Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #34

[FindingJoLee]

Lori would get survivors benefits from Charles b/c she's caring for a minor child with disabilities?

I don't believe widows normally get SS survivor benefits if they are under 60. JJ might because he is Charles' only minor child.

Lori might be (probably was) the payee for any/all of the children's payments, but I don't think she would be entitled to SS benefits herself.

 

[Colorado303]

I'm saying exactly what is written in the probable cause affidavit. MG did not lie when the Gilbert police contacted her on the phone. She said JJ wasn't with her and had not been with her. Police knew immediately that Lori had lied because of MG telling the truth in that phone call. She later (on Dec 6th) contacted the Rexburg police to tell them that Lori and Chad had asked her to lie for them and she declined: https://s3-assets.eastidahonews.com...04/Affidavit-of-Probable-Cause-5-781x1024.jpg

I'm not sure, but sounds like some people are saying that the delay between when MG talked to the Gilbert police and the date when she voluntarily contacted the Rexburg police (2 different LE agencies in different states) and gave them more info is somehow suspicious and means she covered for the POI's at first? Is that what you are saying? I guess we will have to agree to disagree if that's what you think, as I don't see any evidence of collusion happening on the part of MG simply because it took her a few days to go to the Rexburg police and volunteer more info about the calls from Lori and Chad.

MOO.

Yes, there are things that MG might have done that could have prevented whatever happened to JJ from happening. It seems she knows that and is to whatever degree beating herself up for it. As I’m sure a number of other friends and family members are. It’s not helpful for us to criticize them. And, as someone posted earlier, this kind of bashing does nothing to encourage others w/information to come forward. Nothing!

It’s human nature to want to place blame, but lets direct it it where it belongs. On Lori and Chad. And IMO Chandler PD who had they investigated Charles’ death properly would likely have prevented whatever happened to JJ AND Tylee from happening. And Tammy might even still be alive.

I suspect it would be a struggle for many of us to process suspected evil behavior from someone we “know well”, trust, respect and/or love. Compared to LE who had no such attachment to Lori and Alex and are trained and paid to be suspicious, recognize illegal acts and arrest criminals.

ETA MOO

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

This is something that doesn't quite ring true to me. MG knew about all this when she went with Lori to the police back in February 2019 She knew Chad and Lori were having an affair and that Charles was making these accusations then. If she had spoken up, Charles would still be alive and possibly so would JJ, Tylee and Tammy. Instead, she carried on doing podcasts with them and endorsing their crazy beliefs. I hope she tells us what the May 2019 family emergency was that stopped Chad appearing at a conference at that time. I am not happy at all about her role in this. What did she think about the 2nd Oct shooting attempt on BB after Charles' killing in July? Maybe these events are still to be discussed. MOO.

Reminds me of the saying about (paraphrasing), “The only way for evil to win, is for good people to stand by and do nothing.”

 

[Gardener1850]

In case you are thinking I was confusing the two, I was not. My recent comments reflect that I believe the MG interviews are intended to draw out some people (MBP, IP, the one remaining person of the original group of 6, and perhaps some associates of Chad's) to give them one last chance at some level of immunity or reduced responsibility for criminality if they will tell what they know that might in some way serve to help locate the children or their remains and to serve as prosecution witness(es) against the primary actors.

I hope they will do so.

No it wasn't directed towards you or anyone really... but I know there was confusion in the beginning of this case where some people thought MG was Lori's niece MB. This case has so many people to keep straight that I can see where someone might still make that mistake. I'm going to delete my comment, however, as I don't want anyone to think I'm calling them out specifically. Thanks.

 

[tresir2012]

To me, this is a bit confusing when she said this...

Gibb says despite everything that has happened, she still loves Chad and Lori. She says she hopes they will repent, tell the truth and confess to authorities any wrongdoings they have done.

“I’m only here to share the truth because of those that passed away, and that justice needs to be served. … But if you’re Lori … She’s got to admit that these people are dead and it was because of their teachings and their ideas that they had these things happen. … You would have to admit you actually had something to do with the death of your family,” Gibb says. “It would be hard to say, ‘My belief systems are false.'”

She continues, “I do feel sorrow for everybody involved. … Everybody’s hurting from this. … She’s in … jail now. She doesn’t get to be with Chad, who she loves. That’s what she wanted so badly, and now she can’t even be with him. It was a fatal attraction that led to their separation and people passing away. It’s a tragic, tragic story.”

Part 2: Melanie Gibb describes zombies, JJ's disappearance and the 'fatal attraction' between Chad and Lori Daybell | East Idaho News

Now why does she feel sorry for Lori not being able to be with Chad? That is crazy - MG herself says it was a fatal attraction that ended with people dying. Why does she have any sympathy for either of them? She should be so angry at them both now. And at them using and trying to make an accomplice out of her.

 

[Daylily]

I wonder what else this fringe group believes? I think some of us had went down that rabbit hole previously. I am curious if anyone else, other than CD, has been teaching about these "zombies" though, that is some next level craziness.

MOO[/QUOTE]
I had never heard of multiple mortal probations before this case, but it turns out I have a family member who is very familiar with the idea. She is also involved with some energy healing work and other things/groups that have been mentioned previously, including having read at least one book by Chad. (Didn’t know any of this before Feb this year). She meets with a group of friends in Utah often to discuss “gospel” topics. I think some of the beliefs are more widespread than regular church members would imagine. MOO

 

[Colorado303]

Interesting that the interview cuts off at 29:00 mins in, and text is posted on the screen before the interview resumes.

MG was saying that Lori talked to her in a phone call about going on a trip to California with Chad's kids. She's not sure if it was in the first call or when she was driving to AZ. Then she says the police called within half an hour to an hour after Lori's call.

Then the writing pops up on screen: -

Screen 1 - "Melanie says she spoke with police that day and the focus of their investigation turned back to Lori in Rexburg."

Screen 2 - "Lori told Melanie that JJ was in danger, Kay and others were trying to kidnap him and, for Melanie's safety, Lori could not say where he was."

The interview resumes and MG talks about talking to her really good friend about her doubts. I think there might be some material cut out in the next sentence too.

It makes me think they have taken legal advice.

MOO

And/or omitting info so as not to jeopardize the investigation. Nate has a valuable relationship w/local LE — one I’m sure he’d like to preserve. Plus he seems to want to see Lori and Chad locked up as much as we do. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn he let LE review the video in advance for precisely those reasons.

 

[Hatfield]

I'm saying exactly what is written in the probable cause affidavit. MG did not lie when the Gilbert police contacted her on the phone. She said JJ wasn't with her and had not been with her. Police knew immediately that Lori had lied because of MG telling the truth in that phone call. She later (on Dec 6th) contacted the Rexburg police to tell them that Lori and Chad had asked her to lie for them and she declined: https://s3-assets.eastidahonews.com...04/Affidavit-of-Probable-Cause-5-781x1024.jpg

I'm not sure, but sounds like some people are saying that the delay between when MG talked to the Gilbert police and the date when she voluntarily contacted the Rexburg police (2 different LE agencies in different states) and gave them more info is somehow suspicious and means she covered for the POI's at first? Is that what you are saying? I guess we will have to agree to disagree if that's what you think, as I don't see any evidence of collusion happening on the part of MG simply because it took her a few days to go to the Rexburg police and volunteer more info about the calls from Lori and Chad.

MOO.

I would have hoped she would have called LE herself right after she hung up with Chad and not wait for them to contact her. But I suppose we all think we would have done differently and when faced with it, maybe she did about average for a person.

Thanks everyone for helping to clarify. Ive not been able to follow this case as much as some of our case experts here. Its been both scary and sad, but a little bit fascinating in a bizarre sort of way.

 

[OGDiva]

That's one way to look at it. However, the lives of children are at stake! MG even said she had a sinking feeling in her gut when Chad called her and asked her not to talk to police. She knew something was wrong. Honestly, she knew something was wrong when Lori said JJ had become a zombie.

I'm not condemning MG like she's a criminal. But I am very disappointed at all the missed opportunities to stop this runaway train before it got too far out of hand.

I imagine that knowledge is going to be painful and difficult for MG to have to live with for the rest of her life.

 

[tresir2012]

MG says that Lori wanted Chad to move to Arizona but Chad told her that she needed to move too Rexburg. So she wasn't running to Rexburg b/c of threats from Charles family, like Lori's family claims. She seemed to want to stay in Arizona and didn't want to go to Rexburg. She wasn't scared at all. She went there because Chad told her that is where she needs to be. MOO

So why did Melani and Alex go to Rexburg? Did Chad tell them to go as well?

 

[watergirl62]

I can't find it now, but I remember reading some crazy website many years ago talking about someone who lived on multiple planets (past lives), and claimed he was an alien.

It was so bizarre and entertaining to read. This "alien" was claiming that you became enlightened every time that you were "reborn", and that you remembered your past lives when you progressed far enough. The site was very entertaining, but I haven't been able to find it. This was several years ago.

My point is, there is a bunch of this insane stuff out there, and CD could have either read some of this stuff, or just made it up entirely, who's to say.

It seems that the fringe ideas he is teaching are a grab bag of different things, from all kinds of things. Everything from Satanism, Aliens, Ghost stories, NDE, obscure LDS stories, Dungeons and Dragons, a little Highlander, and who knows what else. This would be great for some off the wall fictional story, but what is scary is that this is real life.

What's amazing is the amount of people that actually believe this stuff? It boggles the mind. I think that certain people are too "open-minded", and to fast to "suspend belief", and don't try to question any of this.

MOO

Ha, yeah I once dated a guy who told me my middle school-aged kids were star seeds. Pretty sure he meant the reptilian variety. I broke it off right after that 'share.'

eta: I don't get how Lori, who was reportedly such a great mom, could put any man before her kids. My brain just doesn't go there.

 

[FindingJoLee]

I got the impression that MG was being a bit vague about their beliefs because she still believes some of it, but doesn’t want to admit to having beliefs not in harmony with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. She didn’t come right out and say which parts she thought were true and which were false. In fact, she just said they were new, which leads me to believe she still thinks parts of Chad’s teachings are true. It reminds me of a family member I have who has recently admitted to believing in multiple probations and some energy work (she also has been involved with PaP and reads all the end of days dream books). I don’t know if she won’t share her full beliefs because she doesn’t want to sound crazy, or if it’s more of not casting pearls before swine kind of thing. I’m very anxious to see if MG is more specific

I had never heard of multiple mortal probations before this case, but it turns out I have a family member who is very familiar with the idea. She is also involved with some energy healing work and other things/groups that have been mentioned previously, including having read at least one book by Chad. (Didn’t know any of this before Feb this year). She meets with a group of friends in Utah often to discuss “gospel” topics. I think some of the beliefs are more widespread than regular church members would imagine. MOO

I believe this, too. Even though I can't even tell you the number of times members of the Church are warned about this in a general sense. (Not: Stay away from That Specific Group, so much as: Stay away from Things Like That.)

It's easy for us to see this when we're not in the middle of it, though, I guess? It's human nature, when people are warned about something, they always think the warnings are directed to someone else. When someone says "That property over there is full of chiggers and ticks, stay away" our human nature tells us they are trying to keep someone else off that property.

 

[longtimereader]

Being sealed in a temple is significantly different than a civil wedding in say Vegas. You can't just pop in with little or no notice and get sealed to your significant other. I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but as I understand it is a process that takes time and requires a lot of scrutiny/verification/approval from ecclesiastical leaders. Something Chad and Lori would most certainly have wanted to avoid.

I am not LDS and agree/ I didn't think a temple sealing ceremony was done on the fly. I wondered if they could have arranged it before they were in the public eye. Could someone who is LDS tell us if it is possible that someone could be sealed in a temple somewhere that might be used to destination weddings or with the proper approval given from your home bishop? Since they attended church on the island and were in HI for some time before becoming public figures, maybe they could have taken part in the ceremony then? If they appeared to be sweet widowed people that got a 2nd chance at love and just wanted to have their union sealed before God and HI temple is uses to destination type marriages, would that be a possibility? Or maybe they are not sealed in the proper channels?

 

[tresir2012]

I would have hoped she would have called LE herself right after she hung up with Chad and not wait for them to contact her. But I suppose we all think we would have done differently and when faced with it, maybe she did about average for a person.

Thanks everyone for helping to clarify. Ive not been able to follow this case as much as some of our case experts here. Its been both scary and sad, but a little bit fascinating in a bizarre sort of way.

She knew they were looking for JJ and Tylee and knew JJ was supposed to be with Kay so she clearly knew something was wrong as soon as she knew it was Kay requesting the welfare check. It should not have taken a week for her to disclose the lie to the police IMO.

 

[OGDiva]

My concern is that MG does not have a lawyer. The reason this concerns me, is that I wonder if any of what she is sharing on these news reports will actually be admissible in court, or if this will be thrown out. I can see the defense claiming that this has been tainted, or sensationalized.

Does any of our lawyers know if that is a possibility?

From what I know, if I was involved in this mess I'd get a lawyer pronto, if I was in MG's position. How many times have innocent people been railroaded by the system, because they weren't familiar with the law?

MOO

I would think that Nate might have suggested that she get an attorney for legal protection- just in case. Telling the truth does not always serve to protect one legally.

 

[Tortoise]

Screen 1 - "Melanie says she spoke with police that day and the focus of their investigation turned back to Lori in Rexburg."

Screen 2 - "Lori told Melanie that JJ was in danger, Kay and others were trying to kidnap him and, for Melanie's safety, Lori could not say where he was."

I would really like to know when this story about 'kidnap/Kay's a threat' was birthed. I'm lumping them both together even though there are slight differences.

This is the first time we hear it from a witness who didn't buy into it because Lori had already told her JJ had gone to stay with Kay, and the message from Kay to Lori didn't suggest it was true.

However we heard it already from Lori's family - SS, JC and MP.

Given that Lori had already given the 'going to stay with grandma' story to MG, the neighbors and the nanny, I suspect it was the lie Lori had settled on, for consistency, thinking that those people would never hear from Kay.

One of the most interesting things that happened after the apartment raids is that one of Lori's friends (possibly MG, not confirmed yet) phoned MP and said Lori had been lying to them:-

12News interview:
MP: I got a disturbing phone call from one of her friends. She said this is what I think happened to Tylee and JJ and all these scary things. I don’t know what to think because I can’t talk to Chad and Lori for this time and I don’t know where Tylee and JJ are and I’m scared and I’m kind of venting all of this to my new husband.

EIN interview:
MP: Where it comes down to Tylee and JJ and this zombie idea – it came from a disturbing phone call I got from one of Lori’s old friends right after they took off to Hawaii. She told me, “Lori and Alex did something to Tylee and JJ, and we don’t know where they’re at, and Lori has lied to you,” and all these things that didn’t feel right. On that phone call, I felt a lot of fear and doubt, and that’s when I kind of went into this worrying phase.

Assuming the friend who phoned MP is MG, now that we've heard from MG that she believed JJ was with Kay, we can see where MP slipped up in her interview with EIN. "Lori has lied to you". This confirms the friend (MG?) thought MP had the same story as she had, and MP does not say 'I told the friend JJ was safely hidden, I always knew JJ wasn't with Kay and that what Lori told the friend was a lie so I wasn't worried.' She still does not correct the story to this day to say that she wasn't given the same lie as the friend.

Why did Lori think that MP might never hear from Kay?

It raises a big red flag in my mind that there was another murder plot in the pipeline, in having Kay marked as a zombie. I also wonder what about Larry?

One more thing - when did SS, JC and MP come to hear the lie about hiding JJ from Kay, if it was invented for MG on 26th Nov and MP hadn't heard it still when the friend called her?

They haven't spoken to Lori about the children since she fled the Rexburg apartment I believe.

By my reckoning that means it has to have come from Chad, or one of his friends, since they went to Hawaii, not from Lori, and SS and JC were also making it up, for MP to have a different story.

MOO

 

[FindingJoLee]

Yea, the bizarre thing is how she seemed to almost condone their relationship?

What surprises me, is that even though divorce is more common in the LDS community, it is not looked on favorably. However, here is Lori talking about full blown adultery, and MG doesn't even seem to be that concerned?

Being LDS my whole life, this would be sending red flags up all over the place. At the very least, MG should have advised her friend to meet with the Bishop (Clergy), if not went and discussed it with him herself. Affairs are grounds for excommunication. For MG to treat this so flippantly is mind-blowing in itself.

She said she briefly met Charles, and he seemed like a nice guy. Yet during the end of this interview, poor Charles is completely ignored, I guess she doesn't even consider that he was murdered. Where's the sympathy for him? JMO

Personally I think LVD and CD deserve to both get exactly what they deserve. If they killed those kids, I vote for the death penalty. Actions have consequences.

I can empathize that they are human, just like the rest of us, but we are all responsible for our choices. It just made me sad that MG seemed to care more about LVD and CD than she did about CV.

MOO

Yeah, this was actually really shocking.

I don't know that I'm the personality who would take this on myself to speak to the Bishop about other people's behavior. But I AM the personality who would go all TeamTammy on this and tell a friend that she's out of line both in terms of her conduct as someone who has made certain commitments within the Church and as a woman who is in an illicit relationship with someone else's husband. I don't think you need to be a member of any Church to realize how out of line Lori's behavior was and that, as a friend, you have some sort of duty to condemn that behavior and to encourage correcting it immediately.

 

[tresir2012]

I am not LDS and agree/ I didn't think a temple sealing ceremony was done on the fly. I wondered if they could have arranged it before they were in the public eye. Could someone who is LDS tell us if it is possible that someone could be sealed in a temple somewhere that might be used to destination weddings or with the proper approval given from your home bishop? Since they attended church on the island and were in HI for some time before becoming public figures, maybe they could have taken part in the ceremony then? If they appeared to be sweet widowed people that got a 2nd chance at love and just wanted to have their union sealed before God and HI temple is uses to destination type marriages, would that be a possibility? Or maybe they are not sealed in the proper channels?

Didn't the supposed sealing take place when Tammy was still alive? Or have I misunderstood?

 

[FindingJoLee]

Lori had Tylee's bank card in Hawaii. So she was using them all along. Jmo

This is both disgusting and heartbreaking. I've said it all along -- Lori just doesn't place the same value on life that most people do. It's pathological.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

IMO they are drinking the koolaid, just like Melanie was.

Well of course! Daddy’s been literally bottle feeding them their entire lives!!