Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #34

[FindingJoLee]

Being sealed in a temple is significantly different than a civil wedding in say Vegas. You can't just pop in with little or no notice and get sealed to your significant other. I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but as I understand it is a process that takes time and requires a lot of scrutiny/verification/approval from ecclesiastical leaders. Something Chad and Lori would most certainly have wanted to avoid.

I am not LDS and agree/ I didn't think a temple sealing ceremony was done on the fly. I wondered if they could have arranged it before they were in the public eye. Could someone who is LDS tell us if it is possible that someone could be sealed in a temple somewhere that might be used to destination weddings or with the proper approval given from your home bishop? Since they attended church on the island and were in HI for some time before becoming public figures, maybe they could have taken part in the ceremony then? If they appeared to be sweet widowed people that got a 2nd chance at love and just wanted to have their union sealed before God and HI temple is uses to destination type marriages, would that be a possibility? Or maybe they are not sealed in the proper channels?

It requires a separate recommend (with interview) to be sealed to your spouse. You can't use your normal, every-other-year interview for this.

And if the new Bishop (ie: in Kauai) doesn't know Chad and Lori, it would be normal that he would make a call to the previous Bishop (ie: the one in Rexburg who had no idea that his former Executive Secretary, Chad, is suddenly in Hawaii requesting a sealing recommend to a new wife just a few weeks after Chad's wife of 35 years, died under odd circumstances AND/OR the one in Arizona who has no idea Lori is requesting a sealing recommend a few months after Charles died.)

As it turns out, we learned (from April, I believe) that Chad and Lori did meet with their new Bishop in Kauai, at least in some context (crossing paths in the hallway, a scheduled meeting in his office, something else?) to explain that the nationwide search that was underway for Lori's children was all the result of a simple misunderstanding.

Also...Lori, if she was sealed to Charles, can't be sealed to Chad.

So, I'm gonna mark this notion that they were sealed in the temple in Hawaii as "Almost certainly did not happen. Highly unlikely."

Edited to Add: Our membership records don't simply contain demographic date like birthdates and addresses. They also contain ordinance data and some other free-field notes, if needed. So there is a lot of information that gets communicated from one Bishop to another on the membership record even without phone calls. Just to make this clear, though -- most of the information I'm referring to here is NOT accessible by the average member. Most of what's available to most members *is* contact info. So, if Lori was sealed to Charles, her new Bishop would have known that.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

DBM. Dup.

 

[longtimereader]

Didn't the supposed sealing take place when Tammy was still alive? Or have I misunderstood?

When I listened to her interview, I assumed she meant while she was alive. Then I started thinking that maybe she was talking.out of order timewise and just meant they had been sealed. I can go back and check if she specified. Also Lori may have lied or believed they were from one of their first marriages and was counting that.

 

[tresir2012]

I would really like to know when this story about 'kidnap/Kay's a threat' was birthed. I'm lumping them both together even though there are slight differences.

This is the first time we hear it from a witness who didn't buy into it because Lori had already told her JJ had gone to stay with Kay, and the message from Kay to Lori didn't suggest it was true.

However we heard it already from Lori's family - SS, JC and MP.

Given that Lori had already given the 'going to stay with grandma' story to MG, the neighbors and the nanny, I suspect it was the lie Lori had settled on, for consistency, thinking that those people would never hear from Kay.

One of the most interesting things that happened after the apartment raids is that one of Lori's friends (possibly MG, not confirmed yet) phoned MP and said Lori had been lying to them:-

12News interview:
MP: I got a disturbing phone call from one of her friends. She said this is what I think happened to Tylee and JJ and all these scary things. I don’t know what to think because I can’t talk to Chad and Lori for this time and I don’t know where Tylee and JJ are and I’m scared and I’m kind of venting all of this to my new husband.

EIN interview:
MP: Where it comes down to Tylee and JJ and this zombie idea – it came from a disturbing phone call I got from one of Lori’s old friends right after they took off to Hawaii. She told me, “Lori and Alex did something to Tylee and JJ, and we don’t know where they’re at, and Lori has lied to you,” and all these things that didn’t feel right. On that phone call, I felt a lot of fear and doubt, and that’s when I kind of went into this worrying phase.

Assuming the friend who phoned MP is MG, now that we've heard from MG that she believed JJ was with Kay, we can see where MP slipped up in her interview with EIN. "Lori has lied to you". This confirms the friend (MG?) thought MP had the same story as she had, and MP does not say 'I told the friend JJ was safely hidden, I always knew JJ wasn't with Kay and that what Lori told the friend was a lie so I wasn't worried.' She still does not correct the story to this day to say that she wasn't given the same lie as the friend.

Why did Lori think that MP might never hear from Kay?

It raises a big red flag in my mind that there was another murder plot in the pipeline, in having Kay marked as a zombie. I also wonder what about Larry?

One more thing - when did SS, JC and MP come to hear the lie about hiding JJ from Kay, if it was invented for MG on 26th Nov and MP hadn't heard it still when the friend called her?

They haven't spoken to Lori about the children since she fled the Rexburg apartment I believe.

By my reckoning that means it has to have come from Chad, or one of his friends, since they went to Hawaii, not from Lori, and SS and JC were also making it up, for MP to have a different story.

MOO

This is something else I don't understand. Why didn't any friends or family call up Lori and Chad in California or Hawaii from Thanksgiving till February asking where the F are the kids? What is going on? Are they afraid of them or what? I just cannot follow this behaviour. MOO.

 

[Diddian]

Well of course! Daddy’s been literally bottle feeding them their entire lives!!

Don't forget Mommie Dearest. Seems she's been in on the act as well.

 

[FindingJoLee]

This is something else I don't understand. Why didn't any friends or family call up Lori and Chad in California or Hawaii from Thanksgiving till February asking where the F are the kids? What is going on? Are they afraid of them or what? I just cannot follow this behaviour. MOO.

Was Lori "visible" on that trip to California?? Did his kids see her, know that she was in California? I know they were already married, I just haven't heard if this was a trip they took with his children, or it was a trip he took with his children (and Lori was flying under the radar until they left for Hawaii.)

 

[longtimereader]

It requires a separate recommend (with interview) to be sealed to your spouse. You can't use your normal, every-other-year interview for this.

And if the new Bishop (ie: in Kauai) doesn't know Chad and Lori, it would be normal that he would make a call to the previous Bishop (ie: the one in Rexburg who had no idea that his former Executive Secretary, Chad, is suddenly in Hawaii requesting a sealing recommend to a new wife just a few weeks after Chad's wife of 35 years, died under odd circumstances AND/OR the one in Arizona who has no idea Lori is requesting a sealing recommend a few months after Charles died.)

As it turns out, we learned (from April, I believe) that Chad and Lori did meet with their new Bishop in Kauai, at least in some context (crossing paths in the hallway, a scheduled meeting in his office, something else?) to explain that the nationwide search that was underway for Lori's children was all the result of a simple misunderstanding.

Also...Lori, if she was sealed to Charles, can't be sealed to Chad.

So, I'm gonna mark this notion that they were sealed in the temple in Hawaii as "Almost certainly did not happen. Highly unlikely."

Edited to Add: Our membership records don't simply contain demographic date like birthdates and addresses. They also contain ordinance data and some other free-field notes, if needed. So there is a lot of information that gets communicated from one Bishop to another on the membership record even without phone calls. Just to make this clear, though -- most of the information I'm referring to here is NOT accessible by the average member. Most of what's available to most members *is* contact info. So, if Lori was sealed to Charles, her new Bishop would have known that.

Thank you! So maybe she has a false memory of being sealed to him during the previous probation marriages? Like soulmates that keep finding each other after the first sealing. Sounds like a romantic notion that she might buy from him.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I was thinking his SSI would have started even before Charles' death (and then continued afterward.) A waiver program of some sort that qualified him for SSI based on his own income ($0) and his level of disability?

But I'm still not seeing how two children would have generated $6,000 in SS benefits (read; "income" to Lori), even viewing Charles and Joe's earnings generously. Which is why I'm also wondering if there were other types of benefits (that she was spending) to which the children were entitled.

No, SSI would definitely be calculated based on the parents' income, as long as he is a dependent. They would be WAY above the means tested threshold.
I can see close to $5000+ if there was indeed a stipend provided for JJ's adoption (no proof of this whatsoever, but just as a possibility) -- ~$2000 each child for survivor's benefits (which is completely in the ballpark of the people I know that receive it) and perhaps ~$1000 for the stipend. Moo.

 

[FindingJoLee]

BBM.

I don't fault him for that. I mean who would you go to for help? He went to family and friends, those closest to himself and Lori to try and figure out what was going on and also try and help her. Some of them did recognize that there was a problem (at least BB and AdC from what I can gather). It's a shame that more didn't believe him, or even saw his actions as being hostile when they weren't.

It also seems like Charles turned to his religious leaders, medical professionals, and even LE and the legal system when all was said and done. But Lori was good at convincing people that she wasn't the problem. Heck, it appears like she was even able to convince Charles himself not to go through with the divorce paperwork and give her another go. In my opinion he did everything under the sun to work things out and get the help they needed. Tragically it just didn't happen in time.

I hate to say it, but I think this is a fairly typical description of what can happen when you're trying to get someone into mental health care. Based on a long-term relationship, you can plainly see when someone is unstable or delusional, but you just can't get others to see the red flags you see.

I'm pretty sure other people here have had this very experience. Up to and including the screening at a facility that ends when the admissions counselor determines the person isn't a danger to herself and others.

 

[scapa]

What? Disgusting to discuss human beings as being zombies.

Not at all my intention -- that was LVD/CD and those others in their group who shared these particular beliefs and "doctrine".

I was referring to historical and recent cultural usages of the term and why using it may be designed to insulate the user from the consequent social outrage and legal remedy -- as I thought was clear from my post in context. Apologies to all if not so.

 

[longtimereader]

Deleted by me.

 

[tresir2012]

Was Lori "visible" on that trip to California?? Did his kids see her, know that she was in California? I know they were already married, I just haven't heard if this was a trip they took with his children, or it was a trip he took with his children (and Lori was flying hiding out under the radar until they left for Hawaii.)

The welfare check was at the end of November. Friends and family knew their mobile phone numbers, presumably, but no one rang them to ask where the kids were for two months? Why not?

 

[FindingJoLee]

Thank you! So maybe she has a false memory of being sealed to him during the previous probation marriages? Like soulmates that keep finding each other after the first sealing. Sounds like a romantic notion that she might buy from him.

Maybe? But also....

There's some question about whether the two of them visited a Temple back in the day when both were still married to other people.... and sat adjacent to one other in a room within the Temple that was open to them (and to everyone else who was there at that time)....and then quietly whispered some sort of DIY sealing between themselves*. That's a different question from the one asked earlier about being sealed in Hawaii after their Breezy Beach Ukulele Wedding.

(*Obviously DIY sealing are not a thing at all -- just like a DIY marriage ceremonies don't result in a legal marriage. I'm doing a terrible job of explaining this, because I only know what actually happens...not what people do when they go off message and find a little quiet spot somewhere in the Temple to do whatever they want.)

 

[Deerrun]

I agree. It reveals Lori's premeditation to get rid of JJ. She was just looking for an "acceptable" thing to tell her friend MG in the future as to why JJ was no longer with her. MOO.

I agree, I think Lori was feeling Melanie out.
I did get the creeps that Alex was watching JJ and I also felt a chill of fear for MG being alone with Alex. Chilling also that MG says Alex believes this stuff, makes what MelaniBP said about Alex even more believable in this mess. (MBP said Alex had faith and no task was to difficult) I believe if this did not come out when it did more lives (prob more young lives) would be lost.
Hopefully some of the Chad believers are doing some soul searching.
I was troubled by what MG said too at the end about loving Chad and Lori etc but now I think she was trying to appeal to them from a friend who loves them to come clean and save themselves. All jmo
They are staying away from any Melani questions curious if Nate will bring her up or if she is off limits.

 

[longtimereader]

Maybe? But also....

There's some question about whether the two of them visited a Temple back in the day when both were still married to other people.... and sat adjacent to one other in a room within the Temple that was open to them (and to everyone else who was there at that time)....and then quietly whispered some sort of DIY sealing between themselves*. That's a different question from the one asked earlier about being sealed in Hawaii after their Breezy Beach Ukulele Wedding.

(*Obviously DIY sealing are not a thing at all -- just like a DIY marriage ceremonies don't result in a legal marriage. I'm doing a terrible job of explaining this, because I only know what actually happens...not what people do when they go off message and find a little quiet spot somewhere in the Temple to do whatever they want.)

I understand what you mean. Or attend someone elses's sealing and saying the words in their heads.

 

[FindingJoLee]

The welfare check was at the end of November. Friends and family knew their mobile phone numbers, presumably, but no one rang them to ask where the kids were for two months? Why not?

What you're getting at here is that a lot of people had a lot of pieces to this puzzle for a long time. Some of them did nothing.

So, thank you Kay, thank you for making reasonable attempts to contact JJ for a reasonable period of time and then.... sounding an all-out alarm in a credible way. Whatever the outcome, I will never fail to consider you these children's HERO. And, Kay you have also absolutely honored Charles with your actions, too.

EDIT: Also was responding to this similar question:

This is something else I don't understand. Why didn't any friends or family call up Lori and Chad in California or Hawaii from Thanksgiving till February asking where the F are the kids? What is going on? Are they afraid of them or what? I just cannot follow this behaviour. MOO.

 

[April_Dawn99]

One thing I'm disappointed in so far with these interviews is the lack of dates given. With so many things happening it would have been nice for Nate to press Melanie on when these things happened. When were the conferences, when were the temple trips, when did Melanie go up to Idaho and visit Lori? We get a vague sense of when certain things happened, but not much in the way of specific dates. Knowing exactly when things took place would help provide clarity. Jmo.

I think the dates have been omitted for purpose.
However, MG says she came to visit LV in Rexburg in September on Thursday and stayed until Monday, that's when she was told that JJ became zombie just 1 day before and that he will be sent to Kay.
From nanny's evidence we know that a friend was coming on September 19th, which is Thursday.
If that friend is MG, that would mean she left on Monday, September 23rd, and that would make her the last witness to see JJ, isn't that so?

ETA: In transcript to video it says:"Gibb visited Sept. 19 and remembers walking around the Brigham Young University-Idaho campus and indoor track with Lori and Chad, who were holding hands and kissing." So I suppose she indeed was the last known witness to see JJ.

 

[Campizi67]

JMO but I don't see a scenario where anything she is saying in public (to the media especially) hasn't already been said to investigators along with more substantial information. And of course, all of that would naturally be shared by the prosecution with defense as a matter of discovery.

I was thinking along these same lines. We all know she gave her statement to LE months ago and obviously nothing she said was substantial enough to cause them to charge LVD or CD with murder.

To me, her interviews are more filling in of some blanks rather than answers to the whereabouts of the kids. Otherwise if she had anything of true importance to say, I would think the initial statement to LE would have brought about more arrests and/or charges. JMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

My concern is that MG does not have a lawyer. The reason this concerns me, is that I wonder if any of what she is sharing on these news reports will actually be admissible in court, or if this will be thrown out. I can see the defense claiming that this has been tainted, or sensationalized.

Does any of our lawyers know if that is a possibility?

From what I know, if I was involved in this mess I'd get a lawyer pronto, if I was in MG's position. How many times have innocent people been railroaded by the system, because they weren't familiar with the law?

MOO

And how often is "the truth" and "god" is on my side used as a reason......

 

[SteelCity91]

So why did Melani and Alex go to Rexburg? Did Chad tell them to go as well?

Lori moved to Rexburg August/September 2019. Melani didn't move until November and I'm pretty sure Alex move down the same time Melani did. So I believe two months into Lori's move to Rexburg, she was comfortable with her life and told Melani and Alex to move down. Melani did admit in the interview with Nate that Lori said “Just come. Try out somewhere new and come see if you like it up here." and "I was getting my home ready and was going to figure out what’s going on with my kids and get them back here. We were going to have a fresh start. And Lori is very independent, doing her own thing. She was next door, but I spent most of my time with Alex." So I believe Lori told them move to Rexburg. MOO

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