living next door to Melani, without her kids and didn't say anything to her - their former nanny - aka, "check in on the kids," "we're leaving the ids, will you look after them." It's beyond nonsense and will never ever hold up to serious scrutiny,

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yeah, I think you've encapsulated some things fairly well. Mormonism in general is heavy on progression and these Chad/Lori types seem to take things a step or two, or three ... further.

I don't recall commenting about progression within the LDS hierarchy in the way that you've indicated, but perhaps I said something that I don't remember now. And I probably wouldn't phrase the issue quite in the way you have: "things one can do to achieve higher position and power" within the hierarchy of the mainstream church. There might be some base requirements for a role in the hierarchy, but many, many men would meet those base requirements. I don't think there's anything like a formula for advancement in the hierarchy by following a certain set of steps.

I

I probably should not have isolated this topic to you.... I do know there have been others too... I just always do read your comments as having such knowledge of the Church and some of the purpose of the extended believers. So let me ask you your opinion on this.... i would appreciate your response. Do you think that a part of Melani's being so vocal at this time, is also to help her assure herself as secure within the mainstream church, by dissing any cult behavior???

 

[FindingJoLee]

But does the general public and potential jurers watch MSM interviews, or study this stuff like we do here. This is their mission--slant public opinion and taint the jury pool.

Can you just see the difficulty getting a jury of unbiased people in this case?

As we have elaborated many times---> you have to truly be brilliant to keep up with all the weeds, details and facts to keep this whole story straight. What if everything gets so confusing that jurors will just go with "not enough evidence". oh god.

It is insanely difficult to keep up with this. I've read every post in 32 threads; I've looked at countless (not nearly all) news articles and videos; I periodically refer back to many forms of timelines, both text and visual; I've had quite a few conversations with people about this case -- I've explained it start-to-present as best I could to two different groups of people (I'm sure some of you have done that, but if not, it took hours.) I'm LDS and my first post here explains some of what I think is relevant, but that also gives me a shorthand to understand some aspects of this case (and also a shorthand to shake my head in confusion at other aspects.) I've mentioned before that I know enough of the players involved(five, and have met three others) to keep them, and their relationships to one another, straight in my head. I also have a pretty extensive file saved of the things I know to be factual. I try to stay away from following emotional discussions about the case (I don't follow it on FB for instance except to go view Nate or Justin's broadcasts.). I avoid reading people's opinions about what went on (except here, where I think there's a heavy measure of facts driving those opinions.) And I try to avoid too much thinking about experiences I 'remember' because I know I have remembered some things wrong.) I think a lot of people posting here could say the same kinds of things -- I'm preaching to the choir about being very, very familiar with this subject.

And yet...I am still very much, "in the weeds." I am not one bit closer to an understanding of what has happened to Tylee and JJ than I was back in December when I first learned they had vanished. I have no idea what is going on with Lori, what happened to make her do this, what is wrong with her. I don't understand what happened to Charles or even to Colby. WHY?? HOW did this all happen??? I try to understand it with simple concepts (money, mental health, etc.) and it just snowballs quickly into all kinds of other questions for me.

It's going to be very hard to find a jury that is not only unbiased but also able to sort through the amount of and variety of information presented. It's going to be exhausting and, unless something really straightforward comes along that nobody posting here or anywhere else saw coming, it's going to take FOREVER.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Agree 100%

But I'm starting to question how much Melani and Lori were actually together. Melani moved in on Nov 1. Lori got married in Hawaii on Nov 5 meaning she probably left Rexburg by the 3rd or so. Our timeline says she came back "mid November. So if that is the 15th (only a 10 day honeymoon/time for Chad to work on his books) Melanie started hooking up with IP on the 20th and they must have spent an awful lot of time together to be going to his parents in another state for Thankgiving 7 days later. So rather than the month of interaction without seeing the kids, it seems more like 6 days max to me, Nov 2, 3, 16, 17, 18, 19.

Melani didn't leave her home in Rexburg for Thanksgiving in Phoenix until about Nov. 25, and Lori returned mid-November so they should have had a bit more overlap as neighbors.

 

[MadTing]

What was melanie doing for income at the time, did she have a job in rexburg? how was and is she supporting herself?

 

[Tortoise]

What was melanie doing for income at the time, did she have a job in rexburg? how was and is she supporting herself?

One of BB's court documents stated that she had a large sum of money, I don't know if the money was from their divorce.

 

[squareandrabbet]

It is insanely difficult to keep up with this. I've read every post in 32 threads; I've looked at countless (not nearly all) news articles and videos; I periodically refer back to many forms of timelines, both text and visual; I've had quite a few conversations with people about this case -- I've explained it start-to-present as best I could to two different groups of people (I'm sure some of you have done that, but if not, it took hours.) I'm LDS and my first post here explains some of what I think is relevant, but that also gives me a shorthand to understand some aspects of this case (and also a shorthand to shake my head in confusion at other aspects.) I've mentioned before that I know enough of the players involved(five, and have met three others) to keep them, and their relationships to one another, straight in my head. I also have a pretty extensive file saved of the things I know to be factual. I try to stay away from following emotional discussions about the case (I don't follow it on FB for instance except to go view Nate or Justin's broadcasts.). I avoid reading people's opinions about what went on (except here, where I think there's a heavy measure of facts driving those opinions.) And I try to avoid too much thinking about experiences I 'remember' because I know I have remembered some things wrong.) I think a lot of people posting here could say the same kinds of things -- I'm preaching to the choir about being very, very familiar with this subject.

And yet...I am still very much, "in the weeds." I am not one bit closer to an understanding of what has happened to Tylee and JJ than I was back in December when I first learned they had vanished. I have no idea what is going on with Lori, what happened to make her do this, what is wrong with her. I don't understand what happened to Charles or even to Colby. WHY?? HOW did this all happen??? I try to understand it with simple concepts (money, mental health, etc.) and it just snowballs quickly into all kinds of other questions for me.

It's going to be very hard to find a jury that is not only unbiased but also able to sort through the amount of and variety of information presented. It's going to be exhausting and, unless something really straightforward comes along that nobody posting here or anywhere else saw coming, it's going to take FOREVER.

Any article I send my best friend, whom I grant is a very clever chap, he says 2 things:

1. ‘I’m waiting for the movie!’
2. ‘R.I.P., Tylee and JJ!’

The articles are few and far between for just that reason: but he’s not particularly confused.

I also read the comments sections on EIN; most people there, unless they are rarities in the Barry Cox mold, don’t seem fooled either, FWIW.

 

[Riverdoc]

I believe it has been said that Ammon is an important site in fringe LDS prophecy (IMO, MOO, JMO).

I also don’t know how my interpretation fits with the ‘Uncles’, because I thought the ‘Uncles’ were unbelieving meanie-means Charles and AdC.? Unless Ian, too, is confused.

I assume Chad and Alex were the “uncles”

 

[Tortoise]

One of BB's court documents stated that she had a large sum of money, I don't know if the money was from their divorce.

I've found the source for this - "In addition, Mother had over $200,000 at her disposal and if she was not involved in the attempt on Father's life and felt that Father was wrongfully withholding the children or violating court orders, she had sufficient monies to retain counsel at that time. Rather, she chose to flee Arizona's jurisdiction under the cover of night. "

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

I

I probably should not have isolated this topic to you.... I do know there have been others too... I just always do read your comments as having such knowledge of the Church and some of the purpose of the extended believers. So let me ask you your opinion on this.... i would appreciate your response. Do you think that a part of Melani's being so vocal at this time, is also to help her assure herself as secure within the mainstream church, by dissing any cult behavior???

I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ll try to answer as best as I can. Imo should disciplinary actions be sought after through the LDS with this case or MP custody case, since most things come out in the media, she is trying to save her skin. Whether or not there will be actions taken is unknown. Even if there is action taken, she may not be excommunicated. Just because MP is claiming one thing does not necessarily mean it rings true. She may not even be following any religion at this point (or just Chad’s teachings, it’s really hard to say) and claiming so just to get sympathy from those who are religious or knew her at one point when she was actively participating in LDS religion. All jmo

 

[Tortoise]

Melani didn't leave her home in Rexburg for Thanksgiving in Phoenix until about Nov. 25, and Lori returned mid-November so they should have had a bit more overlap as neighbors.

And she was there at least for the four days between Mon 28th and Thu 31st October. Those are the respective dates she signed the lease and flew back to AZ. She said in her interview with Nate Eaton that she spent a weekend up there so we might add on another 2-3 days to that and make it a week.

"I did go visit Lori for a weekend up there (in Rexburg). She said, “Just come. Try out somewhere new and come see if you like it up here.”

"JJ is either doing some type of therapy or with a nanny or in a school that will help him. So if I didn’t see him, I wasn’t asking, “Where is he?” I just have always trusted her."

 

[Tortoise]

Oh yes, then there was this in the 12 News interview -

IP: "I drove from Idaho with my kids, she was on her way down to take care of — to wrap up her business with her old house that she moved out of."

Sure.

MOO

 

[Diddian]

Any article I send my best friend, whom I grant is a very clever chap, he says 2 things:

1. ‘I’m waiting for the movie!’
2. ‘R.I.P., Tylee and JJ!’

The articles are few and far between for just that reason: but he’s not particularly confused.

I also read the comments sections on EIN; most people there, unless they are rarities in the Barry Cox mold, don’t seem fooled either, FWIW.

Yes, I agree. There are a lot of potential rabbit holes in this case, but I'm guessing there will be plenty that will eventually support convictions on conspiracy to murder and attempted murder (more so AFAIK on the death of Charles Vallow and attempted murder of BB; we don't know the results of TD's autopsy, investigators are only recently looking at the death of Joe Ryan, and there is much that remains obscured about the missing children). The folks who investigate and put these cases together for trial are experienced in presenting all the detailed evidence, but also presenting the big picture built from that evidence.

All that said, UNLESS the children's bodies or otherwise irrefutable evidence is found that indicates the children are dead, I think it would be unwise for prosecutors to seek the death penalty against LVD because I think history tells us that, in a jury of 12, there may often be at least one who changes the standard for guilt to something much higher than "beyond a reasonable doubt" with respect to the totality of the evidence when the death penalty is on the table in relation to an attractive female who is adept at playing the vulnerable victim.

All MOO.

 

[Gigi3]

Which brings up another issue: since Lori didn't take the kids with her to get married, then who was watching them? Defies credulity to think she left town, living next door to Melani, without her kids and didn't say anything to her - their former nanny - aka, "check in on the kids," "we're leaving the ids, will you look after them." It's beyond nonsense and will never ever hold up to serious scrutiny,

Great points! Melani knew they were going back to Kauai, but she never asked if the kids would go too? Or who would the kids stay with while they were to be gone indefinitely? C’mon, not buying that for a second!!! MOO

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
I was thinking about something that could be done that would put pressure on all of them which could cause one of them to finally come clean to LE and help this case along.

Here is the thing. My impression is that most of the people that are close to LV all seem to be in the "Avoid LE and dont tell LE what happened to the kids" camp.

They seem to all be like minded as we have seen MP and IP more or less defend LV in the latest interview.

And they definitely have strong religious beliefs in either the "cult", LDS, or some variation of it. No matter what we want to call it, they are strong in their beliefs of "it".

So how can LE hit them where it hurts to put pressure on them. I think the biggest thing that could be done right now which would take some coordination with the church is for the LDS church to formally kick them out of the church. LDS cannot like all this negative attention and they have to be aware of LV's situation and C's books that he wrote. They would have valid reasons to be able to disassociate themselves with LV and C. Im not sure if they would have enough to do that to MP and IP but they could have one of their higher ups call them to the church for a sit-down to ask them where the kids are. A high upstanding official with the LDS church calling them in for a personal conference may have more effect than if LE did it.

If some of them became aware that the LDS church themselves was disowning them, then their life purpose and the reason for them even being in that state would get thrown out the window and they may decide to open up. Or at least one of them may. The weakest link of them. And that is all LE needs is the weakest link to come forward and tell the truth.

A more simpler way to put pressure on them is if LE would file more serious charges against one of them that is not yet in jail. So maybe LE is still waiting for more evidence to be obtained. I keep waiting for more serious charges to drop on someone or even LV and yet we wait.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Great points! Melani knew they were going back to Kauai, but she never asked if the kids would go too? Or who would the kids stay with while they were to be gone indefinitely? C’mon, not buying that for a second!!! MOO

Okay, media people, we know you follow this forum. Somebody please just ask this simple question so we can see any/some of Lori's family members answer it.

 

[FindingJoLee]

JMO
I was thinking about something that could be done that would put pressure on all of them which could cause one of them to finally come clean to LE and help this case along.

Here is the thing. My impression is that most of the people that are close to LV all seem to be in the "Avoid LE and dont tell LE what happened to the kids" camp.

They seem to all be like minded as we have seen MP and IP more or less defend LV in the latest interview.

And they definitely have strong religious beliefs in either the "cult", LDS, or some variation of it. No matter what we want to call it, they are strong in their beliefs of "it".

So how can LE hit them where it hurts to put pressure on them. I think the biggest thing that could be done right now which would take some coordination with the church is for the LDS church to formally kick them out of the church. LDS cannot like all this negative attention and they have to be aware of LV's situation and C's books that he wrote. They would have valid reasons to be able to disassociate themselves with LV and C. Im not sure if they would have enough to do that to MP and IP but they could have one of their higher ups call them to the church for a sit-down to ask them where the kids are. A high upstanding official with the LDS church calling them in for a personal conference may have more effect than if LE did it.

If some of them became aware that the LDS church themselves was disowning them, then their life purpose and them even being in that state would get thrown out the window and they may decide to open up. Or at least one of them may. The weakest link of them. And that is all LE needs is the weakest link to come forward and tell the truth.

A more simpler way to put pressure on them is if LE would file more serious charges against one of them that is not yet in jail. So maybe LE is still waiting for more evidence to be obtained. I keep waiting for more serious charges to drop on someone or even LV and yet we wait.

I don't know a lot of people who have committed serious crimes, Federal crimes, murders, etc. Thankfully I don't think any of my distant cousins have ever cooked meth in their garage. In other words, my experience level here is not too big.

But I'm not familiar with any criminal situations where there was an excommunication before legal adjudication, unless the person wanted it that way. There are a lot of good reasons for that. Just one reason that springs to mind in this particular case is that it is going to be tried in places that are heavily LDS. After this case is adjudicated ("eventually"), nobody would want to have it fall apart because potential jurors were seen as using that action as support for guilty verdicts.

I'm totally down for somebody being charged with a more serious crime in this case, however.

 

[Hatfield]

I don't know a lot of people who have committed serious crimes, Federal crimes, murders, etc. Thankfully I don't think any of my distant cousins have ever cooked meth in their garage. In other words, my experience level here is not too big.

But I'm not familiar with any criminal situations where there was an excommunication before legal adjudication, unless the person wanted it that way. There are a lot of good reasons for that. Just one reason that springs to mind in this particular case is that it is going to be tried in places that are heavily LDS. After this case is adjudicated ("eventually"), nobody would want to have it fall apart because potential jurors were seen as using that action as support for guilty verdicts.

I'm totally down for somebody being charged with a more serious crime in this case, however.

Very good points.
Im sure it becomes a sticky situation for the church. They surely cannot like the negative attention being brought their way but they may have to wait for official convictions before they would take any formal actions to kick out a member.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I also think this story is much broader and more widespread and involving far more people than have been identified. I think there are some rich people involved who may be funding things. They can't bail Lori out because they don't want to be traced. No conspiracies or secret societies, just groups we already know about and talk about openly on here. I just think there are many more people involved than we think.

Agreed. Funding things and helping with planning, as in the Boudreaux shooting.