Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #34

[CSIDreamer]

Do you have evidence that MG's visit was Sep 19-23? Not disputing, just trying to resolve differences. My timeline shows the most likely time for MG's visit (which she said was from a Thursday to Monday) would have been Sep 12-16? I say this because I have Lori hiring a babysitter on Sep 19, and MG said that Alex was watching JJ when she was there.

Didn't the nanny/sitter say Lori went to the airport that day to pick someone up? Jmo

 

[DI_Isokawa]

The day Lori hired a babysitter is the day MG arrived, Lori picked her up from the airport. She introduced MG to the babysitter.

Thanks.

 

[Onsdag]

This is something else I don't understand. Why didn't any friends or family call up Lori and Chad in California or Hawaii from Thanksgiving till February asking where the F are the kids? What is going on? Are they afraid of them or what? I just cannot follow this behaviour. MOO.

Maybe they did and we're just not privy to it. MOO.

 

[Nurse Gen]

To me, it sounds a lot like what MBP has been subjected to, from Lori and likely others in her mother's family of origin.

Psychotherapist Alice Miller wrote (in The Drama of the Gifted Child) about the suffering of children whose narcissistic parent tried to make them feel "special" in some way as a way of preparing that child to become caretaker of the parent's needs. Such people lock the child into the role by making them feel gifted (especially perceptive, or sensitive, or nurturing) in some way while at the same time exploiting that child and that "gift" to serve their own unfulfilled needs.

Giving up that "giftedness," that felt responsibility to care for the parent rather than to be cared for, is part of growing up and separating, but it is very painful and difficult. It requires understanding the full cost to oneself and being around others who love the individual enough to want them to be free and able to pursue fulfillment of their own needs.

Heading to Kindle @Diddian , had not heard of this book! Now I'm revisiting Colby's statement that Lori was acting like a jealous girlfriend when Colby first began to date his future wife. IMO that's an example of the narcissist parent resisting and undermining the child's attempt to grow up and separate

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

The day Lori hired a babysitter is the day MG arrived, Lori picked her up from the airport. She introduced MG to the babysitter.

And Alex went with Lori to the airport, so he wasn't available to watch JJ.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Coming up at 5:30, the subpoena filed by Melani Pawlowski’s lawyers may have failed. Newly obtained court documents show what Gilbert’s Town Attorney says about her family and multiple criminal investigations.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Three observations prompted by Part 2:

1. MG's words and demeanor made me ineffably sad, for they made it clear to me that she knows or believes the children are dead.

2. The gap in her narrative between late September and late November really stood out for me. A lot happened in that interval, and MG says she just had a couple of phone calls while it was going on. Was Lori avoiding her? Or is MG being deliberately economical with the truth?

3. (General observation) We tend to depreciate the various POI's accounts of threats from Kay or Charles's friends. It is possible that the threats were real (death threats over the internet are not exactly rare) but the POIs were unwilling to come clean about their source. Charles and Lori, and by implication MG, engaged in behavior that seriously disrupted a lucrative prepper industry of books, conferences, for-profit forums and survival supplies. It would not be a surprise if somebody whose cash flow was interrupted as a result the group's shenanigans took it upon themselves to issue threats against the individuals and their children as a way of venting their anger.

 

[Onsdag]

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Coming up at 5:30, the subpoena filed by Melani Pawlowski’s lawyers may have failed. Newly obtained court documents show what Gilbert’s Town Attorney says about her family and multiple criminal investigations.

Does anybody else get the feeling something big is about to develop? We have this timed release of MG's interview spread over three days, a 'leaked' email from AZ LE that the Charles case is making progress, Justin Lum hinting and teasing everyone to "wait for it," and now this other tease about the BB/MP case? I don't know, it just seems like something big and coordinated is about to happen. Maybe it's JM hopeful O.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Lori moved to Rexburg August/September 2019. Melani didn't move until November and I'm pretty sure Alex move down the same time Melani did. So I believe two months into Lori's move to Rexburg, she was comfortable with her life and told Melani and Alex to move down. Melani did admit in the interview with Nate that Lori said “Just come. Try out somewhere new and come see if you like it up here." and "I was getting my home ready and was going to figure out what’s going on with my kids and get them back here. We were going to have a fresh start. And Lori is very independent, doing her own thing. She was next door, but I spent most of my time with Alex." So I believe Lori told them move to Rexburg. MOO

If you need the link to interview Melani and Ian Pawlowski discuss religious beliefs, disturbing court documents, why Lori Daybell isn't talking and what they know about missing kids | East Idaho News

Alex was already living there as of September 19th, and had moved the same time as Lori. Why, when supposedly he was in a relationship with someone in AZ? Well obviously to do the bidding of the monsters. He had been named an angel sent to help them accomplish their missions.
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

 

[Nurse Gen]

This is something that doesn't quite ring true to me. MG knew about all this when she went with Lori to the police back in February 2019 She knew Chad and Lori were having an affair and that Charles was making these accusations then. If she had spoken up, Charles would still be alive and possibly so would JJ, Tylee and Tammy. Instead, she carried on doing podcasts with them and endorsing their crazy beliefs. I hope she tells us what the May 2019 family emergency was that stopped Chad appearing at a conference at that time. I am not happy at all about her role in this. What did she think about the 2nd Oct shooting attempt on BB after Charles' killing in July? Maybe these events are still to be discussed. MOO.

ITA @tresir2012
Today's interview did shed light on a lot of very ugly darkness. So there's that. But MG is no hero IMHO

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Did anyone alert all ears up today during the walking at the track story?

I'm totally paraphrasing and taking creative license but this was my take away:

So, people knew Chad was married to Tammy but they were so rarely together many of them didn't know what she looked like. They assumed Lori was Tammy and no one corrected them.

Am I the only one that got that impression? Jmo

I did hear that.

From Melanie’s description it sounds like they were walking in the indoor track on campus at BYU Idaho, especially how they mentioned looking at the pictures inside. Since it would have been during the fall semester, people would have had classes so the track isn’t packed during those times (usually busiest after 5pm and on Saturday).

Honestly, before all this blew up I had no clue who Chad Daybell was. I get the impression he thought everyone knew about him and his books. I’m an avid reader and have been a member of the LDS faith about 20 years and never heard of his books, neither has anyone else in my family.

All jmo

 

[SteelCity91]

Alex was already living there as of September 19th, and had moved the same time as Lori. Why, when supposedly he was in a relationship with someone in AZ? Well obviously to do the bidding of the monsters. He had been named an angel sent to help them accomplish their missions.
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

Thank you for that. I didn't realize Alex moved down there that early. I thought he was just staying/visiting Lori.

 

[Nurse Gen]

Yes, there are things that MG might have done that could have prevented whatever happened to JJ from happening. It seems she knows that and is to whatever degree beating herself up for it. As I’m sure a number of other friends and family members are. It’s not helpful for us to criticize them. And, as someone posted earlier, this kind of bashing does nothing to encourage others w/information to come forward. Nothing!

It’s human nature to want to place blame, but lets direct it it where it belongs. On Lori and Chad. And IMO Chandler PD who had they investigated Charles’ death properly would likely have prevented whatever happened to JJ AND Tylee from happening. And Tammy might even still be alive.

I suspect it would be a struggle for many of us to process suspected evil behavior from someone we “know well”, trust, respect and/or love. Compared to LE who had no such attachment to Lori and Alex and are trained and paid to be suspicious, recognize illegal acts and arrest criminals.

ETA MOO

Sure ITA Chandler LE deserves plenty of condemnation IMO. Also MO, agreeing to disagree regarding culpability on the part of MG. LE is in a position to decide whether the information provided by accessories to crime is worth giving the accessory a pass (ie immunity or a plea deal) but that doesn't mean the accessory is suddenly some kind of hero. JMO

 

[Queasy Gumshoe]

Would someone kindly post the timeline again, I can't find it and I and trying to put some pieces together. Thank you in advance

 

[CSIDreamer]

Would someone kindly post the timeline again, I can't find it and I and trying to put some pieces together. Thank you in advance

Click on page 1 of this thread. It's in the first or 2nd post.

 

[Redvines86]

Not having gone through the process myself yet I can't speak with any kind of certainty. However, as I understand it, part of the process of getting a temple sealing involves visiting with the Bishop and/or Stake President (likely both) of both the bride and groom, to ascertain worthiness, make sure everything is in proper order (e.g. they're not currently married to someone else), etc. I can't speak as to Lori's situation, where her records were and all that, but at least for Chad his records were still in Rexburg. His Bishop and Stake President would have known Tammy, would have known she had just died, and, I think I can say with some certainty, would have never signed off on him getting remarried so soon after Tammy's death. It would have sent up huge red flags and they would have probably started talking with him about getting an excommunication rather than a sealing. JM uneducated O.

You are correct MOO

 

[Tricia]

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[FindingJoLee]

Did anyone alert all ears up today during the walking at the track story?

I'm totally paraphrasing and taking creative license but this was my take away:

So, people knew Chad was married to Tammy but they were so rarely together many of them didn't know what she looked like. They assumed Lori was Tammy and no one corrected them.

Am I the only one that got that impression? Jmo

What I got was...."Those are two people who want to get caught." If this is a small community where everybody knows everybody who is showing up over at the Temple, this is also a small community where everybody knows everybody taking a hand-holding walk over at BYU. If this happened the way it was described, it doesn't sound like either of them cares much who could see it.

Also, it kind of just leaves me with a "sometimes stuff gets hidden in plain sight" vibe. So for the billionth time...where are the children???

 

[Nurse Gen]

I would really like to know when this story about 'kidnap/Kay's a threat' was birthed. I'm lumping them both together even though there are slight differences.

This is the first time we hear it from a witness who didn't buy into it because Lori had already told her JJ had gone to stay with Kay, and the message from Kay to Lori didn't suggest it was true.

However we heard it already from Lori's family - SS, JC and MP.

Given that Lori had already given the 'going to stay with grandma' story to MG, the neighbors and the nanny, I suspect it was the lie Lori had settled on, for consistency, thinking that those people would never hear from Kay.

One of the most interesting things that happened after the apartment raids is that one of Lori's friends (possibly MG, not confirmed yet) phoned MP and said Lori had been lying to them:-

12News interview:
MP: I got a disturbing phone call from one of her friends. She said this is what I think happened to Tylee and JJ and all these scary things. I don’t know what to think because I can’t talk to Chad and Lori for this time and I don’t know where Tylee and JJ are and I’m scared and I’m kind of venting all of this to my new husband.

EIN interview:
MP: Where it comes down to Tylee and JJ and this zombie idea – it came from a disturbing phone call I got from one of Lori’s old friends right after they took off to Hawaii. She told me, “Lori and Alex did something to Tylee and JJ, and we don’t know where they’re at, and Lori has lied to you,” and all these things that didn’t feel right. On that phone call, I felt a lot of fear and doubt, and that’s when I kind of went into this worrying phase.

Assuming the friend who phoned MP is MG, now that we've heard from MG that she believed JJ was with Kay, we can see where MP slipped up in her interview with EIN. "Lori has lied to you". This confirms the friend (MG?) thought MP had the same story as she had, and MP does not say 'I told the friend JJ was safely hidden, I always knew JJ wasn't with Kay and that what Lori told the friend was a lie so I wasn't worried.' She still does not correct the story to this day to say that she wasn't given the same lie as the friend.

Why did Lori think that MP might never hear from Kay?

It raises a big red flag in my mind that there was another murder plot in the pipeline, in having Kay marked as a zombie. I also wonder what about Larry?

One more thing - when did SS, JC and MP come to hear the lie about hiding JJ from Kay, if it was invented for MG on 26th Nov and MP hadn't heard it still when the friend called her?

They haven't spoken to Lori about the children since she fled the Rexburg apartment I believe.

By my reckoning that means it has to have come from Chad, or one of his friends, since they went to Hawaii, not from Lori, and SS and JC were also making it up, for MP to have a different story.

MOO

@Tortoise SPOT ON! I want a portal to the world where you were on duty at Chandler PD when Charles was trying to get help

 

[tresir2012]

I just mean the only evidence we have is MG saying it, that doesn't mean it's true, and depends on how much one believes her. Just because someone says something doesn't mean it's real. MOO

It is MG saying it and is direct evidence of her witnessing them going to the temple or being told by them that they went to the temple. Yes we would have to believe she is being truthful and may even have accompanied them sometimes. On the day MG went to Rexburg (was it the 19th Sept?) Do we know what they did that day?