Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #11

[indicolite22]

It's just crazy to me that LE can't make a case for murder here. Especially with all the new information that has come out. Even Lori's version of her relationship with Charles in her statement doesn't check out. Charles didn't take JJ, she abandoned him. He moved to Houston because she took the company payroll funds and disappeared. Then there's her affair.

IMO the police would have to exclude the possibility of self-defence. Lori being a lousy wife and mother wasn't enough. If they could prove premeditation, it would help.

 

[tresir2012]

Wow, that's way more than I thought the state had done. I expected some intermediate steps but they went straight to the heart of the matter.

I wondered what a guardian ad litem was so here's what I found.

» Idaho Code 16-1614 – Appointment of Guardian Ad Litem, Counsel for Guardian Ad Litem, Counsel for ChildLawServer

• Guardian: A person legally empowered and charged with the duty of taking care of and managing the property of another person who because of age, intellect, or health, is incapable of managing his (her) own affairs.
• Guardian ad litem: means a person appointed by the court pursuant to a guardian ad litem volunteer program to act as special advocate for a child under this chapter. See Idaho Code 30-21-414
• Guardian ad litem program: means the program to recruit, train and coordinate volunteer persons to serve as guardians ad litem for abused, neglected or abandoned children. See Idaho Code 30-21-41

 

[nopynono]

Why do I feel like Lori has a driver’s license to match every husband “just in case?”

AZ is really weird with drivers licences. My licence that I got at 16 is still valid until my 60's. It could be that its the same licence she had from when she was married to JR that she kept when she also filed for a new one with her new name after marrying CV.

 

[carbuff]

AZ is really weird with drivers licences. My licence that I got at 16 is still valid until my 60's. It could be that its the same licence she had from when she was married to JR that she kept when she also filed for a new one with her new name after marrying CV.

My sister-in-law kept the one she had before her divorce so she had ID that had the same name as the kids when she picked them up. It just made things simpler. She eventually had to give it up, but the state she lived in was stricter than it sounds like AZ is.

 

[tresir2012]

IMO the police would have to exclude the possibility of self-defence. Lori being a lousy wife and mother wasn't enough. If they could prove premeditation, it would help.

I think the fact that Alex admitted shooting Charles but in self defence and both Tylee and Lori made those statements saying Charles was in a rage will mean nothing happens. Unless Alex's autopsy shows foul play or suicide. MOO.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Well I am wondering how long does it usually take? LE know the kids have not been seen since Sep 23rd so that's 4 months so far. And ATM she is living in luxury spending £6k per month on rent alone. Reading the police interviews by Lori and TR about the shooting of CV, it really reads like T will just support Lori, whatever she says and whatever happens. If as hoped, the kids are OK that is.

Regarding the interview of Lori by Chandler LE, the very first sentence states Lori goes to the restroom. So if she did shoot CV, they straightaway gave her the chance to wash off any gunshot residue from her hands. So no way that is ever going to change from AC, who is now deceased, being responsible for CV death based on those statements made IMO. So it will now depend on the autopsy of Tammy IMO.

Is there a link to the statements or interviews you are discussing here? I'd sure like to read them.

 

[TruthSeeker1212]

Is there a link to the statements or interviews you are discussing here? I'd sure like to read them.

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

 

[Owutatangledweb]

My sister-in-law kept the one she had before her divorce so she had ID that had the same name as the kids when she picked them up. It just made things simpler. She eventually had to give it up, but the state she lived in was stricter than it sounds like AZ is.

Looks the article referenced a Hawaii drivers license.

 

[tresir2012]

Is there a link to the statements or interviews you are discussing here? I'd sure like to read them.

@Gardener1850 posted them in the media thread. They are very interesting.

ETA they are on page 20 of the media thread post numbers 388 and 391. I found them much easier to read from Gardener's screenshots rather than the Twitter pages.

 

[northernlight]

Some thoughts. MOO
I wonder if they are planning on writing a book about their story. That could be a potential money maker.

Is it possible she is waiting to be arrested before revealing the location of the kids. Could she then sue the state of Idaho for false arrest? (I'm hoping it is something like that, because it would mean the kids could still be alive)

 

[Tortoise]

I've just put together an estimated timeline for the morning Alex shot and killed Charles, together with some quotes from their statements to law enforcement, and a few of my observations.

The timings for the 911 call and officer's bodycam come from assuming the bodycam is set to UTC (Coordinated Universal Time) which is 7 hours ahead of AZ.


6:30am/7am: Alex wakes up.

Pre-7:40am Charles tells the hotel to expect him and JJ for breakfast. Lawyers: Husband of Lori Vallow made prediction on who will kill him months before he died

7:30am Lori had JJ’s backpack ready for school. She looked at the clock.

7:40am Charles arrives, per Lori. She tells him to go now, and get breakfast for JJ from Burger King (nearest BK I can see is 9 miles/17 mins away, S Alma School Rd, could be near the school which is 15 mins away).

7:50am Tylee wakes up to commotion in her bedroom doorway (of all places in the house) which happened when Charles came back for his phone, so JJ must already be strapped in the car.

7:55am the bat business and Alex pulling Charles back from behind. Tylee is sent out to the car.

7:55 – 8am Charles is shot.

8:00am (5 min later) estimate of when Lori left the house. This gave Lori time to stop and get breakfast for JJ, (she remembered her purse), eat it and take the 30 min round trip to school, and be back by 8:48am.

8:20am JJ’s school gates open.

8:24am Charles comes to pick up JJ – per Alex’s “about 20 mins ago” statement to officer at 8:44am. *Alternatively if he means 20 mins before he shot him this could be 7:40 am.

8:35am Alex shoots Charles – per his “er, couple of minutes” statement on 911 call. He increases this to 5 minutes when he answers questions outside.

8:37am Alex calls 911 (6 min call). This would be 37 mins after an 8:00am shooting. (Quite dead.)

8:43am Officers arrive/Alex comes out of house.

8:48am Lori approaches officer with Tylee, from rental car.


Alex’s responses to officer’s questions:

Q: “When did this happen?” A: “Maybe 5 minutes before I called.”

Q: “What time did he come to pick up the son?” A: “About 20 minutes ago maybe”

Q: “Are you working now?” A: “Er, I’m on vacation this week.”

Q: “Well what do you do for a living?” A: “Oh, I drive a truck”

Q: “How long ago did they leave? Has it been like an hour, 10 minutes?” A: “20 minutes, I don’t know.”

Q: “So not terribly long?” A: “No, no, no.”

Q: “What time did you about wake up this morning?” A: “6:30 or 7”

Q: “Normal day this morning…wake up?” A: “Yeah, vacation, just hanging out, yeah”

Q: “Normal, you, your sister, your niece?” A: “Yeah, gonna go do something fun today”

Q: “You all live in San Tan Valley so why…is it just easier to just hang out here?” A: “Yeah, just, I was just here late last night, stayed the night” (just = minimizing)

Q: “Are you and your sister pretty close?” A: “Yeah, we were planning to go do something today.” (planning - but not saying what, murder most likely)



Lori’s statement: (parts)

Lori said he told her all of a sudden that he was coming Wednesday night and he wanted to see [redacted]. (note 'all of a sudden' precludes planning - misdirection of LE)

Lori indicated her husband hadn’t been here in a couple weeks (since her moving) and he had been “nasty” when he was here. (contradictory)

Lori stated he contacted her and said he was coming Wednesday night and said he was going to pick [redacted] up and take him to school Thursday and then pick him up Thursday and take him Friday. (misdirection of LE - she agreed to a future plan indicating she expected Charles would be alive)

Lori stated his job gives him freedom so he doesn’t have to stay home every day and take care of a special needs child. Lori indicated she does that. (resentment)

Lori indicated her husband had told her that he was coming last night and Lori told him that he couldn’t stay at the house and she would get him a hotel. (he was already in a hotel for past few weeks per link above)

Lori stated that [redacted] does go to school all day and she talked about how she is just getting his services back. (contradicts having to be home all day)

Lori talked about how [redacted] has been a nightmare because her husband ripped [redacted] out of his routine…

Lori described how [redacted] freaks out when he finds out dad is coming because he associates when dad took him to Houston so Lori didn’t tell [redacted] that he was coming. (she didn't tell JJ Charles would be taking him to school, because he would undoubtedly find the reality of Lori taking him hard to accept, but note he was happy to stay outside in Charles' car)

Lori stated he didn’t bother her last night which she was kind of surprised about because she was expecting “kind of an ambush” that he would just come over and be “just mean”. (contradicts what she said earlier - unless they were going to ambush Charles the night before.)

She didn’t hear from him except that he texted her to say he would be there at 7:30 to pick up [redacted]

Lori said he came over in the morning and he was banging on the door. Lori said here we go so she was just trying to be nice and had [redacted] stuff ready for school. I asked what time he got there and Lori stated he had said he would be there at 7:30 but it was more like 7:40 7:35ish but she wasn’t sure. Lori remembers looking at the clock at 7:30 and indicated he is usually very punctual.

Lori said her brother had stayed there last night because Lori was worried her husband would come over and “cause trouble with” her. Lori said she just wanted someone else there, wanted her brother there. (reveals planning - there was no trouble until she took his phone, he was set up)

Lori said she was getting [redacted] stuff ready and he was saying he was leaving in 20 minutes, mentioning it was 15 minutes to the school. Lori mentioned that you can’t get there early because they don’t open the gates until about 8:20 or something. Lori suggested to him that they go now, because she didn’t want him in the house, so they could go to Burger King and get breakfast.

Lori told her husband to go and he agreed so Lori gave him the backpack and they got in the car. Lori stated her husband always leaves something in the house, that he always comes back and he never leaves the first time and she is always expecting her husband to come back in the house. Lori advised he had left his phone on the counter. (how surprising that she has to lead into an explanation of what she did next!)

Lori said his phone was on the counter and then Lori had his phone. He told Lori to give him his phone and she told him “why don’t you show me your text that you’ve been texting.” (note the seamless transition from Charles leaves the phone to and then Lori has it!! Does not tally with her wanting him gone.)

Lori stated he “goes nuts” and then indicated that he’s gone nuts before and that she and [redacted] have had to leave with [redacted] before, over the years five times… Lori said you don’t know what’s going to set him off. (this doesn't tally with deliberately setting him off)

Lori mentioned that they have [redacted] and he is special needs and it’s really hard. (more narrative building about her being saintly, and resentment about JJ)

Lori said he came back in and she wouldn’t give him back his phone and he was screaming at her to give him back his phone. Lori said she was just holding it there and he was screaming at her. Lori said she was kind of walking around the house so he couldn’t get it and he was kind of reaching for it.

Lori said [redacted] came out of her room upset and she had a bat. (omits to say why she kind of walked towards Tylee's room but then camped there long enough to disturb Tylee until Tylee came out)

Lori said her brother Alex heard the commotion and he came out into the main room. (Tylee says he was already involved right outside her room)

Lori said her husband is screaming and is super upset.

Lori doesn’t know if [redacted] swung at him or what but he grabbed the bat from [redacted] and went to hit [redacted] with the bat […] and her brother grabbed him from behind to stop him from hitting [redacted]. (NB> Neither Alex nor Tylee says this is what happened)

Lori said then they [Alex and Charles] get into the thing and he’s hitting her brother with the bat and they’re on the ground like grappling around or whatever. (Tylee says she was sent outside before this)

Lori said she is freaking out and is trying to go around and knows [redacted] is in the car. (but still keeps the phone, so Charles won't be able to call 911)

Lori told [redacted] to go get in the car with [redacted] because she didn’t want [redacted] coming in and she wanted [redacted] out and didn’t want the kids in the house for whatever “this fight was going to be”. (premeditation)

Lori stated […] Charles was coming at her with the bat, yelling at her to give him his phone. Lori stated she still had the phone in her hand.

[NB> she told Tylee to let go of the bat and let Charles have it - because shouting wasn’t going to be cause to shoot a man. Yet she did not relinquish the phone and that was the only reason she has given for Charles following her, and this flies in the face of telling Charles to go because she didn’t want him in the house. She knows he’s not going to leave without his phone, it's not as if he lives there and will be coming back for it. The argument in Tylee’s bedroom doorway seems set up to get Tylee up and out of the house, witness an argument but not witness the murder and because Lori knows Charles won’t be walking back out to JJ. Lori reveals foreknowledge of what was “going to be”. Alex avoids saying why he spent the night there and if they planned to do something fun today he should be able to say what, as plan indicates.]

Tylee's statement (parts):

[redacted] advised that she woke up around 7:50 because she heard yelling right outside her door.

[redacted] said she immediately jumped up and she got the bat and she opened the door and it was her stepdad outside the doorway and her uncle kind of in the doorway and she could hear her mom behind him.

[redacted] said … her uncle kind of moved out of the way and her mom kind of went past him and into the big room where everything happened and she kind of walked with them.

[redacted] said she kind of stuck the baseball bat out there and [Charles] grabbed it and tried to take it but she held onto the end.

She saw [her stepdad] take a step back so she thinks her uncle grabbed him and took him back

(NB. Tylee is not there when Charles and Alex are grappling on the floor/Alex is being hit with the bat.)

[redacted] advised her mum told her to go with [redacted] and then she ran out the door.

[redacted] said she stood there with her little brother. [redacted] indicated he was in the front seat so she opened the door and stood there.

I returned to when she talked about putting the bat out when her step-dad was coming at her mom and asked her to describe what was going on. I asked if there was a reason that she put the bat up. [redacted] stated yes, that he was walking towards her mom and [redacted] did not want him to do anything so she just stuck out the bat.

[redacted] said she’s holding it by the place where you hold it and he kind of took it. [redacted] indicated her mom said ‘just let go’.

 

[carbuff]

I think the fact that Alex admitted shooting Charles but in self defence and both Tylee and Lori made those statements saying Charles was in a rage will mean nothing happens. Unless Alex's autopsy shows foul play or suicide. MOO.

With Charles and Alex both dead, it's a moot point.

 

[Trask]

DBM because @Tortoise did an excellent job of laying out the conflicting statements and it makes much more sense than my explanation.

 

[SuziQ]

There was a "custody battle" from the beginning, regardless if official paperwork was filed. Kay said Lori didnt even tell her what happened to Charles, and then started dodging her calls. From the moment Charles was killed, Lori started acting as if she wanted to shut Kay out. Kay had been an active grandparent to her son, they had gone on family vacations together, and were frequent contact. Even if Charles was the abuser that Lori painted him to be, why shut out the loving grandparent who helps provide a stable caring environment for your difficult to control special needs son? Because she thought Kay would come for JJ, especially being very aware of Lori's strange behaviors/abandonment/religious ranting/stealing cars and cash and affair. If Kay believed what her brother was telling her, why in the world would she NOT want to get her grandchild away from Lori? I think we can put this argument to rest now. There is a provable custody dispute, and there likely has always been an informal one.

Grandparents typically have no rights. As it stands even after they filed paperwork on Jan 29th, they don't automatically get custody. The state gets them first.Point me to anything regarding a custody dispute involving the grandparents being provable.

 

[dkryder]

AZ is really weird with drivers licences. My licence that I got at 16 is still valid until my 60's. It could be that its the same licence she had from when she was married to JR that she kept when she also filed for a new one with her new name after marrying CV.

That's changed. I recently went for the travel ID DL and it's 25 bucks and lasts 5 years. I'm 68. AZ is soaking us now.

 

[renarde]

"What did Lori do with Charles' phone?" New comments from an hour ago, from Justin Lum, about CV's phone, SIM, SD card, and PIN:

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

 

[MsBetsy]

The biggest problem I have is how Tylee got into a direct confrontation with Charles with the bat, yet Alex and Lori did nothing to intervene in any way. Even allowed it to become a back and forth struggle over the bat. Any parent or even uncle would have told her to put down the bat and / or go back to her room. Leave the fighting to the grownups.

And why would a parent send her daughter into a potentially life threatening situation to go back in the house for her purse?

Unless she had reason to believe it was not a dangerous situation?

Or was it after she knew he was already dead? If so, why send her in to see that?

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

With Charles and Alex both dead, it's a moot point.

There is no investigation for either case?

 

[tresir2012]

With Charles and Alex both dead, it's a moot point.

Unless Alex's death is murder or suicide, I agree.

 

[nopynono]

"7:55 – 8am Charles is shot.

8:00am (5 min later) estimate of when Lori left the house. This gave Lori time to stop and get breakfast for JJ, (she remembered her purse), eat it and take the 30 min round trip to school, and be back by 8:48am.

8:20am JJ’s school gates open.

8:24am Charles comes to pick up JJ – per Alex’s “about 20 mins ago” statement to officer at 8:44am. *Alternatively if he means 20 mins before he shot him this could be 7:40 am.

8:35am Alex shoots Charles – per his “er, couple of minutes” statement on 911 call. He increases this to 5 minutes when he answers questions outside."

FWIW I would believe the later time. My involvement in this case came from a post on nextdoor. I generally get home from dropping kiddos off at ~8:55. As soon as I got home I saw I had notices on a nextdoor post I had been following about people letting off loud fireworks. It turned out to be Charles' murder. No more than 10 minutes after I checked the thread another poster said they had just driven by the street where Charles was shot and reported a lot of police presence. That's when everyone surmised it was gunshots and not fireworks they heard.